New Forum & News Updates

[georger]

Aphasia is a disorder that results from damage to areas of the brain that produce and process language. A person with aphasia can have trouble speaking, reading, writing, and understanding language. Impairment in these abilities can range from mild to very severe (nearly impossible to communicate in any form). Aphasia affects a person's ability to correctly parse and comprehend written language. Aphasia can have a very strong emotional component marked by arguing, denial, and paranoia.   

example:
MSPO   R
305 NAME OF AN UNKNOWN  ABT SIX FEET 1 INCH HIGH
BLACK HAIR    ARXXX    AGE ABT 50    WHGT  175 LBS
BRDD AT PDX
. . .

Flyjack: Oops, how did everyone miss this clue for 50 years, seems to be very important.
Cooper.. 1 inch high black hair...  that doesn't fit most suspects... (and adds an inch of height as well)
 
R99 reply >: That 1 inch applies to his height.  Cooper was 6 feet and 1 inch (or 73 inches) tall.  His hair color was black.

Georger, what are you trying to say here?  How bad is your aphasia problem?

OK.

[Bruce A. Smith]

Breaking News from Cooper Country

There was a major fire tonight at Shady Acres Airport in Spanaway, WA. One hangar, one home, and at least one airplane were reported destroyed or damaged.

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Shady Acres is the airport where Marianne Lincoln, as a 14-year old girl, listened to the ATC and Seattle Center on her family's VHF radio in their plane. Marianne is the woman who is adamant that she heard the ATC and pilots discussing their eastern pathway over the Washougal River basin, turning eastwards at Troutdale, and flying up the Columbia River Gorge. She also said that Cooper demanded 400K and settled for 200K. Marianne says she listened to the cockpit's side of the negotiations and not the FBI's side - or vice-versa. I forget.

Marianne no longer lives at Shady Acres, but still resides in the Spanaway area, and is a blogging journalist on the Pierce Prairie Post.

[georger]

Breaking News from Cooper Country

There was a major fire tonight at Shady Acres Airport in Spanaway, WA. One hangar, one home, and at least one airplane were reported destroyed or damaged.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Shady Acres is the airport where Marianne Lincoln, as a 14-year old girl, listened to the ATC and Seattle Center on her family's VHF radio in their plane. Marianne is the woman who is adamant that she heard the ATC and pilots discussing their eastern pathway over the Washougal River basin, turning eastwards at Troutdale, and flying up the Columbia River Gorge. She also said that Cooper demanded 400K and settled for 200K. Marianne says she listened to the cockpit's side of the negotiations and not the FBI's side - or vice-versa. I forget.

Marianne no longer lives at Shady Acres, but still resides in the Spanaway area, and is a blogging journalist on the Pierce Prairie Post.

When this was run by the Manger of the Troutdale airport at the time, he strongly disputed this report and offered evidence to the contrary. For one thing he had several flights coming in which arrived and landed almost contiguous with 305 being near Vancouver/Portland. .... he offered a whole string of reasons and facts disputing this teenager's report. He said once his flights arrived and were on the ground he closed his airport waiting for word that 305 had passed PDX. He classified the report involving his airport as "idiotic beyond belief!".

This was all covered years ago at DZ. Why are you bringing it up again?

Why didnt you interview the airport manager and do a story about it?     

[dudeman17]

Shady Acres is the airport where Marianne Lincoln, as a 14-year old girl, listened to the ATC and Seattle Center on her family's VHF radio in their plane. Marianne is the woman who is adamant that she heard the ATC and pilots discussing their eastern pathway over the Washougal River basin, turning eastwards at Troutdale, and flying up the Columbia River Gorge. She also said that Cooper demanded 400K and settled for 200K. Marianne says she listened to the cockpit's side of the negotiations and not the FBI's side - or vice-versa. I forget.

When this was run by the Manger of the Troutdale airport at the time, he strongly disputed this report and offered evidence to the contrary. For one thing he had several flights coming in which arrived and landed almost contiguous with 305 being near Vancouver/Portland. .... he offered a whole string of reasons and facts disputing this teenager's report. He said once his flights arrived and were on the ground he closed his airport waiting for word that 305 had passed PDX. He classified the report involving his airport as "idiotic beyond belief!".

Just as a matter of logistics, if this plane was parked on the ground and the kid was just sitting in it listening to the radio, not talking back but just listening, I don't see how any airport manager would have any idea about it. They just would not know it was happening.

