Author Topic: New Forum & News Updates  (Read 1921024 times)

Offline smokin99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #615 on: September 05, 2015, 10:42:16 AM »
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I found more info on the original transcripts. the crew also asked where the meals were, and wondered how they got on the plane. Cooper gave the ok to retrieve the meals, and the maps. Paul S. appears to have supplied the maps to the crew...

But we still dont know if he sent them in response to cooper request
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #616 on: September 05, 2015, 10:42:27 AM »
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"at this point, she gave him a paper sheet giving instructions on how to jump and she said he didn't need that"

He also had opened the reserve chute before all the chutes were on board.

Seeing Cooper tying the money to his waste wasn't the last noted evidence before closing the curtain. she pleaded with him to take the bomb. he stated he would either take it with him, or disarm it..

Yes some of this is very interesting in light of what we've been told. Of course there are a lot of missing pages still so there may be more to story. But if I had time /inclination it would be interesting to chart out the differences.


Perhaps we will get more info as time goes by. for now, we still have the new car smell, and lots of sorting to do  ;D
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #617 on: September 05, 2015, 10:45:49 AM »
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I found more info on the original transcripts. the crew also asked where the meals were, and wondered how they got on the plane. Cooper gave the ok to retrieve the meals, and the maps. Paul S. appears to have supplied the maps to the crew...

But we still dont know if he sent them in response to cooper request


Even though the crew could of requested both items. I would think this would be brought to Cooper's attention. would he allow for things to come on board he isn't aware of? he wouldn't have much control of the things if he didn't know what was coming, or going on the plane?
 

Offline smokin99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #618 on: September 05, 2015, 11:37:50 AM »
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I found more info on the original transcripts. the crew also asked where the meals were, and wondered how they got on the plane. Cooper gave the ok to retrieve the meals, and the maps. Paul S. appears to have supplied the maps to the crew...

But we still dont know if he sent them in response to cooper request


Even though the crew could of requested both items. I would think this would be brought to Cooper's attention. would he allow for things to come on board he isn't aware of? he wouldn't have much control of the things if he didn't know what was coming, or going on the plane?

Certainly not decided in my mind one way or the other ....just pretty hard for me to dismiss straight away the statement "He wanted maps".

Like Anderson, no one ever talks about Hancock - but wasn't she the senior member of the Attendant crew. I just don't see how she could not have been in the loop - for guidance if nothing else - why would she say He wanted maps and meals. I can see "he said we could have maps and meals, or he let us get maps /meals. No --she says He wanted them - that had to come from somewhere...and if I not mistaken - will have to look - Cooper requesting meals is referenced another place also. To me, the idea that he might have requested maps -regardless of reason -is a pretty important piece of the story that has been left out...
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #619 on: September 05, 2015, 11:49:56 AM »
It appears it will take some sorting to figure this one out.....

Bruce brought up a point while I was talking to him on the phone a while back. at what point was Mitchell sitting in the back row? they pushed all of the passengers forward, and where was he when Cooper opened the briefcase? would Cooper do this with Mitchell right there?
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 11:50:45 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #620 on: September 05, 2015, 12:10:24 PM »
Demand #5 "He wanted maps"

This was before the plane landed. he also gives clues of not knowing where he was going, so what maps could he get?

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« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 12:30:07 PM by Shutter »
 

Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #621 on: September 05, 2015, 12:44:44 PM »
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Demand #5 "He wanted maps"

This was before the plane landed. he also gives clues of not knowing where he was going, so what maps could he get?

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I agree with Smokin that Cooper was asking for a map not related to the aeronautical charts and approach plates.  Before the airplane even landed in Seattle, Al Lee (NWA's Chief Pilot in Seattle) was working on getting entire sets of Western USA aeronautical charts and plates, as well as International aeronautical charts and plates, ready for the flight crew.

Normally, the flight crew would only be carrying charts and plates related to their route and adjacent areas and only for airports that could handle a 727.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #622 on: September 05, 2015, 01:11:55 PM »
R99 has supplied two more documents that can also be found in the "Cooper Vault"

They are in a Jpeg format you can either click to enlarge the photo, or right click to save.. thanks R99!

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« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 01:12:22 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #623 on: September 05, 2015, 01:32:53 PM »
The maps are confusing. makes one wonder what type of maps, or why he didn't have them already. maps were easily found in 1971. it's possible he asked for specific maps to throw them off of where he was going to jump? it's odd they can't recall a very important clue?
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 01:35:05 PM by Shutter »
 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #624 on: September 05, 2015, 01:53:42 PM »
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I found more info on the original transcripts. the crew also asked where the meals were, and wondered how they got on the plane. Cooper gave the ok to retrieve the meals, and the maps. Paul S. appears to have supplied the maps to the crew...

But we still dont know if he sent them in response to cooper request


Even though the crew could of requested both items. I would think this would be brought to Cooper's attention. would he allow for things to come on board he isn't aware of? he wouldn't have much control of the things if he didn't know what was coming, or going on the plane?

Certainly not decided in my mind one way or the other ....just pretty hard for me to dismiss straight away the statement "He wanted maps".

