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[georger]

The Seattle FBI media department just turned down my request to interview Larry Carr.

no surprise. you dont have skin in the game. 377 or Ulis could get to him!    

It would appear the walls are closing in on Cooper investigation. The sucking sound is obvious. Politics uber alles. 

[Darren]

The Seattle FBI media department just turned down my request to interview Larry Carr.

Seattle turned me down, and National rejected my requests twice. The final time I was told "Your request has been denied. No further explanation will be given." WTF?

[Bruce A. Smith]

The Seattle FBI media department just turned down my request to interview Larry Carr.

Seattle turned me down, and National rejected my requests twice. The final time I was told "Your request has been denied. No further explanation will be given." WTF?

The game continues. The FBI only tells ya what they want ya to know and when they want ya to know it.

But, I'll be sending my questions for Larry to the Media People so they'll know....

[Bruce A. Smith]

Questions for Larry Carr:

1. Parachutes -

- What do you consider the impact to be of the revelation that two Pioneer/Steinthaul packing cards have been found for the back chutes? Still standing by Earl Cossey and his NB-6/8 pronouncements?
- Where exactly was the Amboy Chute found? Where is it now?

2. Can you clarify your 2008 comments on the DZ that the cigarette butts were "processed" in 2003 and then lost in transit back to Las Vegas?

3. Who is Al Di? What do you consider the impact to be of his de-coding Letter #3 in August 2011.

4. Do you consider L.D. Cooper to be the "most promising" suspect the FBI has investigated in Norjak?

5. Where are the larger shards of money that were found on Tina Bar during the FBI's dig, Feb 12-15, 1980? These would be the ones 2-3 inches in size and large enough to warrant placement in Plasticine evidence envelopes, as described by Dorwin Schroeder and video taped by KATU. The Citizen Sleuths said they did not see them when they examined the evidence trove in Seattle in 2009 and 2010.

[andrade1812]

Forget all that, ask Larry Carr to look into the Shelton Lead and the Egg Harbor Suspect. Al Di, LD Cooper and the amboy chute are dead ends.

[Chaucer]

More on Larry Carr.

I called the Seattle FBI Division today to speak directly with Larry. First, I had to negotiate an obstinate "receptionist" who then passed me onto a obstructionist named "Steve" who tried to dissuade me from having any interest in Larry or Norjak. Steve finally relented when I told him I was an established online journalist who has written a book on Cooper and have heard from multiple sources that Larry is back on the trail of DB Cooper. At that point, Steve asked me to write an email to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login and ask for an interview with Larry, and that "the higher ups" will let Steve know if they approve my request....

I'll keep y'all posted for as long as the Forum is open.

Meanwhile Ckret is free to talk to whomever he wants whenever he wants on his own terms. Didnt he initiate conversations with Eric Ulis, on his own?   

So much time and space has been devoted or wasted on suspects, other vital issues in the case have gone totally ignored. If Cooper survived, how did he escape being detected immediately after the hijacking. An answer to that may couple with how Cooper managed to hook up with flight 305 in the first place - he said he had a grudge but not against your airlines (whatever that means). He said flight 305 in particular was 'the right flight in the right place and time'! Where was Cooper when he was checking flights for a possible hijack and extortion? He has to be somewhere where he has access to this information so he can select and act rather quickly. Was he in Portland, Vancouver, or Seattle waiting and watching? There isnt a single 302 about any of this so far!  ... Was Cooper sitting in a homeless camp nearby watching, gathering info, and waiting ?  Or was he somewhere reviewing actual airline schedules? Or as some believe, did he just happen to walk into the Portland Airport on that day only to learn an NWA flight 305 was going to happen, and suddenly there was his opportunity (with his bomb already under his arm) ?

In his book, Dr. Edwards discusses the issues involving the selection of NWA 305 at length.  Read his book for the entire discussion.  But one reason that has not been discussed here previously to my knowledge is that NWA 305 terminated at Seattle and all the passengers were going to disembark there.  Cooper wanted to get the passengers off the plane and out of the way and that would happen in Seattle.

That could happen with any flight anywhere. Cooper said nothing of this kind. All Cooper said was it was the right plane at the right place .... whatever that adds up to.

But where was Cooper as he was looking for a plane to hijack, building his bomb in advance. He presented himself at Portland neat and clean with bomb in hand. He did not stink or show signs of living in a homeless camp? He presented himself as being a worldly person. He is not a wetback from Mexico who does not speak English ...

