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[Bruce A. Smith]

As always, it's a pleasure to be emasculated by your technical knowledge. But I would point out, even Rataczak describes his flight path as "connect the dots" (and he makes a sort of zig-zag motion with his hand) in his talk.

It's always a pleasure to see others get emasculated from time to time, too!  And smile about it!!!

[georger]

Does anyone think there is even a remote possibility that Brian Ingram's parent put the money there for their young son to "innocently" find?

It seems so unlikely that Brian's seemingly random dig for a campfire pit at Tina Bar would immediately uncover the loot.

It's one of the few explanations I can think of that explains two seemingly unlikely events:

1. The presence of the money at Tina bar
2. The discovery of the money at Tina bar.

377

The whole world has seen the condition of the money after the found bundles were broken apart by the Ingrams, then taken and displayed on the table at the FBI news conference with the Ingrams, only a few days after the nearly cemented money bundle had been found. Those nearly cemented groups of bills were then further separated and examined by the FBI lab. Tom Kaye is well aware of these true basic facts!  Carr even provided us with a lab report certifying the process/facts

Now do those decayed bills look to you like they were taken to Tina Bar and planted by anyone just the day or even a week before! ?

If they do - you need glasses. So much for your conspiracy theories and socalled thinking outside the box - stay in the box.

  

ps: The above is just the beginning of problems for any 'plant' theory. By thinking in the box we quickly encounter other issues of substance. Here's one.

How could money stored elsewhere than Tina Bar magically in a short space of time come up with exactly the same elemental signature as exists on Tina Bar!?  That's a trick all forgers would like to know and be able to pull off. In the real world you have multi-million dollar paintings that forgers can't duplicate to that degree of accuracy! But the planter of money at Tina Bar was able to pull that piece of magic off? That is, duplicate very precisely what is very likely a specific (unique) elemental signature, between the money and Tina Bar, and nowhere else on Earth!

Hmmm. 

And there is a list of similar such incredible coincidences any plant-conspiracy theory must account for, in the realworld! And, we have only started thinking in the box! about this issue, if you actually want your plant theory to be taken seriously. All propeller theories aside, we live in the real world and must account for things in the box, in the real world. The box is large! 

     

[377]

All good points Georger. But do you know that the elemental signature was unique to just Tina Bar? What if more loot was found some place down river a bit?  How far from Tina bar would you have to go to get a noticeably different signature? Just thinking. I don't want to confined to the box just yet.

Brian's first dig loot find just seems incredibly unlikely. Not impossible, of course, you can win the lottery on your first ticket.

What is your conclusion about the purported currency shard debris field? Was it there or not there? 

377

[andrade1812]

As always, it's a pleasure to be emasculated by your technical knowledge.

If you are interested in learning about aircraft navigation, the FAA has a number of excellent publications that can be downloaded without charge from their web page.  I highly recommend the FAA publications.  And I get the impression that you could benefit from studying some of them.

Jokes's on you, Mr. 99, my copy of "William F Buckley's Celestial Navigation Made Easy" arrived in the mail yesterday. 

[Robert99]

As always, it's a pleasure to be emasculated by your technical knowledge.

If you are interested in learning about aircraft navigation, the FAA has a number of excellent publications that can be downloaded without charge from their web page.  I highly recommend the FAA publications.  And I get the impression that you could benefit from studying some of them.

Jokes's on you, Mr. 99, my copy of "William F Buckley's Celestial Navigation Made Easy" arrived in the mail yesterday. 

That's a good start.  But don't feel "emasculated" when I tell you that I have about 20 books on Celestial Navigation alone.  Further, I have an unknown number of books (the number is higher than I can count and more than the number of fingers and toes that I have) on aircraft navigation, land navigation, etc., etc., and I think they are more applicable to the Cooper hijacking matter.

If I remember correctly, the late William F. Buckley's Celestial Navigation package includes a DVD among other things.  It should be a comprehensive study.

Are you a blue water sailor?   

[georger]

All good points Georger. But do you know that the elemental signature was unique to just Tina Bar? What if more loot was found some place down river a bit?  How far from Tina bar would you have to go to get a noticeably different signature? Just thinking. I don't want to confined to the box just yet.

Brian's first dig loot find just seems incredibly unlikely. Not impossible, of course, you can win the lottery on your first ticket.

What is your conclusion about the purported currency shard debris field? Was it there or not there? 

377

Theoretically, every environment has unique finger prints in one or more ways.  Things pulled from an environment may show traits of the environment they came from. See my past posts about USGS input on this issue and uniqueness of Tina Bar.

I think Brian's discovery was amazingly serendipitous, from his point of view and that of the family. However there are other points of view one has to consider. Obviously the money got there somehow and if we knew those facts Brian's discovery might appear more probable, or possibly even less probable depending on the facts. Something accounts for the fact there was Cooper money there at all. Something also accounts for the missing 90-96 bundles not being there with the very decayed bundles that were found there.     

