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[Parrotheadvol]

Georger's synopsis of the RMB saga is pretty much as I understand it. Some fine points: Robert has never described fully how he got connected to Skipp Porteous, to my knowledge, but it's my understanding that RMB initiated the contact with Porteous and then wrote the book.

That would be correct, although RMB told a different story on DZ on 8/22/10: " I'd like to remind all you D.B. Cooper fans about something here: I am not a long-term Cooper case investigator. The book proposal itself came from Skipp Porteous, the man who was checking out Christiansen for four years previously. At the time the ms came to me, I knew just what the general public knew about the case. The only reason I am listed as the co-author is because of the interviews with Mike Watson, Katy Watson, and Dawn J.
Skipp and I agreed that the results of the interviews made it necessary for me to come aboard as co-author, although I was reluctant to do this because I'm also the managing editor of Adventure Books. But the interview job on these people was dropped into my lap, so I did it".

However, the comments by RMB on Skips blog a few years prior tell a different story:
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"Oh, I believe Sherlock Investigations hit it on the head with this one. I was 18 years old and grew up in Sumner, Washington, just down the street from Bonney Lake. On the measly salary paid Christiansen by the airline, there is no way he could have saved up $16,000 for the house in Bonney Lake. It would have taken him years. This is an old case, but it would interesting to know if any of his old bank records, or tax returns exist somewhere.

On a side note, anytime you feel like doing a book on this subject, drop me a line. You can find me at Adventure Books of Seattle. I'm the managing editor".


Now, in the grand scheme of things, I don't really think it matters how they hooked up. But it shows me two things that I think are important concerning RMB: (1) He lies. (2) If you read his comments, he was already convinced that Kenny was Cooper. This was before he interviewed a single person but yet he somehow concludes that "Sherlock Investigations hit it on the head". I guess that was the point where he saw dollar signs.

[georger]

Georger's synopsis of the RMB saga is pretty much as I understand it. Some fine points: Robert has never described fully how he got connected to Skipp Porteous, to my knowledge, but it's my understanding that RMB initiated the contact with Porteous and then wrote the book.

That would be correct, although RMB told a different story on DZ on 8/22/10: " I'd like to remind all you D.B. Cooper fans about something here: I am not a long-term Cooper case investigator. The book proposal itself came from Skipp Porteous, the man who was checking out Christiansen for four years previously. At the time the ms came to me, I knew just what the general public knew about the case. The only reason I am listed as the co-author is because of the interviews with Mike Watson, Katy Watson, and Dawn J.
Skipp and I agreed that the results of the interviews made it necessary for me to come aboard as co-author, although I was reluctant to do this because I'm also the managing editor of Adventure Books. But the interview job on these people was dropped into my lap, so I did it".

However, the comments by RMB on Skips blog a few years prior tell a different story:
 (You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login)

"Oh, I believe Sherlock Investigations hit it on the head with this one. I was 18 years old and grew up in Sumner, Washington, just down the street from Bonney Lake. On the measly salary paid Christiansen by the airline, there is no way he could have saved up $16,000 for the house in Bonney Lake. It would have taken him years. This is an old case, but it would interesting to know if any of his old bank records, or tax returns exist somewhere.

On a side note, anytime you feel like doing a book on this subject, drop me a line. You can find me at Adventure Books of Seattle. I'm the managing editor".


Now, in the grand scheme of things, I don't really think it matters how they hooked up. But it shows me two things that I think are important concerning RMB: (1) He lies. (2) If you read his comments, he was already convinced that Kenny was Cooper. This was before he interviewed a single person but yet he somehow concludes that "Sherlock Investigations hit it on the head". I guess that was the point where he saw dollar signs.

I ignore (try to) EVERYTHING RMB says.

The real question I pressed Gray about was: "how in blazes did you get hooked up with the Kenny story, in the first place"?  Gray's answer was simple. 'Porteous called me. He knew I was a writer, with connections. He said he had a story of interest'.    That is the whole story in a nutshell. Gray told me otherwise he never would have heard about KC or become involved. ..... he had other stories-investigations he was working on at the time.

It starts with Lyle Christiansen looking for a producer in NYC. Lyle meets with investigator Porteous who someone had told Lyle 'knew people, might know a producer personally...'. Porteous charged Lyle a fee and gave Lyle a producer's name - Lyle set up a meeting with the producer. A script was going to be needed so Lyle needed a writer. Porteous thought a while, put out feelers, and eventually called Geoff Gray.      Its as simple as that.