Like Anderson, no one ever talks about Hancock - but wasn't she the senior member of the Attendant crew. I just don't see how she could not have been in the loop - for guidance if nothing else - why would she say He wanted maps and meals. I can see "he said we could have maps and meals, or he let us get maps /meals. No --she says He wanted them - that had to come from somewhere...and if I not mistaken - will have to look - Cooper requesting meals is referenced another place also. To me, the idea that he might have requested maps -regardless of reason -is a pretty important piece of the story that has been left out...

I think you have to place Cooper's requests/statements in context. Cooper is saying a number of things that leave an 'impression' without necessarily being true. He is trying to control the crew and the hijacking through impressions. One impression is that he is technically competent without that necessarily being true - many examples of that. He orders "meals for the crew". Nice guy! Very thoughtful. He is hijacking their airplane and depriving people of their liberty but ordering "meals for the crew"? That's pretty funny. And other things he says falls into the same context.

Maps may fall into the same category. "Going to a pleasant place"! This leaves the impression of a long perhaps even uncertain journey ahead. He (no else else) brings up HAVANA! ??? The overall impression is a long undefined journey which ultimately could take them anywhere.

Cooper then turns around and bails early over Washington. No maps or meals required! They could have landed in Portland!

This is a Hijacking! You can't take everything Cooper says at face value. Cooper is manipulating everyone if he can.
He may have had a plan but it wasn't the plan he laid out if you take his actual actions literally, but he had a captive audience literally.

Second, Cooper is a manipulator. He had strong social skills/perceptions. He sorted out who he was going to use and not use very quickly. He chose Mucklow (more submissive) over Schaffner (resistant) very quickly.

He says he had a bomb made of dynamite but we don't know if that's true. He says his bomb is "electronic" and might be set off by "radio communications"? That is a pure attempt to control the crew using the radio. I mean they are on an airplane in the first place. Airplanes by their nature are electrical. So he brings on a bomb that could be trigger electrically by normal electrical activity on the plane? (I think not. Not unless he was suicidal). He tells Mucklow that he knows about the oxygen bottles ... but he never reached up and got an oxygen bottle out or even identified the place they were stored right above his head, to demonstrate his supposed technical knowledge. Then he cant get the rear door open! Then he tells the crew to lower the stairs where in fact they have no such capability in the cockpit. And it goes on and on and on ...

Don't take everything "Cooper" says at face value.

 :)   



 
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 02:04:05 PM by georger »
 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #625 on: September 05, 2015, 02:00:21 PM »
I have long argued that they probably did go to the back and search for Cooper and the bomb after he bailed, and they realised he had bailed. The basis of my suspicion is in the PI Transcripts:

11:08      
305:      Reno? Ok uh, I’ll tell you what – stand by just a moment.
      We’re uh, we’re gonna look back here and see what’s going on.
Reno:      Ok.


The Mucklow PA interview articulates that in fact they did 'look in the back' and Mucklow details the search the crew conducted looking for for Cooper and the bomb just prior to landing at Reno. That matter is now closed. This corroboration restores some faithe in the PI Transcripts.


 

« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 02:06:31 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #626 on: September 05, 2015, 02:01:27 PM »
He gives the impression that electronics could set off the bomb, but he has the connection broken. it's impossible for this to take place. at the same time he is trying to control, or limit the transmissions from 305 to the ground by stating the bomb once again could be set off with transmissions...
 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #627 on: September 05, 2015, 02:08:12 PM »
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He gives the impression that electronics could set off the bomb, but he has the connection broken. it's impossible for this to take place. at the same time he is trying to control, or limit the transmissions from 305 to the ground by stating the bomb once again could be set off with transmissions...

Yes we know. He is leaving impressions. He is not dispensing facts.

Are you saying he didn't know the difference? I'm betting he did know the difference and was just spreading BS in order to try and control the crew etal.

It obviously didn;t deter the crew from using the radio - did it!  :) :) The crew didn;t buy it.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 02:10:08 PM by georger »
 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #628 on: September 05, 2015, 02:12:19 PM »
I want to know who and what the source of these files is.

Gray? Snowmman? Jo Weber?

Like Bruce I am suspicious Gray is mixed up in this and I have very concrete reasons (from prior conversation with Gray) for thinking this -

I will leave it at that.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #629 on: September 05, 2015, 02:16:56 PM »
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He gives the impression that electronics could set off the bomb, but he has the connection broken. it's impossible for this to take place. at the same time he is trying to control, or limit the transmissions from 305 to the ground by stating the bomb once again could be set off with transmissions...

Yes we know. He is leaving impressions. He is not dispensing facts.

Are you saying he didn't know the difference? I'm betting he did know the difference and was just spreading BS in order to try and control the crew etal.


I don't think it matters if the bomb was real, or fake. he was bluffing. if it was a bomb with a timer on it, then you might be nervous around electronics, because it's ready to go. Cooper had the connection separated and knew it couldn't go off unless he connected the wires. I see enough clues to call it fake, unless he was worried about prints. he said he would either take it with him, or disarm it. obviously he took it with him, or tossed it?

It appears he made it look very real and there is still a possibility it was, but I'm about 70-30% it wasn't...

I'm not sure you can even consider his bomb electronic?
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 02:26:14 PM by Shutter »