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[Shutter]

I don't want anyone who is connected to this case that was killed to be referred to as "whacked" . I really don't care about your personal thoughts about Cossey. what I care about is what is said on this forum. I don't want the Cossey family reading something like this. I know all about his deception, but that doesn't call for a death sentence as 377 pointed out.

End of story...

[Bruce A. Smith]

As you wish.

[georger]

I don't want anyone who is connected to this case that was killed to be referred to as "whacked" . I really don't care about your personal thoughts about Cossey. what I care about is what is said on this forum. I don't want the Cossey family reading something like this. I know all about his deception, but that doesn't call for a death sentence as 377 pointed out.

End of story...

All that really matters HERE! is Cossey's factual connection to the Cooper case - his personal life was another matter so far as it doesn't reflect itself in his Cooper life. 

[Bruce A. Smith]

I thought I was addressing Cossey's relationship in Norjak. His deceitfulness is a major factor, and it impacts the FBI's credibility enormously.

The verb I used to describe his manner of death is all that is in question, as far as I know. No? Or am I missing something?

[georger]

I thought I was addressing Cossey's relationship in Norjak. His deceitfulness is a major factor, and it impacts the FBI's credibility enormously.

The verb I used to describe his manner of death is all that is in question, as far as I know. No? Or am I missing something?

The facts speak for themselves. It was your job to present the facts - not a psychoanalysis, mind purging, moral dialectical neo zoom blastoma, or any other dystopian melodrama (over one guy who hung up on you and didnt want to deal with you...!

How was his deceitfulness a major factor?

How did his deceitfulness 'impacts the FBI's credibility enormously'?

Have I left anything out?  (the orbits of the galaxies and the Apocalypse perhaps) ?

 

Oh! The drahma of it all! Maybe you are over-reacting, again? Is Queen Latifah in the third act!?

[Bruce A. Smith]

I only presented facts about Earl Cossey. I added some personal interpretations for friends to understand how I perceive him, how I perceive my actions, and what kinds of attitudes I have towards death and what responsibility I might have to Cossey's family by posting here.

How dare you mock me, Georger. You are such a jerk. Worse, you are a maddening fool because you have an opportunity to tell us so much more than you do - you are an insufferable wannabee - with your Element "X" in the sediments, and consistently refusing to explain my questions to you about FBI behaviors over the years. You have knowledge and answers, and yet you squander it, repeatedly. You can't even tell us what the element is? It's gotta be kept a secret? Really?

But I will try one more time to get into your thick skull about your beloved FBI and the late Mr. Earl Cossey

Cossey worked for the FBI. He was their parachute and skydiving expert. His impact was considerable. He is in their documents detailing his role.

Initially, Cossey told his family that Cooper made it, and Cossey helped the FBI understand the skills necessary to do the Cooper jump.  The feds apparently agreed with his assessment and ceased looking for professional skydivers. But they held onto their view that Cooper was a master criminal. Himms said that the bomb was a "game changer," and that Cooper had the upper hand in the early days of the investigation.

Then Cossey flip-flopped, and said Cooper was a whuffo who no-pulled and died. The FBI then flip-flopped, too, as Cossey and the FBI made parallel announcements for decades that Cooper couldn't have made it because he used lousy chute - Cossey's NB6 or NB-8, depending on what day you talked with Cossey - it was too tough a jump, too cold, even though other hijackers jumped in snow/winter/Colorado/higher elevations/faster speeds, etc. They all made it, but not Cooper.

Hence, it is fair to say that Cossey mis-led the FBI and they mis-perceived DB Cooper. Or, they needed a new spin story and Cossey gave them the ammunition/story line to make the Cooper-didn't-make-it-scenario somewhat plausible to researchers and reporters who didn't look too closely at the facts. 

Worse, Cossey was a chronic liar. He owned the chutes? Really? He sent them to the wrong airport? Really? Does a guy like this make the FBI look good in their choice to embrace Cossey as their go-to-guy for chute questions?

So, what say you?

- Cossey's lying was irrelevant?
- Cossey's assistance to the FBI was irrelevant?

You say the facts speak for themselves. Okay. Then what are the facts that are speaking to you? And what are they saying?

Have I left anything out, buster?

[sailshaw]

Bruce:  I second what you say to Georger and you have done a good job of putting him down. Now Georger might do a better job in helping to solve this case.
+++++
Bob Sailshaw
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[Robert99]

You say the facts speak for themselves. Okay. Then what are the facts that are speaking to you? And what are they saying?

Bruce, Basically there are just two meaningful "facts" that MUST be explained in connection with the Cooper hijacking as it stands today.  They are the money at Tina Bar and the placard from the airliner.  Determining how they got to where they were found are the big questions that will resolve the matter.  It is highly unlikely that any further traces of Cooper, or anything directly related to him, will be found. 

Everything else is commentary at this point.  The FBI/Cossey press releases and all the books written on the hijacking, including your own, don't mean anything in the cosmic scheme of things.  Only physical evidence is relevant.   

[Robert99]

Bruce:  I second what you say to Georger and you have done a good job of putting him down. Now Georger might do a better job in helping to solve this case.
+++++
Bob Sailshaw
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

And you might do a better job in helping to solve this case if you would stick to facts instead of fairy tales.

[georger]

I only presented facts about Earl Cossey. I added some personal interpretations for friends to understand how I perceive him, how I perceive my actions, and what kinds of attitudes I have towards death and what responsibility I might have to Cossey's family by posting here.

How dare you mock me, Georger. You are such a jerk. Worse, you are a maddening fool because you have an opportunity to tell us so much more than you do - you are an insufferable wannabee - with your Element "X" in the sediments, and consistently refusing to explain my questions to you about FBI behaviors over the years. You have knowledge and answers, and yet you squander it, repeatedly. You can't even tell us what the element is? It's gotta be kept a secret? Really?

