Author Topic: New Forum & News Updates  (Read 2035134 times)

Offline 377

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #945 on: November 09, 2015, 07:41:50 PM »
"Further, do helos fly at night and in the rain and fog?"

Sure. Many are IFR equipped.

Rock promoter Bill Graham's pilot tried that unsuccessfully:

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377
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 07:46:42 PM by 377 »
 

Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #946 on: November 09, 2015, 07:47:06 PM »
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Rock promoter Bill Graham's pilot tried that unsuccessfully:
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377

That accident was 100 percent pilot error.  Helicopters can be flown at night and in IFR safely but you must pay attention to what you are doing just as you need to do with any other aircraft.
 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #947 on: November 09, 2015, 11:32:19 PM »
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Like Snowmman, I dont buy the idea that Scott didn't have a good idea of where they were around the time they thought Cooper bailed, near Woodland. And I think Scott conveyed his info to NWA very quickly; he didn't wait until 1980!  ;)


Georger and Snowmman are correct.  There is no way that Scott could not have had an excellent idea of where the airliner was.  It's part of the crew's job to keep track of that.

The airliner had two VORs, two DMEs, and two ADFs.  They could put various combinations of these instrument indications on the Horizontal Situation Indicators for each of the pilots stations.  Even just a casual glance at the HSIs would mean that they could estimate their positions to within less than about one nautical mile.  And each nautical mile represented less than 20 seconds of flying time.

In a fairly recent speech at an NWA retirees function, Rataczak made some remark like "I made a call over the radio for the controllers to mark their charts/radars."  That was because the crew thought Cooper had just jumped.  This call is nowhere to be seen in the ATC or ARINC transcripts and that means that it was redacted.

+1  :)  BTW I hold out the possibility that engineers at NWA were working with people at McChord and that one or the other, or both working cooperatively, using flight communications data, generated the first 'hand plotted' flight path/drop zone map which was shared with the FBI and became the basis for the searches for Cooper ... the nature of that map and its accuracy is what is debated.

   
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 01:53:06 AM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #948 on: November 10, 2015, 04:09:51 AM »
Ground and Aerial Search Update

I've been re-reading and re-examining what the main authors have had to say about the ground and aerial search in the Ariel-Amboy area.

I'm surprised, pleasantly so, that Himms has the most thorough account. Here's his account:


Himmelsbach
1. 3 am, Thursday, 11.25. 71, leaves PDX for home. After his helo ride earlier in the evening.
2. 9 am, Thursday, begins his own aerial surveillance over LA-Z. Flies for 2.5 hours.
3. mid-afternoon, Thursday, LZ-A is confirmed as the primary LZ.

Note:
4. 11 pm Wednesday, 11. 15. 71. "All available FBI agents in Portland" converge of PDX to begin a "neighborhood search," interviewing cabbies, airport workers, bus drivers, etc.

5. Thanksgiving Day, undisclosed time, Command Center is established at Woodland City Hall. Ground and Air Search is set to commence on Friday, 11.26.71 at 7:30 am.

6. "25 FBI agents, plus several Clark and Cowlitz County deputies, 3 helicopters, and patrol boats on Merwin and Yale Lakes begin searching for traces of the skyjacker on Friday morning."

7. Aerial search hampered on Friday due to rain and fog.

8. Partial clearing on Saturday allows for a resumption of aerial surveillance, but rains return and continue throughout Sunday, rendering any searching on Sunday "useless."

9. Monday, ground and aerial searches are terminated in LZ-A.

10. Monday, a huge aerial search is mounted from Seattle to Reno, utilizing aircraft and crews from three FBI jurisdictions - Seattle, Portland, and Sacramento. Himms flies his own aircraft on the left flank of V-23 along with three helos in the center and another fixed-wing craft on the right. Himms and his team fly from Portland to the California border.


