New Forum & News Updates

[georger]

Tom Kaye appears on Dropzone !   And then vanishes.  Blevins and FLYJAK taking the opportunity to run Hahenemann and Marla editorials, again. 

Marla 2019?     

Dingo poop and zombies found in Antarctica -  Blevins and FLYJAK mystified. Stay tuned. Oh the drama of it all!   

[377]

Marla 2019? well thats not such a bad idea. She is a LOT more appealing than a bunch of old guys talking about parachutes, flight paths, partial DNA and exotic metal particles. 

Marla did a hell of a job getting the FBI onboard, at least initially. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Blevins did a very good job debunking her claims but I tend to think they were made in good faith. Marla was a child when the event took place.

How about it Eric? Wanna spice up Coopercon?

377

[377]

And how about inviting Geoff Gray to give us his current perspective?

377

[377]

And someone should speak briefly about Himmelsbach. I am glad that I was able to speak with him personally. Jerry paved the way for that conversation and his vouching for me was a huge help in getting Ralph to open up.  I wish Jerry would attend Coopercon. He'd be the ideal person to speak about Himmelsbach who was a close friend.

I'd love to debate Jerry on the survivability of the jump. He has very solid military credentials in the area of jumping and survival, but I flat out disagree with his conclusion that Cooper almost certainly died on the jump. We had really cordial and mutually respectful private dialogue at the original Portland Symposium.

I sure wish Georger would come and speak. We need some new blood.

377

[377]

As predicted: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

377

[Robert99]

If Ballard finds her plane it will be as big as the Titanic find. I sure hope he succeeds.

Has anyone seen this? You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Skydiving next Saturday over Byron CA. Radio jumps and fun jumps. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Turning 70 soon. So happy to still be an active skydiver.

377

See You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

She thinks Ballard will not find anything ...  guess we will know more on Oct 20th.

Actually, they did find something.  Quoting from the NY Times article I referred to yesterday:

"It [Ballard's team] found debris from an old shipwreck.  It even spotted a soda can.  What it did not find was a single piece of the Lockheed Electra airplane flown in 1937 by Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan, which vanished during their doomed voyage around the world."

That is no surprise since there is absolutely nothing to suggest that Earhart ever headed to Gardner Island or, for that matter, that she had even heard of the island.  Perhaps Ballard will have better luck in 2021 when he searches the Howland Island area.  At least Earhart was trying to get to Howland. 

The shipwreck mentioned happened a few years before the Earhart flight when a ship nailed Gardner Island head on in the middle of the night while going at full speed.  A number of people were killed in that accident.  The South Pacific was not well mapped in the 1930s.  Shoals came and went and some islands (including Howland) were not correctly plotted.  So ships in that area usually stopped during the night and just drifted until daylight.

It will be interesting to see what Ballard has to say in the program this Sunday evening.

[georger]

If Ballard finds her plane it will be as big as the Titanic find. I sure hope he succeeds.

Has anyone seen this? You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Skydiving next Saturday over Byron CA. Radio jumps and fun jumps. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Turning 70 soon. So happy to still be an active skydiver.

377

See You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

She thinks Ballard will not find anything ...  guess we will know more on Oct 20th.

Actually, they did find something.  Quoting from the NY Times article I referred to yesterday:

"It [Ballard's team] found debris from an old shipwreck.  It even spotted a soda can.  What it did not find was a single piece of the Lockheed Electra airplane flown in 1937 by Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan, which vanished during their doomed voyage around the world."

That is no surprise since there is absolutely nothing to suggest that Earhart ever headed to Gardner Island or, for that matter, that she had even heard of the island.  Perhaps Ballard will have better luck in 2021 when he searches the Howland Island area.  At least Earhart was trying to get to Howland. 

The shipwreck mentioned happened a few years before the Earhart flight when a ship nailed Gardner Island head on in the middle of the night while going at full speed.  A number of people were killed in that accident.  The South Pacific was not well mapped in the 1930s.  Shoals came and went and some islands (including Howland) were not correctly plotted.  So ships in that area usually stopped during the night and just drifted until daylight.

It will be interesting to see what Ballard has to say in the program this Sunday evening.

The Smithsonian article I posted (twice) says it all, I think. Ballard may be looking in the wrong place according to the Smithsonian people. No solid reason to believe Earhart made it to Nick' island, especially with the gas issue she reported clear back at Howland. These 57 socalled radio transmissions TIGHAR claims are questionable. Anyone have a time viewer they can bring to this search?    If dolphins and whales could only talk!

[Robert99]

If Ballard finds her plane it will be as big as the Titanic find. I sure hope he succeeds.

Has anyone seen this? You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Skydiving next Saturday over Byron CA. Radio jumps and fun jumps. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Turning 70 soon. So happy to still be an active skydiver.

377

See You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

She thinks Ballard will not find anything ...  guess we will know more on Oct 20th.

Actually, they did find something.  Quoting from the NY Times article I referred to yesterday:

"It [Ballard's team] found debris from an old shipwreck.  It even spotted a soda can.  What it did not find was a single piece of the Lockheed Electra airplane flown in 1937 by Amelia Earhart and Fred Noonan, which vanished during their doomed voyage around the world."

That is no surprise since there is absolutely nothing to suggest that Earhart ever headed to Gardner Island or, for that matter, that she had even heard of the island.  Perhaps Ballard will have better luck in 2021 when he searches the Howland Island area.  At least Earhart was trying to get to Howland. 

The shipwreck mentioned happened a few years before the Earhart flight when a ship nailed Gardner Island head on in the middle of the night while going at full speed.  A number of people were killed in that accident.  The South Pacific was not well mapped in the 1930s.  Shoals came and went and some islands (including Howland) were not correctly plotted.  So ships in that area usually stopped during the night and just drifted until daylight.

