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[georger]

I am of the opinion that the hijacking was well thought out in advance. How about others? What do you guys and gals think? I would love to hear your opinions.

Let's check out some things.

1.  The NWA flight that was hijacked was only initiated about three months earlier.  And Cooper was specifically looking for a Boeing 727 aircraft.

2.  Being so late in the day before a national holiday, there was no guarantee that anyone could come up with $200,000 in cash.  Would Cooper have accepted a check otherwise?

3.  Sunset in Seattle that day was about 4:45 PM and Cooper said he wanted everything ready on the ground by 5:00 PM.  This guaranteed that he would be making a nighttime jump.  Did he have a flash light with him?

4.  Cooper appeared to be wearing what was more or less a business suit.  His shoes have been variously described but there is a high probability that he would lose them in the parachute opening.  Even if he didn't lose them, they probably would not survive a lengthy hike.

5.  He had a bit of knowledge about the aft stairs but didn't know how to lower them and had difficulty doing so even after being instructed on how to do it.

6.  It is a safe assumption that he routinely carried a pocket knife.  There was nothing onboard the airliner that he could use to cut the shroud lines of the chest chute that remained on the plane.

7.  The fact that his body was never found does not mean that he survived the jump.

Overall, to me it looks like extremely poor planning and even  worse execution.

#2 is patently false - money was available for any occasion any time. Banks and the FBI plan ahead. This wasn't their first rodeo. Cooper knew money would be delivered from some source.

About $500,000 was reportedly in the "fund" from which the hijack money was taken.  You are saying that this fund would not be in a time controlled vault at any time.  You are also saying that Cooper knew that the money was available from somewhere.  Do you have a source for these claims?  Otherwise, it just your speculations.

Are you saying they did not come up with the money from the SeafFirst bank, in a timely fashion, and Tina hauled the money on the plane for Cooper ..... ?  Cooper's demand certifies he thought it could be done.

Most people have those basic facts squared away by now!    Kind of makes your game playing pointless noise! Eh? Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. 

[Bruce A. Smith]

2.  Being so late in the day before a national holiday, there was no guarantee that anyone could come up with $200,000 in cash.  Would Cooper have accepted a check otherwise?

I've wondered about this. Yes, it is true that the FBI had begun stockpiling large sums of money for their anticipated crimes of extortion. But how did Cooper know that?

T'is a puzzlement.

So Cooper knew about 727s flying in the air with their aft stairs down, knew they could take off with the stairs deployed, knew the 727 had a wing-flap setting of 15 degrees, knew his plane should be refueled in 30 minutes, and knew the feddies could get him 200 Big Ones in a matter of hours.

Hmmmm. Smart guy, I'd say. Lots of research, too? Inside job? Someone coached him?

Hmmmmm II.

[georger]

2.  Being so late in the day before a national holiday, there was no guarantee that anyone could come up with $200,000 in cash.  Would Cooper have accepted a check otherwise?

I've wondered about this. Yes, it is true that the FBI had begun stockpiling large sums of money for their anticipated crimes of extortion. But how did Cooper know that?

T'is a puzzlement.

So Cooper knew about 727s flying in the air with their aft stairs down, knew they could take off with the stairs deployed, knew the 727 had a wing-flap setting of 15 degrees, knew his plane should be refueled in 30 minutes, and knew the feddies could get him 200 Big Ones in a matter of hours.

Hmmmm. Smart guy, I'd say. Lots of research, too? Inside job? Someone coached him?

Hmmmmm II.

He did not ask for the Queen of England to be in Seattle by 5:00pm and fly to Mexico with him. 

[haggarknew]

I think there might be other indications of pre-planning.   How about his choice of seating?  This seemed thought out in advance to me.   He was aware that chutes might come from McChord.  (he mentioned this didn't he?)  Why order to trim flaps and also order to fly at 200 mph? Why not just order to fly at 200 mph? Didn't the flap setting help stabilize the aircraft at that slower speed?  For that matter, why 200 mph?  I guess it was dumb luck that 200 mph was just above stall speed. (for 305) Also probably dumb luck that this speed would cause so many problems for pursuit planes.(interceptors)  Probably just lucky that they (305) didn't ice up?     He knew enough about the stairs to know they could be lowered in-flight.(as well as knowing that they could have taken off with them lowered). Didn't his problem with lowering the stairs come from the outside air pressure more than a lack of pre-plan? Yes I realize he didn't know where stair controls were located but he seemed to understand as soon as he was informed.      These are just some of the things that indicate some level of pre-planning. I think there are other indications as well.    Just my opinion. 