Tosaw:

RT's account is very thin, and very suspect. Here is what he says:

1. Ground and Air search commences at first light on Thanksgiving Day. Searchers slog 13 miles  along the Lewis River, from Woodland to Lake Merwin. However, RT offers NO details on who performed this feat.

2. Bloodhounds are then brought in to "sniff along Victor 23" near Lake Merwin. Again, no details on who performed these duties.


GG


GG has even less to say:

1. On Friday, November 26, 1971, "17 squad cars" arrive at Woodland City Hall. Jurisdictions include Clark, Cowlitz, Lewis and Wahkiakum County Sheriff's departments.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 04:11:36 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #949 on: November 10, 2015, 04:16:44 AM »
Ground and Air Search

Here's my take, from the latest edition of DB Cooper and the FBI:

"As for the ground search, it is unclear when it actually began. 

Even though LZ-A had been tentatively established on the night of the skyjacking, a disturbing gaff had occurred—no road-blocks or check-points in LZ-A had been established. There is no record of them, apparently, nor any mention of who manned them. However, Tosaw reports that the “main roads” between Woodland and Vancouver did have road blocks, but that is outside the main landing zone.

As a result, DB Cooper had at least an eleven-hour head start on his pursers, and probably much more, as the exact start of the ground search and its extent are in doubt.

In his book, Himmelsbach claims the landing zone was not determined until the afternoon of Thanksgiving Day, and that the aerial and ground searches commenced on the following day, Friday, November 26 at 7:30 am, which would have given DB Cooper a 36-hour head start.

But it may have been at least 40 hours, according to Clark County Under-Sheriff Tom McDowell, the man who was actually leading the ground search in LZ-A.

Here's how that happened:

After the skyjacking, the FBI scrambled to interview cabbies, bus drivers and other witnesses at PDX, and to ascertain how DB Cooper got to the airport. The FBI also maintained a command and communication presence at the Woodland City Hall center, which meant the ground search had to be out-sourced to local County Sheriff's deputies and volunteers.

The responsibility for searching for Cooper in LZ-A fell to the Clark County Sheriff's Department, while deputies from Cowlitz County searched north of the Lewis River, and deputies from Lewis and Wahkiakum Counties searched south and east of LZ-A.

As the primary official looking for DB Cooper, I spoke with Tom McDowell in 2012, and again in 2015.
He told me that he had two or three teams of sheriff deputies and volunteers, with each group numbering about five-ten individuals.

 As a result, a total of about 25-30 men went looking for a skyjacker.

“The FBI were not part of any actual team on the ground,” he told me in 2012, adding that the feds were on standby in case the locals found something.

In 2015, McDowell expanded his account and said that his team started searching for Cooper no earlier than Friday, or possibly Saturday.

“I forget the exact day, but I remember it was in the afternoon,” McDowell told me.

Since Cooper had been on the ground since 8:30 pm on Wednesday, the skyjacker had at least a 40-hour head start on the primary group looking for him.

McDowell and his teams focused their search along Cedar Creek Road, the main road west of Amboy and just south of Ariel, and the instructions from the head of the operation, FBI agent Tom Manning, were simple.

“Look for either a parachute or a hole in the ground,” McDowell recounted.

However, the search teams found neither.

McDowell and his teams covered only a small area in LZ-A, perhaps a square mile or so, leaving about 20 square-miles untouched before the FBI shut down the local operations on the Monday after Thanksgiving. Why is unclear, but poor weather may have played a role.

That means McDowell's small team of searchers only covered about 5-10% of LZ-A before they went home.
Supporting this account, Himmelsbach writes in his book that the search in the Ariel-Amboy area was terminated after four days.

Media coverage of the initial search further confirms it was light. Pictures in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer show Manning addressing a roomful of about 20-30 deputies and volunteers at the Bureau’s command post in the Woodland City Hall on Friday, November 26.

But Richard Tosaw writes that the search was much more robust. In his DB Cooper Dead or Alive? he claims that the ground and air search began in earnest at daybreak on Thanksgiving Day. He also says that searchers hiked on foot from Woodland to Lake Merwin, a distance of 13 miles, but, he offers no substantive details on who performed that task.