Geoff's New Yorker story about KC is very well done, very well researched, and Gray doesn't form any conclusions. Geoff simply presents the fact that some people are suggesting Kenny Christiansen was DB Cooper. The article is very well done. The article lead Gray to look further into the Cooper case ...... and the rest is history. To this day I am impressed with Geoff's original article, and how he handled the whole KC matter. It's a superb piece of writing imho and well researched. Gray did a ton of interviews and collected a lot of material on Kenny, before writing the article. Gray can be a very good researcher and writer.

How Blevins got involved in this matter, with or without Porteous, is another story completely.   

[georger]

The seed of this goes all the way back to Gray, Porteous, KC's brother, and then Blevins. Everything since then is frosting on a 'cake of corruption'. Blevins saw the Gray article on KC and thought - 'what a good idea for....' which is exactly what KC's brother was saying at the time. Galen Cook says that Porteous got involved because  Porteous was looking for money for his retirement. The central idea for everyone was a script, book,  and movie = dollar signs. It's a common equation. Porteous had referred KC's brother to a movie producer, Gray wrote his New Yorker article on KC which is the basis for a movie script, Gray forms a relationship with Crown Publishing for a book under his name, Gray launches a two year book promotion financed by Crown Publishing which turns Gray into a 'DB Cooper' case expert, earns him a relationship with the FBI (at Seattle), Porteous gets sick and starts to deteriorate, ... and somehow Blevins gets involved and forms some kind of alleged relationship with Skip Porteous and KC's brother in Minnesota for the purpose of making a movie ... Gray is shoved to the side and focuses on finishing-writing his bizarre book ... Gray and Kaye tangle and Gray outs me ... its a tale of deceit and corruption but it all goes back to this original relationship  between Gray ad Porteous and Lyle Christiansen, then Blevins gets involved somehow. Porteous dies, Gray moves on to other projects, and Blevins is left still proclaiming there is going to be a movie .... and now promoter Elvis Ulis is involved!

Somewhere in this cast of characters the Cooper case has been lost, or hopelessly confused, or has it?  This isn't science. This is pure politics with the 'promise' of science mixed in, and being alleged by the various players. None of this rises to the level of Shakespeare but, stagecraft is involved! The whole thing is amazingly sleazy! And DB Cooper may be laughing in his grave.

Fact is, none of this promotional stuff has anything to do with the Cooper case. People competing for recognition and credibility, accusing each other of having no credibility or 'credentials'! But it occupies 99% of people's time on Cooper forums. It derails anything else being accomplished - whatever the true facts of the Cooper Case are. 

Georger's synopsis of the RMB saga is pretty much as I understand it. Some fine points: Robert has never described fully how he got connected to Skipp Porteous, to my knowledge, but it's my understanding that RMB initiated the contact with Porteous and then wrote the book.

The relationship between Skipp and Geoffrey is a bit hazy, too. In my conversations with Geoffrey he indicated to me, and his subsequent actions certainly confirm that he had very little interaction with Porteous beyond the initial contact and delivery of the information about Kenny and Lyle. GG took it from there and Porteous became passive.

My conversations with Skipp revealed to me that he was not totally trustworthy or forthcoming, particularly when I asked about GG. Skipp downplayed the relationship and indicated that he only met GG once to talk KC. I found that hard to believe since they both lived in Manhattan at that time and GG was convinced he was gonna get a Pulitzer for this story. I knew GG to be a dogged A-List reporter willing to go anywhere to talk to anyone to get his story.

Georger is correct: RMB and Skipp never met, which I find incredible.

As for Georger, Kaye and GG in some kind of tangle, all I know is what G has told me and that is that Larry Carr first wanted Georger to be the head of the Citizen Sleuths. Initially, Georger agreed and formed a team, but G hit some funding bumps in the road with Larry and backed-out. When he did, G recommend Tom Kaye to Larry. LC then tapped Tom to lead the CS team, and he remains the team leader to this day.

As for promotion of DBC, I think it's not only a good idea, I think it is necessary, assuming all of the usual ethical standards are maintained, such as truth-telling and open-mindedness. Sadly, Lyle Christiansen is lacking in those areas, imho.

Further, gossiping, or at least talking about each other, seems to be part of the human condition. It might even be healthy as long as we don't back-stab or trash others. It certainly helps to put a researchers conclusions into a proper context, such as with RMB and KC.