[georger]

I think there might be other indications of pre-planning.   How about his choice of seating?  This seemed thought out in advance to me.   He was aware that chutes might come from McChord.  (he mentioned this didn't he?)  Why order to trim flaps and also order to fly at 200 mph? Why not just order to fly at 200 mph? Didn't the flap setting help stabilize the aircraft at that slower speed?  For that matter, why 200 mph?  I guess it was dumb luck that 200 mph was just above stall speed. (for 305) Also probably dumb luck that this speed would cause so many problems for pursuit planes.(interceptors)  Probably just lucky that they (305) didn't ice up?     He knew enough about the stairs to know they could be lowered in-flight.(as well as knowing that they could have taken off with them lowered). Didn't his problem with lowering the stairs come from the outside air pressure more than a lack of pre-plan? Yes I realize he didn't know where stair controls were located but he seemed to understand as soon as he was informed.      These are just some of the things that indicate some level of pre-planning. I think there are other indications as well.    Just my opinion.

Mucklow stated: "In response to her query as to why he had chosen a Northwest airplane to hijack, he said ā€˜he had ā€œa grudge but not against Northwest Airlinesā€ adding ā€˜that the Northwest plane just happened to be in the right place at the right timeā€™

The building of a bomb requires time and intention specific to commandeering some type of public transport or perhaps a bank robbery. It sounds like he was waiting/looking for  the 'right plane in the right place at the right time.' He asked at the ticket counter if it was a 727. That establishes a plan to use the rear stairs of a plane for his escape via jumping. The means and location of his escape via parachute is unique. If he is successful and lands intact he will be difficult to find - but he must avoid people long enough to put distance between himself and interested parties. His crime is going to attract a lot of attention! The sooner he leaves the area the better.

There is more . . .   

[haggarknew]

I personally don't believe db's clothing would have been a major issue. His shoes might have been an issue but not something you couldn't overcome. They might have created problems with landing but after that I am not so sure. It wasn't really all that cold that night at least for someone used to being outside in it.(just my opinion)  I think the biggest problem would have been keeping his feet (and maybe the rest of him) dry. Maybe some garbage bags would work? I think hiking with the weight of the money and what ever else he was carrying would have created enough exertion to keep him warm. You might also argue that his choice in clothing might indicate that he wasn't planning to be exposed to the elements for any considerable length of time?

[haggarknew]

As per the ransom money....    Who all would have known that it would be available? Probably LE and some bank employees. It wasn't that big a secret was it?  My thoughts on how he might have known of the "fund" being available might be something better suited for a later date. I might argue that his choice of asking for 200,000 had something to do with how much weight he would be carrying when he parachuted? I am not sure how much of a factor that would have been? Maybe 377 would have an opinion on this.

[Robert99]

As per the ransom money....    Who all would have known that it would be available? Probably LE and some bank employees. It wasn't that big a secret was it?  My thoughts on how he might have known of the "fund" being available might be something better suited for a later date. I might argue that his choice of asking for 200,000 had something to do with how much weight he would be carrying when he parachuted? I am not sure how much of a factor that would have been? Maybe 377 would have an opinion on this.

Probably just the FBI and the senior managers at the bank that had been selected to hold the fund knew about it.  Cooper did not specify the denomination of the bills so weight could not have been a significant consideration for him.  He is lucky the FBI didn't send him 200,000 $1.00 bills.  Or, even worse, 200 $1000 bills, which would have been of little value to him since they would have been basically unpassable.

[Bruce A. Smith]

As per the ransom money....    Who all would have known that it would be available? Probably LE and some bank employees. It wasn't that big a secret was it? 

Apparently it was a secret, and stayed so for many years. In fact, we only learned about it in 2009 when Ckret at the DZ told us about the FBI's arrangement with banks and field offices to stockpile ransom money.