For his part, Ralph Himmelsbach writes that he climbed into his personal airplane on Thanksgiving morning and surveyed LZ-A for 2.5 hours. The next day, Friday, Himmelsbach writes that the weather was too inclement to continue any reconnaissance.

Nevertheless, the FBI readied six helicopters from local logging companies and two from the Oregon National Guard for their aerial surveillance.

However, the aerial search was severely hampered by rain, fog, and low clouds throughout the weekend. Himmelsbach reported that Saturday had “partial clearing,” which allowed for a resumption of the air search, but the rains came back and stayed throughout Sunday.

On Monday, however, five days after the skyjacking, the FBI mounted a large flotilla of fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters to search Victor-23 in its entirety—from Seattle to Reno, but nothing was found from the skyjacking.

Participating in the effort, Himmelsbach flew the right flank of V-23 from the Washington-Oregon border to the Oregon-California border, while three helicopters and another fixed-winged craft covered the center and right flank of V-23.

 According to Himmelsbach's account in NORJAK, the FBI's primary goal was to spot a parachute snagged on a tree top, but found were none.

With this much uncertainty on who, how and when the search for DB Cooper was conducted, especially in the Ariel-Amboy area, it begs for clarification from Cooper case agent Charlie Farrell. Sadly, though, his 300-page account of his actions in Norjak has never been made public, nor is his family willing to share it, apparently, despite numerous request.

Officially, the FBI discontinued the search at the local level after seven days, and I have been unable to ascertain what, if any, searching was done in the twenty square-miles not examined by McDowell’s team.

Strangely, the FBI suspended their operation in LZ-A due to excessive snow, according to federal records presented by Geoffrey Gray at the 2011 Symposium. However, local residents and Sheriff McDowell say there was no snow in LZ-A over the Thanksgiving weekend, although they've confirmed that snow was present at the higher elevations to the east.

Oddly, the FBI continued looking in snow country after it suspended its official search in the rainy lowlands of  LZ-A, according to a former FBI agent and audience member of the 2011 Cooper symposium, Gary Tallis.

Tallis said he flew as a spotter in a one of the FBI's commandeered helicopters for nearly two weeks after the hijacking—one week past the time the ground and aerial search in Amboy was terminated.

Tallis said he coursed over the snow-covered highlands of the Cascadian foothills in the general area of the Washougal River drainage, and his primary objective was to spot a parachute. None was found.

Further, Tallis, who is a former collegiate skydiver, also told me that he volunteered to recapitulate the Cooper jump over Ariel but his offer was rebuffed by J. Edgar Hoover.

“I felt really disappointed,” Tallis said.

This suggests that the FBI believed that Cooper jumped east of Amboy and into the Washougal River drainage. Perhaps they concentrated their search efforts there while sending the local cops, looky-loo’s, and the press on a wild-goose chase in LZ-A.

Nevertheless, a second ground search was conducted four months later, beginning in March 1972 and stretching into April, and employing over two-hundred soldiers from Fort Lewis to search the Ariel-Amboy area.

But Amboy resident Margaret Culp told me this second ground search appeared haphazard, as it began with a helicopter full of FBI agents landing in her pasture and asking for directions, apparently not knowing where they were. They also interrogated her son as a suspect because he had the temerity to photograph the agents tromping through the neighborhood.

Despite all this searching nothing has been found, and this is the quintessential fact of the DB Cooper case.
“We didn’t even find so much as a belt-buckle,” one FBI agent allegedly muttered.

Nevertheless, some items from Flight 305 were retrieved eventually.

A Boeing placard on how to deploy a 727’s aft stairs was found several years after the skyjacking in the woods east of Castle Rock, Washington, about thirty miles north of Ariel. It is believed to have been from Flight 305, as Boeing acknowledged that when they repaired the aft stairs on Cooper’s plane it was missing its instructional laminate from a protective sleeve mounted on the doorway.