But I will try one more time to get into your thick skull about your beloved FBI and the late Mr. Earl Cossey

Cossey worked for the FBI. He was their parachute and skydiving expert. His impact was considerable. He is in their documents detailing his role.

Initially, Cossey told his family that Cooper made it, and Cossey helped the FBI understand the skills necessary to do the Cooper jump.  The feds apparently agreed with his assessment and ceased looking for professional skydivers. But they held onto their view that Cooper was a master criminal. Himms said that the bomb was a "game changer," and that Cooper had the upper hand in the early days of the investigation.

Then Cossey flip-flopped, and said Cooper was a whuffo who no-pulled and died. The FBI then flip-flopped, too, as Cossey and the FBI made parallel announcements for decades that Cooper couldn't have made it because he used lousy chute - Cossey's NB6 or NB-8, depending on what day you talked with Cossey - it was too tough a jump, too cold, even though other hijackers jumped in snow/winter/Colorado/higher elevations/faster speeds, etc. They all made it, but not Cooper.

Hence, it is fair to say that Cossey mis-led the FBI and they mis-perceived DB Cooper. Or, they needed a new spin story and Cossey gave them the ammunition/story line to make the Cooper-didn't-make-it-scenario somewhat plausible to researchers and reporters who didn't look too closely at the facts. 

Worse, Cossey was a chronic liar. He owned the chutes? Really? He sent them to the wrong airport? Really? Does a guy like this make the FBI look good in their choice to embrace Cossey as their go-to-guy for chute questions?

So, what say you?

- Cossey's lying was irrelevant?
- Cossey's assistance to the FBI was irrelevant?

You say the facts speak for themselves. Okay. Then what are the facts that are speaking to you? And what are they saying?

Have I left anything out, buster?

Buster?   

Nothing I can say will change anything you do. 

[georger]

Bruce:  I second what you say to Georger and you have done a good job of putting him down. Now Georger might do a better job in helping to solve this case.
+++++
Bob Sailshaw
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Georger might do a better job in helping to solve this case.

Nothing I can say will change anything you do.
 

 

[georger]

You say the facts speak for themselves. Okay. Then what are the facts that are speaking to you? And what are they saying?

Bruce, Basically there are just two meaningful "facts" that MUST be explained in connection with the Cooper hijacking as it stands today.  They are the money at Tina Bar and the placard from the airliner.  Determining how they got to where they were found are the big questions that will resolve the matter.  It is highly unlikely that any further traces of Cooper, or anything directly related to him, will be found. 

Everything else is commentary at this point.  The FBI/Cossey press releases and all the books written on the hijacking, including your own, don't mean anything in the cosmic scheme of things.  Only physical evidence is relevant.

+1   

[Shutter]

Ok, everyone done taking pokes at each other? lets stay on track with the case, and less of this "You are such a jerk"

Shutter

[georger]

Ok, everyone done taking pokes at each other? lets stay on track with the case, and less of this "You are such a jerk"

Shutter

+1     I see Sailshaw's case for Peterson as essentially stalled. There is nothing any of us can do, so far as I know, to convince the FBI to do genetic testing on the stamps that Sail has been asking for, for years. When such testing happens I stand ready to offer an educated opinion, or even bring experts here to offer interpretation. Until that time all I can do is sit here and read people's renderings of the basic facts in the case, and comment or not comment. If that adds up to 'obstruction', then Im in the same boat with a lot of other people.

The same applies to Bruce Smith's enterprise. I sit here and watch and read and read and read, and while I don't agree with many of Smith's interpretations (or claims of people's motives), I am often befuddled in the confusion and claims being generated. The best I can offer is 'sometimes less is more'!

To assume as Bruce is assuming, that one person, Earl Cossey, infected the whole FBI like a virus in a major hijacking case and reduced armies of FBI agents to the status  of corrupt mindless drones staggering around like zombies ... this is a leap of fantasy I can't follow and don't see warranted! That sounds more like a personal grudge being vented than research to me! I can't see how that kind of flame throwing provides any clarity or helps solve questions in the DB Cooper case. Am I missing something?       

   

[Bruce A. Smith]

What are facts?

We seem to disagree, even though this is commonly thought as a "given."

Some facts are in a safe area:

1. The Money - okay. General agreement as to importance of this finding.
2. Placard - okay. Again, generally accepted as an importance piece of evidence.

Not so safe:

3. Actions of the FBI? not so much, according to some. Others give it credence. Is it a "fact"? Hmmmm, depends on whom you talk to, what specific actions are cited, etc.
4. Lying by principals in the investigation, lost evidence, lack of critical action-such as giving DB Cooper a head start of at least 11 hours and probably more, only sending 20 guys into the woods to look for Cooper, silence in the face of questioning/stonewalling/refusal to attend public hearings, etc., smudged fingerprint retrieval, inability of all parties in Reno to remember the clip-on tie, including Tina, etc. Again, some say this is unimportant. Others say it does have some weight. But is it a fact? Maybe, according to some.

Research Quandary:
5. Cultural goggles of researchers. Some researchers claim certain information is fact. Other researchers deny that those pieces of evidence are in fact, Facts, and mock the first set of researchers for being Drahma Queens.

Summation:
So, we have reached a crossroads at the Forum. Some folks say only certain pieces of evidence are facts. Others challenge that perspective and are chided.

Further, some researchers refuse to answer specific questions directed to them at the Forum, often having to do with the FBI. As a result, we have an investigatory failure here. We don't know what facts are facts, and some fact-deniers refuse to talk about their denials.

Conclusion:
Where do we go from here, eh?