No, it could not "happen with any flight anywhere"!  You need to do some actual research before dismissing things out of hand.  Your second paragraph above does not have anything to do with my post.

OK so explain YOUR THEORY!  Whatever that has to do with anything ...............................

This is explained in intricate detail in Dr. Edward's book.

[Robert99]

More on Larry Carr.

I called the Seattle FBI Division today to speak directly with Larry. First, I had to negotiate an obstinate "receptionist" who then passed me onto a obstructionist named "Steve" who tried to dissuade me from having any interest in Larry or Norjak. Steve finally relented when I told him I was an established online journalist who has written a book on Cooper and have heard from multiple sources that Larry is back on the trail of DB Cooper. At that point, Steve asked me to write an email to You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login and ask for an interview with Larry, and that "the higher ups" will let Steve know if they approve my request....

I'll keep y'all posted for as long as the Forum is open.

Meanwhile Ckret is free to talk to whomever he wants whenever he wants on his own terms. Didnt he initiate conversations with Eric Ulis, on his own?   

So much time and space has been devoted or wasted on suspects, other vital issues in the case have gone totally ignored. If Cooper survived, how did he escape being detected immediately after the hijacking. An answer to that may couple with how Cooper managed to hook up with flight 305 in the first place - he said he had a grudge but not against your airlines (whatever that means). He said flight 305 in particular was 'the right flight in the right place and time'! Where was Cooper when he was checking flights for a possible hijack and extortion? He has to be somewhere where he has access to this information so he can select and act rather quickly. Was he in Portland, Vancouver, or Seattle waiting and watching? There isnt a single 302 about any of this so far!  ... Was Cooper sitting in a homeless camp nearby watching, gathering info, and waiting ?  Or was he somewhere reviewing actual airline schedules? Or as some believe, did he just happen to walk into the Portland Airport on that day only to learn an NWA flight 305 was going to happen, and suddenly there was his opportunity (with his bomb already under his arm) ?

In his book, Dr. Edwards discusses the issues involving the selection of NWA 305 at length.  Read his book for the entire discussion.  But one reason that has not been discussed here previously to my knowledge is that NWA 305 terminated at Seattle and all the passengers were going to disembark there.  Cooper wanted to get the passengers off the plane and out of the way and that would happen in Seattle.

That could happen with any flight anywhere. Cooper said nothing of this kind. All Cooper said was it was the right plane at the right place .... whatever that adds up to.

But where was Cooper as he was looking for a plane to hijack, building his bomb in advance. He presented himself at Portland neat and clean with bomb in hand. He did not stink or show signs of living in a homeless camp? He presented himself as being a worldly person. He is not a wetback from Mexico who does not speak English ...

No, it could not "happen with any flight anywhere"!  You need to do some actual research before dismissing things out of hand.  Your second paragraph above does not have anything to do with my post.

OK so explain YOUR THEORY!  Whatever that has to do with anything ...............................

This is explained in intricate detail in Dr. Edward's book.

Georger, this means that Chaucer has actually read Dr. Edward's book.

[Bruce A. Smith]

Forget all that, ask Larry Carr to look into the Shelton Lead and the Egg Harbor Suspect. Al Di, LD Cooper and the amboy chute are dead ends.

Marty, can you refresh my memory on the Shelton lead and the Egg Harbor suspect. Thanks.

[nickyb233]

Update on my Seatac ATC tapes. In the recent fbi file drop the feds state that they only received transcripts of the tapes and that the tapes remained in the custody of it’s owner. Well you can call me custody…. the tapes are being put on CD as we speak. They run about 90 min each side, stay tuned cooperville! I linked the 302 below.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

[Robert99]

Update on my Seatac ATC tapes. In the recent fbi file drop the feds state that they only received transcripts of the tapes and that the tapes remained in the custody of its it’s owner. Well you can call me custody…. the tapes are being put on CD as we speak. They run about 90 min each side, stay tuned cooperville! I linked the 302 below.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Nicky, you may have in hand the goose that laid the golden egg.  Let's discuss this further.

The FAA is mandated to keep records of accidents and reportable "incidents" involving aircraft and I don't believe there is a cut-off time involved for retaining those records.  The FBI page you linked clearly indicates that those records were being retained in late December 1971 more than a month after the hijacking and about a month after written copies of the radio transcripts were provided to the FBI.