Also, Cooper left his clip-on tie lying on a seat, along with eight cigarette butts in the ash tray and an array of partial fingerprints—all of which were recovered in Reno.

Then in February 1980, an eight-year old boy found three bundles of Cooper's twenties at Tina Bar on the Columbia River, five miles northwest of Vancouver, Washington and twenty miles southwest of Ariel.

But that’s it. No body, no parachutes, no bomb, no briefcase, and no paper sack. Not a single twenty scattered in the woods was ever found despite the thousands of seekers who combed the woods looking for a valuable souvenir.

Clearly, we’ve got a mystery."


« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 04:19:19 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #950 on: November 10, 2015, 12:20:08 PM »
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Clearly, we’ve got a mystery.


The only thing we clearly have is conflicting statements.  So put them on a shelf somewhere and concentrate on the facts.

And there are only two uncontested facts.  They are the location where the placard was found (see Tom Kaye's web page for the GPS coordinates) and the location where the money was found (Tina Bar, with the GPS coordinates also given on Tom Kaye's web page).

As things stand today, you must START with these two facts and work backwards to determine the jump location.  That is why the flight path must be known with accuracy.

At this time, everything else is just commentary, opinions, BS, or worse. :)
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 12:27:43 PM by Robert99 »
 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #951 on: November 10, 2015, 12:44:47 PM »
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Ground and Air Search

Here's my take, from the latest edition of DB Cooper and the FBI:

"As for the ground search, it is unclear when it actually began. 

Even though LZ-A had been tentatively established on the night of the skyjacking, a disturbing gaff had occurred—no road-blocks or check-points in LZ-A had been established. There is no record of them, apparently, nor any mention of who manned them. However, Tosaw reports that the “main roads” between Woodland and Vancouver did have road blocks, but that is outside the main landing zone.

As a result, DB Cooper had at least an eleven-hour head start on his pursers, and probably much more, as the exact start of the ground search and its extent are in doubt.

In his book, Himmelsbach claims the landing zone was not determined until the afternoon of Thanksgiving Day, and that the aerial and ground searches commenced on the following day, Friday, November 26 at 7:30 am, which would have given DB Cooper a 36-hour head start.

But it may have been at least 40 hours, according to Clark County Under-Sheriff Tom McDowell, the man who was actually leading the ground search in LZ-A.

Here's how that happened:

After the skyjacking, the FBI scrambled to interview cabbies, bus drivers and other witnesses at PDX, and to ascertain how DB Cooper got to the airport. The FBI also maintained a command and communication presence at the Woodland City Hall center, which meant the ground search had to be out-sourced to local County Sheriff's deputies and volunteers.

The responsibility for searching for Cooper in LZ-A fell to the Clark County Sheriff's Department, while deputies from Cowlitz County searched north of the Lewis River, and deputies from Lewis and Wahkiakum Counties searched south and east of LZ-A.

As the primary official looking for DB Cooper, I spoke with Tom McDowell in 2012, and again in 2015.
He told me that he had two or three teams of sheriff deputies and volunteers, with each group numbering about five-ten individuals.

 As a result, a total of about 25-30 men went looking for a skyjacker.

“The FBI were not part of any actual team on the ground,” he told me in 2012, adding that the feds were on standby in case the locals found something.

In 2015, McDowell expanded his account and said that his team started searching for Cooper no earlier than Friday, or possibly Saturday.

“I forget the exact day, but I remember it was in the afternoon,” McDowell told me.

Since Cooper had been on the ground since 8:30 pm on Wednesday, the skyjacker had at least a 40-hour head start on the primary group looking for him.

McDowell and his teams focused their search along Cedar Creek Road, the main road west of Amboy and just south of Ariel, and the instructions from the head of the operation, FBI agent Tom Manning, were simple.