[haggarknew]

It must not have been the best kept secret. During one of our many discussions about the db case, Hager talked about knowing that there was money set aside for just this purpose. According to Hag, db also knew this. Supposedly, this is why db didn't specify what denominations of bills he wanted. Hag said db was already aware of denominations of bills in fund. I am not sure of the date of Hag and my conversation concerning the ransom. You have to remember that Hag died in March 2007 so obviously it was prior to this.

[georger]

As per the ransom money....    Who all would have known that it would be available? Probably LE and some bank employees. It wasn't that big a secret was it?  My thoughts on how he might have known of the "fund" being available might be something better suited for a later date. I might argue that his choice of asking for 200,000 had something to do with how much weight he would be carrying when he parachuted? I am not sure how much of a factor that would have been? Maybe 377 would have an opinion on this.

My guess is he gave no thought to the money - he may have even thought the money would come from NWO since airlines are rich and always have $200k laying around! (Thats a joke but it may not be far from what Cooper thought) Did he count the money in the bag brought on board? No evidence he did. He did look the chutes over. Hancock said he immediately turned his whole attention to the chutes once they were brought on board. He bitched about 'no knapsack' and immediately set about tearing a chute open to cut cord, and the issue of making a container for the money, according to Hancock and Tina.  I think "escape" was highest on his list of priorities, even above the money in importance. He got super-pissed when the socalled fueling issue stalled getting back in the air quickly. He didn't even bother restating his demand for a knapsack - he simply set about adapting a container. The whole hijacking is centered on the threat of a bomb. I think the next fact he was using was his identity and his assessment of how difficult it would be to trace and find him, if he could escape the area. I think that explains his reference to "the right place" for doing a hijacking. All of his other references are to the southern part of the US, Mexico, and Cuba - where most of the US hijackings were happening! I think he was socially conscious and aware of what was going on in the world. I think his grudge is partly personal but also political on a world stage. I think he went to an area of the world where he knew he would be difficult to find or dislodge if he identity was somehow revealed. The FBI did him a favor losing major forensic evidence!         

[haggarknew]

It is very disappointing that they lost the cig butts. Almost incomprehensible(sp?). Any chance they are blowing smoke about losing them?

[Bruce A. Smith]

It is very disappointing that they lost the cig butts. Almost incomprehensible(sp?). Any chance they are blowing smoke about losing them?

Yup.

1. Smokin'99 posted on the DZ that Ckret said the cigarettes were "processed" before being lost. So, plausibly, the "paperwork" on the processing is also "lost."

2. The DOJ and the US Congress investigated the FBI's National Crime Lab in 1996 due to ten-year's worth of whistleblower complaints about criminal and unprofessional conduct there by FBI agents and lab techs. They found dozens of instances of false findings, lost evidence, manufactured evidence, false testimony and falsified reports. For more details, see John F. Kelley's book, Tainting Evidence.

[georger]

It is very disappointing that they lost the cig butts. Almost incomprehensible(sp?). Any chance they are blowing smoke about losing them?

Yup.

1. Smokin'99 posted on the DZ that Ckret said the cigarettes were "processed" before being lost. So, plausibly, the "paperwork" on the processing is also "lost."

2. The DOJ and the US Congress investigated the FBI's National Crime Lab in 1996 due to ten-year's worth of whistleblower complaints about criminal and unprofessional conduct there by FBI agents and lab techs. They found dozens of instances of false findings, lost evidence, manufactured evidence, false testimony and falsified reports. For more details, see John F. Kelley's book, Tainting Evidence.

1. not necessarily. Storage of an item and paper work on processing results are two different matters. There would be a main file of lab results then copies sent out to all concerned ... in addition if an item was destroyed there would be paper work on that. Saying an item has been lost does not guarantee it no longer exists! Lost and destroyed are two entirely different things. I am willing to bet there is no paper work certifying that the butts was "Destroyed".   

I would like to see those results.

[haggarknew]

Back in the mid 2000's while discussing the case with Hag, the subject of forensics came up. Hag was convinced that as the science advanced it would lead us to db. (via dna from the cig butts) I believe this was a big factor in him telling me his story.          I like your analysis Georger. I would agree with escape being a high priority. It sounds like it was either escape or die. Didn't he say he wouldn't let them put him in jail, or something to that effect? I thought I recently read that in one of the newly released 302s. I think one of the stews might have mentioned that db stated this or something to this effect?   I used to think that the bomb wasn't real but I may have to reconsider. Any thoughts on this?