It will be interesting to see what Ballard has to say in the program this Sunday evening.

The Smithsonian article I posted (twice) says it all, I think. Ballard may be looking in the wrong place according to the Smithsonian people. No solid reason to believe Earhart made it to Nick' island, especially with the gas issue she reported clear back at Howland. These 57 socalled radio transmissions TIGHAR claims are questionable. Anyone have a time viewer they can bring to this search?    If dolphins and whales could only talk!

You might check with Bruce about the "time viewer", but I have a copy of the appropriate logs and just about every book of any consequence related to the last flight.

[georger]

Dropzone.com is DOWN for everyone.
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[Bruce A. Smith]

Update of Cooper Con 2019 Road Tour


The tour will last 3-4 hours. We will start in Vancouver at a site to be determined the day before - Saturday, after the presentations. I'll call for a meeting of all interested parties, pass out maps, and see what kinds of logistics we might need. Probably meet on Sunday at my motel room parking lot, noon-ish. Maybe have breakfast with me, too, or at least watch me drink my morning coffee. Then we motor down SR 500 to SR 503 at Orchards. I will scout-out a Starbucks there, or closer to Hochinson, as our first stop (bathrooms, too!). There we'll discuss the FBI Flight Path and its revision in 1975 and why they thought they needed to move the jump spot from Battleground to Orchards, WA, thus putting the LZ at Hochinson instead of Amboy.

Regardless, we'll motor up SR 503 to Amboy and do two things. One is explore the Cedar Creek Rd area where the first ground search began. Secondly, we'll go to Bernice's which isn't too far away. We'll probably spend 30 minutes or so with Bernice. It's also the spot where at least one docu was filmed - the Mission Declassified episode on DBC. We'll also hear from Bernice about the FBI search of her property and all the surrounding homes and buildings. That search was quite extensive, and seems to have lasted a week or so.

Then, depending on the mood of everyone, we can motor off to Ariel and see the Tavern, the Merwin Dam, and the encampment ground for the 1972 ground search (more bathrooms!). It takes a good 20-30 minuets to get from Amboy to Ariel, even though it's only across the Lewis River.

After that, it's din-din at La Casa Tapatia in Woodland, which is the best Mexican food around. Woodland is also the home of Darren Schaefer and the former site of the FBI's HQ for its initial searches in November 1971. It's my understanding that Darren will be with us, so he might be able to provide more local color.

[Bruce A. Smith]

BTW. If anyone wants to scour the landscape and locals looking for the Amboy chute, we can pass by Nick's Tavern in Amboy, and you can investigate among the pool hustlers and barflies... I'll show where it is, but I ain't stopping. Not this time.

[Bruce A. Smith]

And someone should speak briefly about Himmelsbach. I am glad that I was able to speak with him personally. Jerry paved the way for that conversation and his vouching for me was a huge help in getting Ralph to open up.  I wish Jerry would attend Coopercon. He'd be the ideal person to speak about Himmelsbach who was a close friend.

I'd love to debate Jerry on the survivability of the jump. He has very solid military credentials in the area of jumping and survival, but I flat out disagree with his conclusion that Cooper almost certainly died on the jump. We had really cordial and mutually respectful private dialogue at the original Portland Symposium.

I sure wish Georger would come and speak. We need some new blood.

377

I concur. Eric is aware of our interest and sentiments.

[georger]

And someone should speak briefly about Himmelsbach. I am glad that I was able to speak with him personally. Jerry paved the way for that conversation and his vouching for me was a huge help in getting Ralph to open up.  I wish Jerry would attend Coopercon. He'd be the ideal person to speak about Himmelsbach who was a close friend.

I'd love to debate Jerry on the survivability of the jump. He has very solid military credentials in the area of jumping and survival, but I flat out disagree with his conclusion that Cooper almost certainly died on the jump. We had really cordial and mutually respectful private dialogue at the original Portland Symposium.

I sure wish Georger would come and speak. We need some new blood.

377

I concur. Eric is aware of our interest and sentiments.

Lots of lose ends and claims in the Cooper case, that may never get resolved. Some former, some current. Himm's belief Cooper bailed east of V23 was based on something, but no clear explanation of that from anyone. The claim was based on two elements: (a) a hydrologist's claim the Washougal might have been the source of the Ingram money, and (b) some latter-day speculation by Rataczak that they might have been miles east of V23 when Cooper jumped? But who was H speaking for? Himself, the FBI, the Portland office, or Seattle? Was it a consensus opinion when he was interviewed by the Oregonian and said (1976) 'Cooper bailed 12 miles north of Portland' - and the reporter published that without even clarifying "where" 12 miles north of is . . . To what extent were JT's searches coordinated with H or someone else?  Frankly, I doubt we will ever know.  It's just one more lose end in NORJAK.

Moreover, I will no more than type this and click 'send', then someone will write their own version and send it to contradict everything Ive said!  Without any doubt, there are actual facts that explain this history, or supposed history if that's what it is. H is gone. He didn't explain much when he was here and he isn't going to explain much now! And nobody else seems ready to explain it either . . . 

[andrade1812]

Unfortunately, the hydrologist has not contacted me despite requests through his company for an informal interview. I will keep trying, but I am guessing he wants to stay out of this zoo. Can't say I blame him.

[georger]

Unfortunately, the hydrologist has not contacted me despite requests through his company for an informal interview. I will keep trying, but I am guessing he wants to stay out of this zoo. Can't say I blame him.

JT says it was Scott or Rataczak, not the hydrologist in 1980,  who convinced H near his retirement that the NWA search map was wrong and the plane "was in the Washougal water basin when Cooper jumped".