“Look for either a parachute or a hole in the ground,” McDowell recounted.

However, the search teams found neither.

McDowell and his teams covered only a small area in LZ-A, perhaps a square mile or so, leaving about 20 square-miles untouched before the FBI shut down the local operations on the Monday after Thanksgiving. Why is unclear, but poor weather may have played a role.

That means McDowell's small team of searchers only covered about 5-10% of LZ-A before they went home.
Supporting this account, Himmelsbach writes in his book that the search in the Ariel-Amboy area was terminated after four days.

Media coverage of the initial search further confirms it was light. Pictures in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer show Manning addressing a roomful of about 20-30 deputies and volunteers at the Bureau’s command post in the Woodland City Hall on Friday, November 26.

But Richard Tosaw writes that the search was much more robust. In his DB Cooper Dead or Alive? he claims that the ground and air search began in earnest at daybreak on Thanksgiving Day. He also says that searchers hiked on foot from Woodland to Lake Merwin, a distance of 13 miles, but, he offers no substantive details on who performed that task.

For his part, Ralph Himmelsbach writes that he climbed into his personal airplane on Thanksgiving morning and surveyed LZ-A for 2.5 hours. The next day, Friday, Himmelsbach writes that the weather was too inclement to continue any reconnaissance.

Nevertheless, the FBI readied six helicopters from local logging companies and two from the Oregon National Guard for their aerial surveillance.

However, the aerial search was severely hampered by rain, fog, and low clouds throughout the weekend. Himmelsbach reported that Saturday had “partial clearing,” which allowed for a resumption of the air search, but the rains came back and stayed throughout Sunday.

On Monday, however, five days after the skyjacking, the FBI mounted a large flotilla of fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters to search Victor-23 in its entirety—from Seattle to Reno, but nothing was found from the skyjacking.

Participating in the effort, Himmelsbach flew the right flank of V-23 from the Washington-Oregon border to the Oregon-California border, while three helicopters and another fixed-winged craft covered the center and right flank of V-23.

 According to Himmelsbach's account in NORJAK, the FBI's primary goal was to spot a parachute snagged on a tree top, but found were none.

With this much uncertainty on who, how and when the search for DB Cooper was conducted, especially in the Ariel-Amboy area, it begs for clarification from Cooper case agent Charlie Farrell. Sadly, though, his 300-page account of his actions in Norjak has never been made public, nor is his family willing to share it, apparently, despite numerous request.

Officially, the FBI discontinued the search at the local level after seven days, and I have been unable to ascertain what, if any, searching was done in the twenty square-miles not examined by McDowell’s team.

Strangely, the FBI suspended their operation in LZ-A due to excessive snow, according to federal records presented by Geoffrey Gray at the 2011 Symposium. However, local residents and Sheriff McDowell say there was no snow in LZ-A over the Thanksgiving weekend, although they've confirmed that snow was present at the higher elevations to the east.

Oddly, the FBI continued looking in snow country after it suspended its official search in the rainy lowlands of  LZ-A, according to a former FBI agent and audience member of the 2011 Cooper symposium, Gary Tallis.

Tallis said he flew as a spotter in a one of the FBI's commandeered helicopters for nearly two weeks after the hijacking—one week past the time the ground and aerial search in Amboy was terminated.

Tallis said he coursed over the snow-covered highlands of the Cascadian foothills in the general area of the Washougal River drainage, and his primary objective was to spot a parachute. None was found.

Further, Tallis, who is a former collegiate skydiver, also told me that he volunteered to recapitulate the Cooper jump over Ariel but his offer was rebuffed by J. Edgar Hoover.

“I felt really disappointed,” Tallis said.

This suggests that the FBI believed that Cooper jumped east of Amboy and into the Washougal River drainage. Perhaps they concentrated their search efforts there while sending the local cops, looky-loo’s, and the press on a wild-goose chase in LZ-A.

