New Forum & News Updates

[nickyb233]

Gotcha G, thanks for clarifying things. Now I fully understand the crux of it all, it got a little confusing at one point but I think I got it. R99 is contending that these edits mentioned in that 302 could mean they took liberty to redact some 305 comms. I agree with you that the file is clear in it’s language that only non related comms were edited. I thought you and Robert were arguing merely over the fact that the document said there were edits/redactions made.

[Parrotheadvol]

But I cannot stress enough what a strong move DZ finally made getting rid of Blevins. Blevins was beyond belief.

He made a gross miscalculation. He warned everyone that if they kept complaining about him, that DZ would simply lock and possibly delete the entire Cooper thread. He never considered the simple and quite logical possibility that they would simply get rid of the person that was responsible for all of the complaints. A classic case of someone overplaying their hand.

[Robert99]

Gotcha G, thanks for clarifying things. Now I fully understand the crux of it all, it got a little confusing at one point but I think I got it. R99 is contending that these edits mentioned in that 302 could mean they took liberty to redact some 305 comms. I agree with you that the file is clear in it’s language that only non related comms were edited. I thought you and Robert were arguing merely over the fact that the document said there were edits/redactions made.

Let me repeat once more how the radio communications were handled with NWA 305.

The air traffic control communications were handled through the normal FAA radio communications system.  At least some of the radio frequencies that were used are mentioned in the Seattle ATC radio transcripts that have 19 obvious redactions.  Other aircraft may have been listening on those frequencies but they were probably being worked on other frequencies.

A perfect example of the above is included in the Oakland Center radio transcripts.  During the initial handoff to the Oakland Center, the controller told the C130 chase plane to stay off the VHF frequency but to listen on it.  If the chase C130 needed to talk to the controller (as they undoubtedly did from time to time) to do so over the military UHF frequency.  No further comments in those transcripts are from the C130 although it is mentioned from time to time.  No other aircraft were on the NWA 305 VHF frequency, just the hijacked airliner.

The radio link and the teletype transcripts and phone communications were through the ARINC facilities which is a private company that NWA subscribed to.  This company had a relatively limited communications capability because they only had one or maybe two radio frequencies available.  There is a mention in the 17 page FBI document, which is on Sluggo's site, where the FBI writer listed two other airliners that assisted NWA 305 by passing along messages to the nearest ARINC site.

During the flight to Reno, NWA 305 was ALWAYS at or above the minimum altitude for direct contact with ATC radio facilities.  Such was not the case for direct contact with the ARINC sites which resulted in the other airliners above passing along some messages.  It is a common courtesy that airliners will pass along information for other aircraft that may not be able to make direct contact with some facility for one reason or another.

The entire roll of teletype printouts that the George Harrison family loaned to WSHM related to NWA operations.  As the recently released FBI document clearly states, the FBI deleted some printouts from that roll of printouts prior to returning it to NWA and the remainder of the roll is what the Harrison family had left to loan to WSHM.  Personnel at the WSHM made a study of that roll of teletype printouts and concluded that a number of printouts related to the hijacking had been deleted, although apparently some had not despite the agent's claim.   

[Chaucer]

Thank you, everyone. Soon, I will be making MASSIVE changes and permanently banning multiple people and settling old scores.

Just kidding! 

I didn’t want the Forum closed up, and offered Shutter my services as a mod. As he said, he’s got a lot going on and can’t be a full time referee. Hopefully, I can assist him in creating a place in the Vortex where there’s less negativity. I’d also like to bring in some new, active members because I think we could use some new blood and new ideas.

Make no mistake, Shutter’s still the man in charge, and I will be operating completely under his supervision.

In the meantime, the beatings will continue until morale improves….

[Bruce A. Smith]

Shut - all the best with you and your family. Coop comes second, for sure.

Chaucer - glad you're able to pinch-hit here for awhile.

Great news over at the DZ. I'll be popping in over there, too.