[Robert99]

Shady Acres is the airport where Marianne Lincoln, as a 14-year old girl, listened to the ATC and Seattle Center on her family's VHF radio in their plane. Marianne is the woman who is adamant that she heard the ATC and pilots discussing their eastern pathway over the Washougal River basin, turning eastwards at Troutdale, and flying up the Columbia River Gorge. She also said that Cooper demanded 400K and settled for 200K. Marianne says she listened to the cockpit's side of the negotiations and not the FBI's side - or vice-versa. I forget.

When this was run by the Manger of the Troutdale airport at the time, he strongly disputed this report and offered evidence to the contrary. For one thing he had several flights coming in which arrived and landed almost contiguous with 305 being near Vancouver/Portland. .... he offered a whole string of reasons and facts disputing this teenager's report. He said once his flights arrived and were on the ground he closed his airport waiting for word that 305 had passed PDX. He classified the report involving his airport as "idiotic beyond belief!".

Just as a matter of logistics, if this plane was parked on the ground and the kid was just sitting in it listening to the radio, not talking back but just listening, I don't see how any airport manager would have any idea about it. They just would not know it was happening.

Further to the above, previous posters on this site have claimed that there were extremely bad storms in the Columbia River Gorge on the evening of the hijacking.  And since the airliner was headed to Reno, there is no point in flying east into those storms in the first place.

More, there is nothing in the transcripts to indicate that the airliner crew talked to ATC until they had already decided on the route to Reno in consultation with Al Lee, the NWA Chief Pilot in Seattle.

All communications from and to the airliner were over VHF radios and they are line-of-sight radios.  If there are hills or any other obstructions between the Shady Acres Airport and SEATAC, then it is unlikely that any such communications could be heard at Shady Acres in the two hours that the airliner was on the ground at SEATAC.

[Bruce A. Smith]

I don't disagree with any of y'all. Marianne's claims are far-out there. I'm just sharing a tidbit of news as it comes in.

G, no I didn't talk to the manager of the Troutdale airport because I didn't see any point to it. I doubt that 305 flew in his vicinity. Flying up the Columbia Gorge is as outlandish as flying over Cle Elum.

[georger]

Shady Acres is the airport where Marianne Lincoln, as a 14-year old girl, listened to the ATC and Seattle Center on her family's VHF radio in their plane. Marianne is the woman who is adamant that she heard the ATC and pilots discussing their eastern pathway over the Washougal River basin, turning eastwards at Troutdale, and flying up the Columbia River Gorge. She also said that Cooper demanded 400K and settled for 200K. Marianne says she listened to the cockpit's side of the negotiations and not the FBI's side - or vice-versa. I forget.

When this was run by the Manger of the Troutdale airport at the time, he strongly disputed this report and offered evidence to the contrary. For one thing he had several flights coming in which arrived and landed almost contiguous with 305 being near Vancouver/Portland. .... he offered a whole string of reasons and facts disputing this teenager's report. He said once his flights arrived and were on the ground he closed his airport waiting for word that 305 had passed PDX. He classified the report involving his airport as "idiotic beyond belief!".

Just as a matter of logistics, if this plane was parked on the ground and the kid was just sitting in it listening to the radio, not talking back but just listening, I don't see how any airport manager would have any idea about it. They just would not know it was happening.

A few airport managers were aware of the hijacking and made decisions about their airports ?  How they were aware or who notified them, I dont recall. Did these managers know the route 305 was taking? I dont know. I do recall the Troutdale manager saying he inquired the next day which side of Portland 305 had crossed on - the West he was told. He also noted some small airports closed their airports, in part due to the weather that night.

He told me he was waiting for two flights to come in when he got word about the hijacking, and he waited until his two flights had landed, then he closed the airport and waited for news that the hijacked flight had passed PDX.     

The guy might still be alive to interview? 

[Robert99]

A few airport managers were aware of the hijacking and made decisions about their airports ?  How they were aware or who notified them, I dont recall. Did these managers know the route 305 was taking? I dont know. I do recall the Troutdale manager saying he inquired the next day which side of Portland 305 had crossed on - the West he was told. He also noted some small airports closed their airports, in part due to the weather that night.

Chaucer is going to go ballistic when he reads that the Troutdale manager was told the airliner bypassed Portland on the west side (and thus supports the Western Flight Path).  But for the record, you told me the same thing 10+ years ago.

[Chaucer]

Why would I go ballistic?

I’m not married to any particular theory. That said, I’ll still take the word of the national military security apparatus than some lonely airport manager who probably spent most of his time beating off to Playboy centerfolds than listening in on radio transmissions.

[georger]

Why would I go ballistic?