Nevertheless, a second ground search was conducted four months later, beginning in March 1972 and stretching into April, and employing over two-hundred soldiers from Fort Lewis to search the Ariel-Amboy area.

But Amboy resident Margaret Culp told me this second ground search appeared haphazard, as it began with a helicopter full of FBI agents landing in her pasture and asking for directions, apparently not knowing where they were. They also interrogated her son as a suspect because he had the temerity to photograph the agents tromping through the neighborhood.

Despite all this searching nothing has been found, and this is the quintessential fact of the DB Cooper case.
“We didn’t even find so much as a belt-buckle,” one FBI agent allegedly muttered.

Nevertheless, some items from Flight 305 were retrieved eventually.

A Boeing placard on how to deploy a 727’s aft stairs was found several years after the skyjacking in the woods east of Castle Rock, Washington, about thirty miles north of Ariel. It is believed to have been from Flight 305, as Boeing acknowledged that when they repaired the aft stairs on Cooper’s plane it was missing its instructional laminate from a protective sleeve mounted on the doorway.

Also, Cooper left his clip-on tie lying on a seat, along with eight cigarette butts in the ash tray and an array of partial fingerprints—all of which were recovered in Reno.

Then in February 1980, an eight-year old boy found three bundles of Cooper's twenties at Tina Bar on the Columbia River, five miles northwest of Vancouver, Washington and twenty miles southwest of Ariel.

But that’s it. No body, no parachutes, no bomb, no briefcase, and no paper sack. Not a single twenty scattered in the woods was ever found despite the thousands of seekers who combed the woods looking for a valuable souvenir.

Clearly, we’ve got a mystery."

How was all of this being coordinated - by who?

 
 

Offline 377

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #952 on: November 10, 2015, 12:51:11 PM »
Bruce wrote: "Oddly, the FBI continued looking in snow country after it suspended its official search in the rainy lowlands of  LZ-A, according to a former FBI agent and audience member of the 2011 Cooper symposium, Gary Tallis.

Tallis said he flew as a spotter in a one of the FBI's commandeered helicopters for nearly two weeks after the hijacking—one week past the time the ground and aerial search in Amboy was terminated.

Tallis said he coursed over the snow-covered highlands of the Cascadian foothills in the general area of the Washougal River drainage, and his primary objective was to spot a parachute. None was found.

Further, Tallis, who is a former collegiate skydiver, also told me that he volunteered to recapitulate the Cooper jump over Ariel but his offer was rebuffed by J. Edgar Hoover.

“I felt really disappointed,” Tallis said."

I remember retired FBI SA Gary Tallis's account at the symposium. I found it very interesting that he recalled searching from the air long after the official search was terminated. I don't recall him mentioning that he was a skydiver. Was that info presented at the symposium?

I do recall him implying that the estimated LZ terrain was not especially hazardous. He made it sound pretty benign when I chatted with him. If he was a skydiver his LZ hazards opinion carries extra weight with me. Whuffos see a forest or field of boulders and and think no prob, you could just land in one of the abundant clear spots between the trees or rocks.

I wonder if the FBI thought Cooper might attend? There were a two guys in the audience that never chatted with anyone and had a distinct "fed" look.  ;) Did you notice them Bruce? They circulated but didn't converse. I saw them glance at each other and smile when Marla took the stage. Was it her striking looks or had they already read a post interview briefing? Probably just civilians, but what's a Cooper party without some conspiracy paranoia?

377
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 12:53:27 PM by 377 »
 

Offline 377

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #953 on: November 10, 2015, 05:36:37 PM »
Noted parachute expert and author Dan Poynter has died. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Dan literally wrote the book on parachute hardware. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Want to know about Cooper chutes? NB 8, NB 6 and C 9 info? It's all in his book.

377

 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #954 on: November 10, 2015, 11:57:25 PM »
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Noted parachute expert and author Dan Poynter has died. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Dan literally wrote the book on parachute hardware. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Want to know about Cooper chutes? NB 8, NB 6 and C 9 info? It's all in his book.