People who excavated the bar announced they were finding fragments etc. They also said the fragments were bagged in 'evidence bags' and sealed, and sent to Washington DC. which may explain why no frags (as well as files and other evidence in the Cooper case) was not present in the Seattle office for Gray and Kaye to inspect decades later. Maybe Gray and Kaye should go to Washington DC and look there?

[andrade1812]

As always, it's a pleasure to be emasculated by your technical knowledge.

If you are interested in learning about aircraft navigation, the FAA has a number of excellent publications that can be downloaded without charge from their web page.  I highly recommend the FAA publications.  And I get the impression that you could benefit from studying some of them.

Jokes's on you, Mr. 99, my copy of "William F Buckley's Celestial Navigation Made Easy" arrived in the mail yesterday. 

That's a good start.  But don't feel "emasculated" when I tell you that I have about 20 books on Celestial Navigation alone.  Further, I have an unknown number of books (the number is higher than I can count and more than the number of fingers and toes that I have) on aircraft navigation, land navigation, etc., etc., and I think they are more applicable to the Cooper hijacking matter.

If I remember correctly, the late William F. Buckley's Celestial Navigation package includes a DVD among other things.  It should be a comprehensive study.

Are you a blue water sailor?   

Sadly no, though Lake Superior is a fine substitute.

As for the topic at hand, I'm here to learn.

[377]

I fished tuna commercially between Midway Island and Japan in the late 70s. We were often beyond LORAN range and there was no GPS. Sometimes boats in our fleet could get OMEGA VLF fixes, but we didn't have an OMEGA receiver. Most of the time we relied on my celestial nav. Mostly noon sun shots but occasional night star shots when the persistent overcast cleared up. I used a cheap but durable Davis plastic sextant and 3 dirt cheap digital watches that I synched with the time count on WWV (NBS shortwave station) every day. We didn't care too much where we were as long as we were on tuna schools. The nav was done mostly to avoid reefs and other hazards. When heading for unloading in Hawaii then navigation became more important. As we got closer to civilization we started picking up LORAN signals and I put the sextant away.

The price of really nice brass sextants has plummeted with the advent of GPS. I toy with the idea of buying one as a display piece. My plastic Davis sextant just doesn't have much visual appeal.

Off topic? Guilty as charged your honor.

I sure wish somebody would interview Sheridan Peterson before he dies. Why did he say stupid things like a flashlight would have helped Cooper land?  He knows better. I've made night jumps and a 1970s flashlight would have been useless. Perhaps a modern 1000 lumen LED flashlight with lithium batteries would have been of some use but certainly not the old flashlights.

Has anyone checked to see if Norman was using pure titanium and bizmuth in his machine shop prior to the skyjack? If his rigs were kept at the shop, or he transferred shavings from his own clothing, perhaps the rigs had traces and Cooper tie-tanium came from contact with Normans rigs, not DBC's day job. Bruce, do you think you might be able to get this info from Norman? Bizmuth was used in certain kinds of machining.

377

[Bruce A. Smith]

Norman refuse to take my phone calls, nor does he answer my emails. Nor does Marianne Hayden, who says her brother Norman is a bullshitter.

But Bobby B says that he and Norman are buddies, so maybe you should call the toilet bowl cleaner. He seems to have more pull than I in this regard. Need his phone number? Oops, I can't find it. Georger has it, I believe...

[Bruce A. Smith]

Travel Channel Documentary

We've got another one, folks!  A sweet young thing named Jennifer called me this week, asking "what's new in Norjak," and wondering if I had any juicy tidbits that a TC host named "Josh Somebody" could sink his teeth into, sometime in January.

As a result, I decided to work up a Road Trip Through Cooper Country itinerary to present to Jennifer and Josh.

Here's what I've got so far. Any additions? Suggestions?




Road Trip Through Cooper Country


Come take an adventure-filled road trip with me through the heartland of DB Cooper's World, exploring the mysteries and oddities of this remarkable skyjacking! I will escort through all the hot-spots of the DB Cooper investigation - exploring where the suspects slept, confessions were offered, evidence was found, planes parked and investigators partied!

Sure, you've seen Tina Bar, where the money was found, or even Ariel Tavern where the DB Cooper Days festival is held annually on Thanksgiving Day weekend.

But I can give you so much more!

1.  The spot on Lake Camas where DB Cooper walked out of the woods, according to Jo Weber, who says her husband, Duane, pointed to the spot before he confessed to being Cooper in 1995.

2.  Walk the promenade at the Red Lion Inn in Vancouver where in 1979 Duane allegedly through the $5,800 in twenties, wrapped in a brown paper sack, into the Columbia River, only to be found five months later downstream at Tina Bar!

2.  See the tarmac at Thun Field where Barb Dayton, the first person to confess publicly to being DB Cooper, parked her Cessna 140 and told her fellow pilots she was the skyjacker in 1978.

3.  Plus, view the public restroom where Barb switched from using the men's side to the women's side after her gender-reassignment surgery in 1969!