Lastly, the trash-talking of RMB at the Mountain News goes on without end. It's a near-daily event and I delete 99% of what is posted. Just sayin'.

The relationship between Skipp and Geoffrey is a bit hazy, too. In my conversations with Geoffrey he indicated to me, and his subsequent actions certainly confirm that he had very little interaction with Porteous beyond the initial contact and delivery of the information about Kenny and Lyle. GG took it from there and Porteous became passive.

I asked Gray about this - my understanding is identical to yours. 

[georger]

the wiring attached to the dynamite would be the blasting cap. Cooper would have to have a break in the wiring somewhere. he was seen holding one wire..he had his hand in the briefcase a lot which could imply he was monitoring the second wire...

I cant find anywhere in any description, anything stating a blasting cap, or anything like it. Maybe I missed this. The only thing Tina said that comes close is her statement: 'and a wire going in there' referring to the clump of dynamite sticks. Either she didn't see a blasting cap if one was there ? ... who knows?

I asked a number of explosive experts what would happen if a blasting cap was set off in a group of flares ... most said "nothing, might blow the flares apart, but probably would not ignite them...".

Too bad Tina didnt take a photo of the bomb!    

[Parrotheadvol]

the wiring attached to the dynamite would be the blasting cap. Cooper would have to have a break in the wiring somewhere. he was seen holding one wire..he had his hand in the briefcase a lot which could imply he was monitoring the second wire...

I cant find anywhere in any description, anything stating a blasting cap, or anything like it. Maybe I missed this. The only thing Tina said that comes close is her statement: 'and a wire going in there' referring to the clump of dynamite sticks. Either she didn't see a blasting cap if one was there ? ... who knows?

I asked a number of explosive experts what would happen if a blasting cap was set off in a group of flares ... most said "nothing, might blow the flares apart, but probably would not ignite them...".

Too bad Tina didnt take a photo of the bomb!   

When I was working with dynamite, we would insert the blasting cap completely into each stick. So the cap itself would not be visible, only the wire going into the stick(s).

[Shutter]

Dynamite needs help exploding. as Parrot mentions the cap is inserted into the dynamite. it's a small charge that sets off the dynamite. I showed two pictures one shows the cap inside the dynamite. it doesn't take much power to set a single blasting cap.

blasting caps are about three inches long and a quarter inch in diameter...

the old school plungers were very strong because they need the the electric to travel down a long wire away from the blast. I wouldn't advise grabbing the leads of a plunger 

Using dynamite is rather simple. you need a power source, dynamite and a blasting cap. two wires come from the blasting cap and need to go to a power source. in this case it would be a battery. once you connect the two wires to the battery you have completed the circuit and the dynamite will explode...

[Shutter]

I asked a number of explosive experts what would happen if a blasting cap was set off in a group of flares ... most said "nothing, might blow the flares apart, but probably would not ignite them...".

They are about as explosive as a standard firecracker.

The number 6 dry cell batteries were a very good battery. they were used in pairs with telephones, radios and lanterns. most are two and a half inches in diameter and six and a quarter in height. some are two and three quarters in diameter.

[Shutter]

I would be interested in how he maintained everything in the briefcase. the battery is round and will roll around in transport. the dynamite would also shift around. a lot of unused real estate is left in the case. taking the descriptions into consideration it appears the battery and dynamite was separated or they would have better descriptions. dynamite is 8 inches long and the dry cell batteries are 6 inches long.

The case I purchased appears to be from the 60's and worth about $70. I got it for 6 bucks at goodwill 
18" X 12 1/2" X 3 1/2"

[Robert99]

I would be interested in how he maintained everything in the briefcase. the battery is round and will roll around in transport. the dynamite would also shift around. a lot of unused real estate is left in the case. taking the descriptions into consideration it appears the battery and dynamite was separated or they would have better descriptions. dynamite is 8 inches long and the dry cell batteries are 6 inches long.

The case I purchased appears to be from the 60's and worth about $70. I got it for 6 bucks at goodwill 
18" X 12 1/2" X 3 1/2"

I have an exact duplicate of the Samsonite briefcase you show.  I also have another version which differs only in that it has a depth of 5.0 inches.  I purchased both of these briefcases in the very late 1960s or very early 1970s.  I undoubtedly had the small one with me on an airliner on the night of the hijacking (but I was east of the Mississippi River).