[nickyb233]

I will be keeping you and your family in my thoughts and prayers shut.

Best Wishes

Nicky

[Robert99]

I will be keeping you and your family in my thoughts and prayers shut.

Best Wishes

Nicky

Nicky, congratulations.  How did your visit to Tena Bar go?  Was it educational?

[georger]

Thank you, everyone. Soon, I will be making MASSIVE changes and permanently banning multiple people and settling old scores.

Just kidding! 

I didn’t want the Forum closed up, and offered Shutter my services as a mod. As he said, he’s got a lot going on and can’t be a full time referee. Hopefully, I can assist him in creating a place in the Vortex where there’s less negativity. I’d also like to bring in some new, active members because I think we could use some new blood and new ideas.

Make no mistake, Shutter’s still the man in charge, and I will be operating completely under his supervision.

In the meantime, the beatings will continue until morale improves….

Thanks! sounds good. 

[georger]

Gotcha G, thanks for clarifying things. Now I fully understand the crux of it all, it got a little confusing at one point but I think I got it. R99 is contending that these edits mentioned in that 302 could mean they took liberty to redact some 305 comms. I agree with you that the file is clear in it’s language that only non related comms were edited. I thought you and Robert were arguing merely over the fact that the document said there were edits/redactions made.

Thank you. Ask yourself why the FBI would bother to redact anything from the original comms file only six days after the hijacking - the file they got is not for public release but only for (a) internal FBI use, (b) for sharing with Soderlind etal trying to evaluate when and where Cooper jumped. The FBI is completely reliant on experts to ascertain these facts from any and all documents they can collect.

Agents are sometimes glorified 'gophers' (errand boys) who run around under authority of law collecting evidence, for third parties. In that roll they collected materials from NWA etc including the teletype rolls ... and the FBI (agents) are working under the authority/orders of the Atty General and prohibited BY LAW from tampering with evidence they are sent/charged to collect. Evidence collected may have to be produced in a Federal Court of Law. Tampering with evidence can be a Federal crime.

Is R99 going to now charge the FBI in Federal Court with evidence tampering in the DB Cooper case? Will he cite "D.B. Cooper Part 67 of 67-193" and WSHM statements as proof ?

I dont think so...   

Years later the FBI or someone shared a version of the flight comms with a newspaper (Seattle PI). A copy was shared with Sluggo for release to the public?  Ckret was posting/answering questions at DZ. Harrison family shared their rolls with the WSHM .......... an issue concerning 'redactions' surfaced from WSHM and R99. WSHM's actual words were: quote -

"The examination of the George Harrison ARINC printouts was made on site at WSHM on Jan. ... with a corresponding timestamp on 2013.5.15.5 [page 93 of transcript; page 5 of PDF ... there were found to be eight 8 areas of missing, or redacted, teletype print copy, ... "

'found to be eight 8 areas of missing, or redacted, teletype print copy,'   MISSING OR REDACTED!

R99 claims REDACTED. R99 is not using WSHM's actual statement! WSHM apparently could not decide btwn missing vs redacted. R99 is sure it was redacted because it fits his conspiracy theory.

the saga continues . . .   there would be no motivation for anyone to redact flight comm evidence at the very time that evidence is needed by NWA, Air Force, FAA, etc to establish precisely when and where Cooper bailed. And to tamper with that evidence could be a Federal Crime back in Nov 1971.     

[Robert99]

Gotcha G, thanks for clarifying things. Now I fully understand the crux of it all, it got a little confusing at one point but I think I got it. R99 is contending that these edits mentioned in that 302 could mean they took liberty to redact some 305 comms. I agree with you that the file is clear in it’s language that only non related comms were edited. I thought you and Robert were arguing merely over the fact that the document said there were edits/redactions made.

Thank you. Ask yourself why the FBI would bother to redact anything from the original comms file only six days after the hijacking - the file they got is not for public release but only for (a) internal FBI use, (b) for sharing with Soderlind etal trying to evaluate when and where Cooper jumped. The FBI is completely reliant on experts to ascertain these facts from any and all documents they can collect.