377

Sorry to hear this. He was a nice guy. A good researcher.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 12:02:17 AM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #955 on: November 11, 2015, 02:19:17 AM »
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Bruce wrote: "Oddly, the FBI continued looking in snow country after it suspended its official search in the rainy lowlands of  LZ-A, according to a former FBI agent and audience member of the 2011 Cooper symposium, Gary Tallis.

Tallis said he flew as a spotter in a one of the FBI's commandeered helicopters for nearly two weeks after the hijacking—one week past the time the ground and aerial search in Amboy was terminated.

Tallis said he coursed over the snow-covered highlands of the Cascadian foothills in the general area of the Washougal River drainage, and his primary objective was to spot a parachute. None was found.

Further, Tallis, who is a former collegiate skydiver, also told me that he volunteered to recapitulate the Cooper jump over Ariel but his offer was rebuffed by J. Edgar Hoover.

“I felt really disappointed,” Tallis said."

I remember retired FBI SA Gary Tallis's account at the symposium. I found it very interesting that he recalled searching from the air long after the official search was terminated. I don't recall him mentioning that he was a skydiver. Was that info presented at the symposium?

I do recall him implying that the estimated LZ terrain was not especially hazardous. He made it sound pretty benign when I chatted with him. If he was a skydiver his LZ hazards opinion carries extra weight with me. Whuffos see a forest or field of boulders and and think no prob, you could just land in one of the abundant clear spots between the trees or rocks.

I wonder if the FBI thought Cooper might attend? There were a two guys in the audience that never chatted with anyone and had a distinct "fed" look.  ;) Did you notice them Bruce? They circulated but didn't converse. I saw them glance at each other and smile when Marla took the stage. Was it her striking looks or had they already read a post interview briefing? Probably just civilians, but what's a Cooper party without some conspiracy paranoia?

377

Gary never spoke in any official capacity as a Symposium 2011 participant. Rather, everything we have from Gary was gathered by informal chats, or from his questions that he asked from the audience. The former is how I learned about his skydiving experiences.

As for the feddie-teddies, Three, I didn't see them. Smirky suits and Marla - how did I miss 'em?!! I blame it all on Mooshie, again.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 02:32:38 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #956 on: November 11, 2015, 02:25:13 AM »
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Ground and Air Search

How was all of this being coordinated - by who?

Short answer: I don't know.

Longer answer: I would guess Tom Manning, FBI agent from the satellite office in Kelso/Vancouver (?) who organized the meetings at the Woodland City Hall.

Longest answer: The chain of command in incidents like this is very important. How involved was Charlie Farrell? How well did he coordinate activities with Julius Mattson in Portland? This level of understanding is not available at the moment - not until we have access to more information and agents, such as Farrell's book, or Eng's assistance with the documents.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2015, 02:31:34 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #957 on: November 11, 2015, 02:31:09 AM »
Georger, Re: Your question on the ground search:

Since "who" is preceded by the preposition "by," the proper form of the object would be "whom." For instance: "Who coordinated the ground search." Or, "The ground search was coordinated by whom?"
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #958 on: November 11, 2015, 02:34:01 AM »
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Noted parachute expert and author Dan Poynter has died. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Dan literally wrote the book on parachute hardware. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Want to know about Cooper chutes? NB 8, NB 6 and C 9 info? It's all in his book.

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So, what did he know about Cooper's chutes, Three? Or are you saying he was knowledgeable about the NB-8, 6 and C-9, in general?
 

Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #959 on: November 11, 2015, 10:53:47 AM »
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Georger, Re: Your question on the ground search:

Since "who" is preceded by the preposition "by," the proper form of the object would be "whom." For instance: "Who coordinated the ground search." Or, "The ground search was coordinated by whom?"

Bruce, You have found your calling.  Perhaps Shutter will appoint you the official editor for this site.  Then we can set some new standards here for high literary quality web pages.  Interested?