The interior volume of the briefcase shown (after removing the folder sewn into the top portion) is about 1/3 of a cubic foot.  The interior dimensions are 17.5 by 12.25 by 2.75 inches.  All of this volume could not be utilized by Cooper. So after putting the dynamite and battery, or whatever, in the briefcase there would not be much room for anything else to fit in.

[Shutter]

You don't have to remove the folder. everything fits when closing. plenty of storage for small thing in the folder and the case itself...you still have 10 inches of width and 11 1/2 in depth with the battery and dynamite in place..

[Shutter]

Georger's synopsis of the RMB saga is pretty much as I understand it.

He's the biggest liar on these boards. his KC saga is full of holes. he's selling a book that he knows is full of false claims. that's the biggest of them all IMO. knowingly selling lies for profit. he has the nerve to go after others is what's funny...

[georger]

the wiring attached to the dynamite would be the blasting cap. Cooper would have to have a break in the wiring somewhere. he was seen holding one wire..he had his hand in the briefcase a lot which could imply he was monitoring the second wire...

Somebody should take some flares (fusees) and put a blasting cap in the group and set it off - just to see what happens. Will a blasting cap ignite a flare or a group of flares?  Cooper was either an actor (lots of stagecraft) and the bomb was a con... or he had a working incendiary of some kind ?   He was sitting right below where oxygen bottles were stored above his seats! He said he knew that!   

We just didn't get around to running the experiment, people got busy etc .....   but I regret we didn't run the test! I wish some certified people would run the test...  so far as I know neither the FBI or anyone else ever ran a test.

*Im serious. I just put the idea out via email to an FBI guy in his 40s ... this test needs to be run!!!! This guy I emailed and his friends could make this happen. I sent him all the testimony about the bomb as an incentive - he will laugh! Im going to bug them until something happens!  This test needs to happen, finally. If H was alive he would back this 100%! 

[fcastle866]

the wiring attached to the dynamite would be the blasting cap. Cooper would have to have a break in the wiring somewhere. he was seen holding one wire..he had his hand in the briefcase a lot which could imply he was monitoring the second wire...

Somebody should take some flares (fusees) and put a blasting cap in the group and set it off - just to see what happens. Will a blasting cap ignite a flare or a group of flares?  Cooper was either an actor (lots of stagecraft) and the bomb was a con... or he had a working incendiary of some kind ?   He was sitting right below where oxygen bottles were stored above his seats! He said he knew that!   

We just didn't get around to running the experiment, people got busy etc .....   but I regret we didn't run the test! I wish some certified people would run the test...  so far as I know neither the FBI or anyone else ever ran a test.

Ross Richardson was recently on The Cooper Vortex podcast.  He made an interesting observation about suicidal people, and how when they have decided they don't care anymore, they can sometimes become calm and collected.  It was in reference to Cooper not sweating (he may have been sweating, but not on his face).  Anyhow, this goes along with the question of whether the bomb was real or not.  If he was suicidal, or just did not care anymore, would that change what we think about the bomb?  He did have a few ways to commit suicide without harming anyone else (death by cop, or jumping and not pulling).

[georger]

the wiring attached to the dynamite would be the blasting cap. Cooper would have to have a break in the wiring somewhere. he was seen holding one wire..he had his hand in the briefcase a lot which could imply he was monitoring the second wire...

Somebody should take some flares (fusees) and put a blasting cap in the group and set it off - just to see what happens. Will a blasting cap ignite a flare or a group of flares?  Cooper was either an actor (lots of stagecraft) and the bomb was a con... or he had a working incendiary of some kind ?   He was sitting right below where oxygen bottles were stored above his seats! He said he knew that!   

We just didn't get around to running the experiment, people got busy etc .....   but I regret we didn't run the test! I wish some certified people would run the test...  so far as I know neither the FBI or anyone else ever ran a test.

Ross Richardson was recently on The Cooper Vortex podcast.  He made an interesting observation about suicidal people, and how when they have decided they don't care anymore, they can sometimes become calm and collected.  It was in reference to Cooper not sweating (he may have been sweating, but not on his face).  Anyhow, this goes along with the question of whether the bomb was real or not.  If he was suicidal, or just did not care anymore, would that change what we think about the bomb?  He did have a few ways to commit suicide without harming anyone else (death by cop, or jumping and not pulling).

The idea has crossed people's mind. 

[Shutter]

I'm wondering now if the bomb was real...

He had his hands in the briefcase a lot. could of been monitoring the second wire or the worse case, a gun was in the case.

Suicide? doubtful. it's a pretty thought out plan for suicide.