The hijacked airliner was on the ground at SEATAC for slightly more than two hours.  Radio transcripts for the time on the ground at SEATAC are available here on Shutter's site.  Highly redacted ATC radio transcripts for the flight from SEATAC to the point where the airliner was handed off to the Oakland ATC Center are also on Shutter's site.

Take a look at the radio transcripts for the Oakland Center, which are also on this site, if you want to know what the Seattle Center's radio transcripts should look like.

Several years ago, I attempted to get an unredacted copy of the Seattle Center's radio transcripts for the flight south.  I addressed my original FOIA request to the FAA Regional Office in the Seattle area where the records would initially be retained.  They replied by registered mail with a full page of contact information for the FBI's FOIA office in the Washington, DC area.  I sent a FOIA request to the FBI office and essentially got a big-time bureaucratic runaround.

I got my US Congresswoman and her staff involved and they worked through the FBI Congressional Liasion Office to get my FOIA requests back on track.  The end result of three FOIA requests to the FBI and FAA was two pages of about one short paragraph each.  Those pages are also posted here on Shutter's site.

Nicky, if your recording has the Seattle Center's complete unredacted radio transcripts for the flight south from SEATAC to a point about 50 miles south of the Battleground VORTAC, then we really need to talk further.[\b]     

[nickyb233]

Update on my Seatac ATC tapes. In the recent fbi file drop the feds state that they only received transcripts of the tapes and that the tapes remained in the custody of its it’s owner. Well you can call me custody…. the tapes are being put on CD as we speak. They run about 90 min each side, stay tuned cooperville! I linked the 302 below.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Nicky, you may have in hand the goose that laid the golden egg.  Let's discuss this further.

The FAA is mandated to keep records of accidents and reportable "incidents" involving aircraft and I don't believe there is a cut-off time involved for retaining those records.  The FBI page you linked clearly indicates that those records were being retained in late December 1971 more than a month after the hijacking and about a month after written copies of the radio transcripts were provided to the FBI.

The hijacked airliner was on the ground at SEATAC for slightly more than two hours.  Radio transcripts for the time on the ground at SEATAC are available here on Shutter's site.  Highly redacted ATC radio transcripts for the flight from SEATAC to the point where the airliner was handed off to the Oakland ATC Center are also on Shutter's site.

Take a look at the radio transcripts for the Oakland Center, which are also on this site, if you want to know what the Seattle Center's radio transcripts should look like.

Several years ago, I attempted to get an unredacted copy of the Seattle Center's radio transcripts for the flight south.  I addressed my original FOIA request to the FAA Regional Office in the Seattle area where the records would initially be retained.  They replied by registered mail with a full page of contact information for the FBI's FOIA office in the Washington, DC area.  I sent a FOIA request to the FBI office and essentially got a big-time bureaucratic runaround.

I got my US Congresswoman and her staff involved and they worked through the FBI Congressional Liasion Office to get my FOIA requests back on track.  The end result of three FOIA requests to the FBI and FAA was two pages of about one short paragraph each.  Those pages are also posted here on Shutter's site.

Nicky, if your recording has the Seattle Center's complete unredacted radio transcripts for the flight south from SEATAC to a point about 50 miles south of the Battleground VORTAC, then we really need to talk further.[\b]   

I will let you guys know as soon as I get the CD and can listen to it all but just doing the math if 305 was in the ground for two hours and the tape recordings run three then you’d think it would there but we’ll see… fingers crossed!

[georger]

Update on my Seatac ATC tapes. In the recent fbi file drop the feds state that they only received transcripts of the tapes and that the tapes remained in the custody of its it’s owner. Well you can call me custody…. the tapes are being put on CD as we speak. They run about 90 min each side, stay tuned cooperville! I linked the 302 below.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Nicky, you may have in hand the goose that laid the golden egg.  Let's discuss this further.

The FAA is mandated to keep records of accidents and reportable "incidents" involving aircraft and I don't believe there is a cut-off time involved for retaining those records.  The FBI page you linked clearly indicates that those records were being retained in late December 1971 more than a month after the hijacking and about a month after written copies of the radio transcripts were provided to the FBI.

The hijacked airliner was on the ground at SEATAC for slightly more than two hours.  Radio transcripts for the time on the ground at SEATAC are available here on Shutter's site.  Highly redacted ATC radio transcripts for the flight from SEATAC to the point where the airliner was handed off to the Oakland ATC Center are also on Shutter's site.