Agents are sometimes glorified 'gophers' (errand boys) who run around under authority of law collecting evidence, for third parties. In that roll they collected materials from NWA etc including the teletype rolls ... and the FBI (agents) are working under the authority/orders of the Atty General and prohibited BY LAW from tampering with evidence they are sent/charged to collect. Evidence collected may have to be produced in a Federal Court of Law. Tampering with evidence can be a Federal crime.

Is R99 going to now charge the FBI in Federal Court with evidence tampering in the DB Cooper case? Will he cite "D.B. Cooper Part 67 of 67-193" and WSHM statements as proof ?

I dont think so...   

Years later the FBI or someone shared a version of the flight comms with a newspaper (Seattle PI). A copy was shared with Sluggo for release to the public?  Ckret was posting/answering questions at DZ. Harrison family shared their rolls with the WSHM .......... an issue concerning 'redactions' surfaced from WSHM and R99. WSHM's actual words were: quote -

"The examination of the George Harrison ARINC printouts was made on site at WSHM on Jan. ... with a corresponding timestamp on 2013.5.15.5 [page 93 of transcript; page 5 of PDF ... there were found to be eight 8 areas of missing, or redacted, teletype print copy, ... "

'found to be eight 8 areas of missing, or redacted, teletype print copy,'   MISSING OR REDACTED!

R99 claims REDACTED. R99 is not using WSHM's actual statement! WSHM apparently could not decide btwn missing vs redacted. R99 is sure it was redacted because it fits his conspiracy theory.

the saga continues . . .   there would be no motivation for anyone to redact flight comm evidence at the very time that evidence is needed by NWA, Air Force, FAA, etc to establish precisely when and where Cooper bailed. And to tamper with that evidence could be a Federal Crime back in Nov 1971.   

Georger,

First, you need to get yourself a dictionary, preferably an English language one, and look up all those big words that you are obviously having trouble with.  Some of those words may essentially mean the same thing.  If you have had a course in the English language at the second grade or higher level, your instructor may have mentioned that there are several ways to say the same thing in English. 

Finally, you are claiming it is a federal crime for the FBI to withhold information during a criminal investigation (as opposed to a trial).  I'll bet the US Supreme Court would appreciate hearing from you on that claim and would like to know the chapter and verses of whatever document supports your allegations.  Perhaps you should discuss your claims with 377.   

[nickyb233]

I will be keeping you and your family in my thoughts and prayers shut.

Best Wishes

Nicky

Nicky, congratulations.  How did your visit to Tena Bar go?  Was it educational?

It was indeed I’m working on a new fishing cabin theory. I’ll have more to come on that.

[nickyb233]

FYI everyone as soon as we put out one fire in the vortex with Blevins another trouble maker returns on a rampage. Derek has made phony YouTube account impersonating me and has uploaded two videos one claiming Colbert is accusing Bruce of embezzlement and the other which is even more disturbing that shutter is dead in south Florida. I reported the account and I encourage any of you to do the same if you run across it on the tube.

Thanks - Nicky

[georger]

FYI everyone as soon as we put out one fire in the vortex with Blevins another trouble maker returns on a rampage. Derek has made phony YouTube account impersonating me and has uploaded two videos one claiming Colbert is accusing Bruce of embezzlement and the other which is even more disturbing that shutter is dead in south Florida. I reported the account and I encourage any of you to do the same if you run across it on the tube.

Thanks - Nicky

never ends I guess. On a better note thats real as snowflakes - at DZ I now offer you and FJ the full WSHM Harrison file. I have it. I gave Chaucer a peek some months back ... but I have it if you need it or want it for your new Sluggo type archived website! Im happy to share it and FJ may not have it or have seen it? ... G 

[georger]

Gotcha G, thanks for clarifying things. Now I fully understand the crux of it all, it got a little confusing at one point but I think I got it. R99 is contending that these edits mentioned in that 302 could mean they took liberty to redact some 305 comms. I agree with you that the file is clear in it’s language that only non related comms were edited. I thought you and Robert were arguing merely over the fact that the document said there were edits/redactions made.