I’m not married to any particular theory. That said, I’ll still take the word of the national military security apparatus than some lonely airport manager who probably spent most of his time beating off to Playboy centerfolds than listening in on radio transmissions.

what!? You have the longtime Troutdale airport manager at the time all wrong. He did not endorse some west path. The rest is uncalled for ... 305 passing on the west side of PDX does not indicate a west path ... or unicorns in Tibet either. 

In fact, not al small airports closed in spite of knowing about the hijacking .... there was no order to close all small airports ...  small plane air traffic was reported during the passage of 305 south and some of that traffic is documented in Part 2A that we just got. You can read several reports in 2A, pages 31?, 50s... etc.   

[Robert99]

Why would I go ballistic?

I’m not married to any particular theory. That said, I’ll still take the word of the national military security apparatus than some lonely airport manager who probably spent most of his time beating off to Playboy centerfolds than listening in on radio transmissions.

Chaucer, so you have a connection to "the national military security apparatus"?  I am impressed!  Is your base of operations in the Everglades?

[Robert99]

Why would I go ballistic?

I’m not married to any particular theory. That said, I’ll still take the word of the national military security apparatus than some lonely airport manager who probably spent most of his time beating off to Playboy centerfolds than listening in on radio transmissions.

what!? You have the longtime Troutdale airport manager at the time all wrong. He did not endorse some west path. The rest is uncalled for ... 305 passing on the west side of PDX does not indicate a west path ... or unicorns in Tibet either. 

In fact, not al small airports closed in spite of knowing about the hijacking .... there was no order to close all small airports ...  small plane air traffic was reported during the passage of 305 south and some of that traffic is documented in Part 2A that we just got. You can read several reports in 2A, pages 31?, 50s... etc.

Georger, so ". . .305 passing on the west side of PDX does not indicate a west path. . .".

Then just exactly what does it indicate?  Have you had any training in "logic"? 

[georger]

Why would I go ballistic?

I’m not married to any particular theory. That said, I’ll still take the word of the national military security apparatus than some lonely airport manager who probably spent most of his time beating off to Playboy centerfolds than listening in on radio transmissions.

what!? You have the longtime Troutdale airport manager at the time all wrong. He did not endorse some west path. The rest is uncalled for ... 305 passing on the west side of PDX does not indicate a west path ... or unicorns in Tibet either. 

In fact, not al small airports closed in spite of knowing about the hijacking .... there was no order to close all small airports ...  small plane air traffic was reported during the passage of 305 south and some of that traffic is documented in Part 2A that we just got. You can read several reports in 2A, pages 31?, 50s... etc.

Georger, so ". . .305 passing on the west side of PDX does not indicate a west path. . .".

Then just exactly what does it indicate?  Have you had any training in "logic"?

OK.

[Chaucer]

Why would I go ballistic?

I’m not married to any particular theory. That said, I’ll still take the word of the national military security apparatus than some lonely airport manager who probably spent most of his time beating off to Playboy centerfolds than listening in on radio transmissions.

Chaucer, so you have a connection to "the national military security apparatus"?

Do you? Because my point was that the powers that be all agree that 305 was on V-23 that night. I don’t have to have a connection to be able to read 302s and look at the evidence.

Honestly, I don’t understand why you feel the need to antagonize me with every post. If I have behaved in a way in the past that made you feel like every reply to my post had to be snarky and negative, I sincerely apologize.

I’d rather cooperate with you than fight. Yes, we disagree about the WFP, but that shouldn’t require us to attack each other at every turn.

Consider this an olive branch.

[Robert99]

Why would I go ballistic?

I’m not married to any particular theory. That said, I’ll still take the word of the national military security apparatus than some lonely airport manager who probably spent most of his time beating off to Playboy centerfolds than listening in on radio transmissions.

Chaucer, so you have a connection to "the national military security apparatus"?

Do you? Because my point was that the powers that be all agree that 305 was on V-23 that night. I don’t have to have a connection to be able to read 302s and look at the evidence.

Honestly, I don’t understand why you feel the need to antagonize me with every post. If I have behaved in a way in the past that made you feel like every reply to my post had to be snarky and negative, I sincerely apologize.

I’d rather cooperate with you than fight. Yes, we disagree about the WFP, but that shouldn’t require us to attack each other at every turn.

Consider this an olive branch.

Chaucer, you seem to be unaware that I have also claimed that the airliner was on V-23 except for the brief time in the Portland/Vancouver area when it wasn't.  And I think that I have pointed out that even in bypassing Portland on the west side it was never more than 3 or 4 miles from the edge of V-23.