Take a look at the radio transcripts for the Oakland Center, which are also on this site, if you want to know what the Seattle Center's radio transcripts should look like.

Several years ago, I attempted to get an unredacted copy of the Seattle Center's radio transcripts for the flight south.  I addressed my original FOIA request to the FAA Regional Office in the Seattle area where the records would initially be retained.  They replied by registered mail with a full page of contact information for the FBI's FOIA office in the Washington, DC area.  I sent a FOIA request to the FBI office and essentially got a big-time bureaucratic runaround.

I got my US Congresswoman and her staff involved and they worked through the FBI Congressional Liasion Office to get my FOIA requests back on track.  The end result of three FOIA requests to the FBI and FAA was two pages of about one short paragraph each.  Those pages are also posted here on Shutter's site.

Nicky, if your recording has the Seattle Center's complete unredacted radio transcripts for the flight south from SEATAC to a point about 50 miles south of the Battleground VORTAC, then we really need to talk further.[\b]   

Here we go again -

Redacted by whom, when, and for what reason?  Who discovered these socalled redactions? You or WSHM since it was WSHM's work that started this whole saga over redactions? Just state the whole history of this issue for a change! Who discovered 'redactions' ? You, WSHM, or both ......... and when?

WSHM states "The examination of the George Harrison ARINC printouts was made on site at WSHM on Jan. ... with a corresponding timestamp on 2013.5.15.5 [page 93 of transcript; page 5 of PDF ... there were found to be eight 8 areas of missing, or redacted, teletype print copy, ..."


eight ( areas of missing, or redacted, teletype print copy,

Moreover I am not sure Shutter's Vault does contain all of the relevant documents you say it does!

In a previous post by you you said: "The Seattle ATC radio transcripts have 19 redactions indicated.  The ARINC transcripts are also incomplete according to a study of them done by Fred Poynter and his staff at the WSHM.  This has been discussed at length previously on this site."

WSHM  says: there were found to be eight 8 areas of missing, or redacted, teletype print copy,  ...  You say: The Seattle ATC radio transcripts have 19 redactions indicated.  The ARINC transcripts are also incomplete according to a study of them done by Fred Poynter and his staff at the WSHM.  This has been discussed at length previously on this site."   Who is correct? You or WSHM ?

***  Exactly WHEN was the "Seattle ATC radio transcripts" released to the public and by whom?  2000?  2013?  Were they released by Ckret to Sluggo who in turn put them uyp on his website to share with the public via Dropzone? What year did that happen? Or were they first released by the Seattle FBI to the Seattle Post Intelligencer newspaper who put them up on their website (where I got them) ... in what year?

What is the exact date of the REDACTIONS you are claiming the FBI made. When did it happen? 1971? 2000? 2013? Neither you or WSHM have nailed down the date redactions were made ?

What I am asking for now if the mere minimum of what you should be supplying given the nature of your contentions. WSHM mentions eight 8 areas of missing, or redacted, teletype print copy,  ...  You say: The Seattle ATC radio transcripts have 19 redactions.

Frankly, I dont expect you will answer any of these questions (now that time is running out on the life of this forum) any more than you answered these questions years ago when last put to you. Where are you going to go when this forum closes with your claims? 

To sum this all up:  it seems to me the issue of redactions voiced by you, started after WSHM's work ? Any redactions made were made when the FBI released the Seattle ATC Transcript to the Seattle PI for sharing with the public.  In 2013?  I forget the year. If this did happen who gives a shit! ?  You cannot claim Soderlind and the FAA were denied original accurate information concerning the flight path and the drop. Is your claim that these redactions made in 2013 (?) somehow concealed original info about the flight path and drop?  Because you are personally denied what does that have to do with anything, or any of the central facts of the DB Cooper case? Nothing!   

[Robert99]

Update on my Seatac ATC tapes. In the recent fbi file drop the feds state that they only received transcripts of the tapes and that the tapes remained in the custody of its it’s owner. Well you can call me custody…. the tapes are being put on CD as we speak. They run about 90 min each side, stay tuned cooperville! I linked the 302 below.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Nicky, you may have in hand the goose that laid the golden egg.  Let's discuss this further.

The FAA is mandated to keep records of accidents and reportable "incidents" involving aircraft and I don't believe there is a cut-off time involved for retaining those records.  The FBI page you linked clearly indicates that those records were being retained in late December 1971 more than a month after the hijacking and about a month after written copies of the radio transcripts were provided to the FBI.