Contrary to R99's claim, the word edit does not mean redaction. The document does not say redaction. Redaction is R99's word and R99's theory.

WSHM said 'missing or redacted' - there's a big difference.

Nobody has offered a reason why the FBI would be redacting any of these teletype roll passages six days after the hijacking ? In any event, until R99 can finally offer some proof his claims, these are just claims which as if this date have persisted for decades. 99 has said 'the Oakland comms are what the Seattle flight comms should look like'! Whatever that is.   

[georger]

Gotcha G, thanks for clarifying things. Now I fully understand the crux of it all, it got a little confusing at one point but I think I got it. R99 is contending that these edits mentioned in that 302 could mean they took liberty to redact some 305 comms. I agree with you that the file is clear in it’s language that only non related comms were edited. I thought you and Robert were arguing merely over the fact that the document said there were edits/redactions made.

Thank you. Ask yourself why the FBI would bother to redact anything from the original comms file only six days after the hijacking - the file they got is not for public release but only for (a) internal FBI use, (b) for sharing with Soderlind etal trying to evaluate when and where Cooper jumped. The FBI is completely reliant on experts to ascertain these facts from any and all documents they can collect.

Agents are sometimes glorified 'gophers' (errand boys) who run around under authority of law collecting evidence, for third parties. In that roll they collected materials from NWA etc including the teletype rolls ... and the FBI (agents) are working under the authority/orders of the Atty General and prohibited BY LAW from tampering with evidence they are sent/charged to collect. Evidence collected may have to be produced in a Federal Court of Law. Tampering with evidence can be a Federal crime.

Is R99 going to now charge the FBI in Federal Court with evidence tampering in the DB Cooper case? Will he cite "D.B. Cooper Part 67 of 67-193" and WSHM statements as proof ?

I dont think so...   

Years later the FBI or someone shared a version of the flight comms with a newspaper (Seattle PI). A copy was shared with Sluggo for release to the public?  Ckret was posting/answering questions at DZ. Harrison family shared their rolls with the WSHM .......... an issue concerning 'redactions' surfaced from WSHM and R99. WSHM's actual words were: quote -

"The examination of the George Harrison ARINC printouts was made on site at WSHM on Jan. ... with a corresponding timestamp on 2013.5.15.5 [page 93 of transcript; page 5 of PDF ... there were found to be eight 8 areas of missing, or redacted, teletype print copy, ... "

'found to be eight 8 areas of missing, or redacted, teletype print copy,'   MISSING OR REDACTED!

R99 claims REDACTED. R99 is not using WSHM's actual statement! WSHM apparently could not decide btwn missing vs redacted. R99 is sure it was redacted because it fits his conspiracy theory.

the saga continues . . .   there would be no motivation for anyone to redact flight comm evidence at the very time that evidence is needed by NWA, Air Force, FAA, etc to establish precisely when and where Cooper bailed. And to tamper with that evidence could be a Federal Crime back in Nov 1971.   

Georger,

First, you need to get yourself a dictionary, preferably an English language one, and look up all those big words that you are obviously having trouble with.  Some of those words may essentially mean the same thing.  If you have had a course in the English language at the second grade or higher level, your instructor may have mentioned that there are several ways to say the same thing in English. 

Finally, you are claiming it is a federal crime for the FBI to withhold information during a criminal investigation (as opposed to a trial).  I'll bet the US Supreme Court would appreciate hearing from you on that claim and would like to know the chapter and verses of whatever document supports your allegations.  Perhaps you should discuss your claims with 377.

Good idea! Get 377 to speak on these legal points, and stop telling me to take an English class.