4.  Visit the hazelnut grove in Woodburn, Oregon where Barb said she landed after parachuting away from Flight 305. Inspect the cistern where she said she buried the money before transferring it to Tina Bar in 1980.

5.  Then, we'll motor three miles down Mud Pudding Road to the mansion of Cooper case agent in Portland, Ralph Himmelsbach. We'll gaze on his quarter-mile causeway to his stone, silver and turquoise mansion sitting amidst 40 acres of tulip splendor!

6.  Next, we scoot down to Eugene, Oregon and see where primary witness, Tina Muckow, secluded herself for 30 years, refusing to talk to anyone about the skyjacking. First, we'll see the Carmelite monastery where Tina resided for 12 years even though the Mother Superior has allegedly said “Tina never really fit in here.”

7.  Then we can tour the neighborhoods of Eugene where Tina moved – just a few blocks away from where the key witness, Billy Mitchell, lived as a college student.

8.  After that, we can head to the northern reaches of Eugene and see where the FBI's “most promising suspect,” LD Cooper, died in the arms of a professional Santa Claus, Dale Miller, at the latter's haven for ex-cons and alcohol rehabbers in 1999.

9.  After lunch, we can travel to Sheridan, Oregon to see prime suspect Ted Mayfield's old parachuting school, and witness where an estimated 13 skydivers perished, allegedly due to Ted's inadequate training, gear or supervision. Then we can see where Ted died of ex-sanguination in 2015 after being struck in the arm by a spinning propeller while he worked on his experimental aircraft at his Sheridan Air Park.

10.  Before departing for home via Sea-Tac, we can visit the basement room where prime suspect Sheridan Peterson spent a month in 1961 before his eviction for non-payment. But not before conferring with Boeing Engineer Bob Sailshaw and learning about the possibilities of jumping from a Boeing product in flight!


Remember, when it comes to DB Cooper, I'm ALL YOURS.

[Bruce A. Smith]

More Road Tripping:

11. Then, we'll swing past Earl Cossey's house in Woodinville, WA and see where he was whacked in the head on April 23, 2013, and ponder if some Norjak Puppet Master was cleaning up loose ends as Coss' credibility crumbled in the light of fierce illumination from intrepid investigative journalists! Cossey lied, and then he was murdered?  Yup! Yet, he was the FBI's de facto technical expert on Norjak!!!

[377]

Revisiting the crime scene huh Bruce?    Don't show too much familiarity with the site.

377

[Shutter]

More Road Tripping:

11. Then, we'll swing past Earl Cossey's house in Woodinville, WA and see where he was whacked in the head on April 23, 2013, and ponder if some Norjak Puppet Master was cleaning up loose ends as Coss' credibility crumbled in the light of fierce illumination from intrepid investigative journalists! Cossey lied, and then he was murdered?  Yup! Yet, he was the FBI's de facto technical expert on Norjak!!!

Do you think that's a respectable way to speak about someone who was murdered?

[Bruce A. Smith]

Ah, respect. I seem to have a different perspective towards death than most people. Death is not all that final or somber to me. Betrayals, abandonment, back-stabbing - now that hurts. That I remember, and ponder.

Cossey was a mixed bag. He lied to me repeatedly. He lied to others. He lied about lying. He deceived me and thwarted an investigation. He betrayed the trust of the American people to assist the FBI in pursing an honorable tract in the DB Cooper investigation. He was a lackey in somebody's else game.

He was intrusive and a wannabe. He showed up at a lot of other people's documentary filming, not always invited, as I understand.

He shouted Fuck You to me and hung up the phone when I asked him why he sent his parachutes to the wrong airport.

He reportedly ripped off his mother and family of real estate. He was addicted to gambling. He lied to Sailshaw, apparently.

And he was murdered. What kind of respect does murder earn? Any?

I think we all create our realities. To what degree that varies, I suppose. Certainly our discussion of personal responsibility will vary. I don't blame Coss for getting murdered. Nor do I honor him, or call him a victim.

I call no one a victim. We are only experiencers of our choices, our expectations, our realities. We reap what we sow. In that, we all learn. From everything. I do not blame, nor do I accept blame. I acknowledge, though, how my actions impact others - or rather, how others chose to react to my actions. I am forgiven, and forgive everyone else, even Coss...well, I try.

It's a dance, I think. We are all dancing with each other. Some live, some die, some sing, some cry.

So, where does respect enter this picture? All people deserve respect when a reporter discusses their demise?

Perhaps.

Clearly, I have offended a few sensibilities, here.

I'll ponder. To be continued.

[377]

I have a simpler philosophy.

To me Cossey was a victim. Most likely a victim of greed and/or anger.

I don't think his killing was connected to Norjack. Cossey was a gambler and reportedly carried large amounts of cash. That's more than enough to draw attention from bad guys.

Cossey did treat the truth as a circumstantial variable,  but that does not call for a death sentence.

I do hope Cossey's killer is brought to justice. I'm sure that hope is shared by all on this forum.

377