The hijacked airliner was on the ground at SEATAC for slightly more than two hours.  Radio transcripts for the time on the ground at SEATAC are available here on Shutter's site.  Highly redacted ATC radio transcripts for the flight from SEATAC to the point where the airliner was handed off to the Oakland ATC Center are also on Shutter's site.

Take a look at the radio transcripts for the Oakland Center, which are also on this site, if you want to know what the Seattle Center's radio transcripts should look like.

Several years ago, I attempted to get an unredacted copy of the Seattle Center's radio transcripts for the flight south.  I addressed my original FOIA request to the FAA Regional Office in the Seattle area where the records would initially be retained.  They replied by registered mail with a full page of contact information for the FBI's FOIA office in the Washington, DC area.  I sent a FOIA request to the FBI office and essentially got a big-time bureaucratic runaround.

I got my US Congresswoman and her staff involved and they worked through the FBI Congressional Liasion Office to get my FOIA requests back on track.  The end result of three FOIA requests to the FBI and FAA was two pages of about one short paragraph each.  Those pages are also posted here on Shutter's site.

Nicky, if your recording has the Seattle Center's complete unredacted radio transcripts for the flight south from SEATAC to a point about 50 miles south of the Battleground VORTAC, then we really need to talk further.   

Here we go again -

Redacted by whom, when, and for what reason?  Who discovered these socalled redactions? You or WSHM since it was WSHM's work that started this whole saga over redactions? Just state the whole history of this issue for a change! Who discovered 'redactions' ? You, WSHM, or both ......... and when?

WSHM states "The examination of the George Harrison ARINC printouts was made on site at WSHM on Jan. ... with a corresponding timestamp on 2013.5.15.5 [page 93 of transcript; page 5 of PDF ... there were found to be eight 8 areas of missing, or redacted, teletype print copy, ..."


eight ( areas of missing, or redacted, teletype print copy,

Moreover I am not sure Shutter's Vault does contain all of the relevant documents you say it does!

In a previous post by you you said: "The Seattle ATC radio transcripts have 19 redactions indicated.  The ARINC transcripts are also incomplete according to a study of them done by Fred Poynter and his staff at the WSHM.  This has been discussed at length previously on this site."

WSHM  says: there were found to be eight 8 areas of missing, or redacted, teletype print copy,  ...  You say: The Seattle ATC radio transcripts have 19 redactions indicated.  The ARINC transcripts are also incomplete according to a study of them done by Fred Poynter and his staff at the WSHM.  This has been discussed at length previously on this site."   Who is correct? You or WSHM ?

***  Exactly WHEN was the "Seattle ATC radio transcripts" released to the public and by whom?  2000?  2013?  Were they released by Ckret to Sluggo who in turn put them uyp on his website to share with the public via Dropzone? What year did that happen? Or were they first released by the Seattle FBI to the Seattle Post Intelligencer newspaper who put them up on their website (where I got them) ... in what year?

What is the exact date of the REDACTIONS you are claiming the FBI made. When did it happen? 1971? 2000? 2013? Neither you or WSHM have nailed down the date redactions were made ?

What I am asking for now if the mere minimum of what you should be supplying given the nature of your contentions. WSHM mentions eight ( areas of missing, or redacted, teletype print copy,  ...  You say: The Seattle ATC radio transcripts have 19 redactions.

Frankly, I dont expect you will answer any of these questions (now that time is running out on the life of this forum) any more than you answered these questions years ago when last put to you. Where are you going to go when this forum closes with your claims?

Here we go again indeed!  This is just more disinformation from Georger!

Georger doesn't understand the difference between the radio transcripts from the Seattle ATC Center and the teletype transcripts that were loaned to the WSHM for their analysis.  These are two separate documents.

I stand by my previous posts and analysis on this subject and I'm sure that the WSHM personnel stand by their posts and analysis.

[andrade1812]

Bruce:

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The redactions in the transcript are explicitly discussed in the latest FBI release, according to the 302s the redactions were unrelated to flight 305.

[georger]

Bruce:

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The redactions in the transcript are explicitly discussed in the latest FBI release, according to the 302s the redactions were unrelated to flight 305.

What transcript are you talking about or referring to ?  Redactions in what Transcript?

Give url to the latest FBI release you are talking about .

Or is this a private conversation btwn you and Bruce Smith on this forum ?

Could people stop talking in codes?   Otherwise all of this is pointless!