New Forum & News Updates

[georger]

Bruce, why are you not going?

I was asked to skipper the boat so that Eric could talk to the passengers about Cooper. However, I don't have the skills necessary to ensure the safety of 14 passengers on the Columbia in a 28-foot pontoon boat. In fact, I think a bona-fide captain of some kind - USCG-certified or not - is required here. Further, I recommended to Eric that he postpone the whole outing until all the arrangements and regulations were in place. He chose otherwise. I felt I could not support that decision with my presence, so I opted out.

Did you ever interview SA Loren Lindsey who was at the Portland office in 1980?

[haggarknew]

As per last few posts....     Sorry for my ignorance Georger, who is this S.A. from the Porland office?    Sorry about the boat trip Bruce. I was looking forward to hearing about it from your perspective.           As far as the other stuff involving you know who, damn Shutter all I wanted was to see some pics from the wild country of the Pacific N.W.    I think I see why it would be better not to engage in any small talk with you know who.   Live and learn I guess.

[Shutter]

Bruce, why are you not going?

I was asked to skipper the boat so that Eric could talk to the passengers about Cooper. However, I don't have the skills necessary to ensure the safety of 14 passengers on the Columbia in a 28-foot pontoon boat. In fact, I think a bona-fide captain of some kind - USCG-certified or not - is required here. Further, I recommended to Eric that he postpone the whole outing until all the arrangements and regulations were in place. He chose otherwise. I felt I could not support that decision with my presence, so I opted out.

I believe accepting money would apply to being a business and would require a licence to function as a business. liability coverage becomes a factor. as a business the state of Florida requires a million dollar liability policy on vehicles going on job sites.

[Shutter]

As per last few posts....     Sorry for my ignorance Georger, who is this S.A. from the Porland office?    Sorry about the boat trip Bruce. I was looking forward to hearing about it from your perspective.           As far as the other stuff involving you know who, damn Shutter all I wanted was to see some pics from the wild country of the Pacific N.W.    I think I see why it would be better not to engage in any small talk with you know who.   Live and learn I guess.

Correct. I noticed he accused you of being from Bruce's site or one of the guys making nasty comments about him.

[georger]

As per last few posts....     Sorry for my ignorance Georger, who is this S.A. from the Porland office?    Sorry about the boat trip Bruce. I was looking forward to hearing about it from your perspective.           As far as the other stuff involving you know who, damn Shutter all I wanted was to see some pics from the wild country of the Pacific N.W.    I think I see why it would be better not to engage in any small talk with you know who.   Live and learn I guess.

Hang on until I get a reply from Smith - SA Loren Lindsey, Paul Hudson, Dorwin 'Dorey' Schreuder ... were all at Portland and worked the excavation in 1980.

[Robert99]

Bruce, why are you not going?

I was asked to skipper the boat so that Eric could talk to the passengers about Cooper. However, I don't have the skills necessary to ensure the safety of 14 passengers on the Columbia in a 28-foot pontoon boat. In fact, I think a bona-fide captain of some kind - USCG-certified or not - is required here. Further, I recommended to Eric that he postpone the whole outing until all the arrangements and regulations were in place. He chose otherwise. I felt I could not support that decision with my presence, so I opted out.

Did you take part in the Portland riots?  If so, which side?

[andrade1812]

Bruce, why are you not going?

I was asked to skipper the boat so that Eric could talk to the passengers about Cooper. However, I don't have the skills necessary to ensure the safety of 14 passengers on the Columbia in a 28-foot pontoon boat. In fact, I think a bona-fide captain of some kind - USCG-certified or not - is required here. Further, I recommended to Eric that he postpone the whole outing until all the arrangements and regulations were in place. He chose otherwise. I felt I could not support that decision with my presence, so I opted out.

It's just a pontoon ride 

Not crossing the Atlantic...

[Bruce A. Smith]

Did you ever interview SA Loren Lindsey who was at the Portland office in 1980?

No. Nor Paul Hudson.

Have you? What makes you ask?

[Bruce A. Smith]

Bruce, why are you not going?

I was asked to skipper the boat so that Eric could talk to the passengers about Cooper. However, I don't have the skills necessary to ensure the safety of 14 passengers on the Columbia in a 28-foot pontoon boat. In fact, I think a bona-fide captain of some kind - USCG-certified or not - is required here. Further, I recommended to Eric that he postpone the whole outing until all the arrangements and regulations were in place. He chose otherwise. I felt I could not support that decision with my presence, so I opted out.

I believe accepting money would apply to being a business and would require a licence to function as a business. liability coverage becomes a factor. as a business the state of Florida requires a million dollar liability policy on vehicles going on job sites.

Yup. OR is not any diff.

Although dealing with all the regs is painful, I do understand the necessity of them to ensure the highest degree of safety for the general public. In the course of two hours on unfamiliar waters that are wide and deep, a lot can happen. Fortunately, I heard today from Eric that nothing happened and the trips were highly successful.

I look forward to the next sail when there can be a higher margin of safety for all.

[Bruce A. Smith]

Did you take part in the Portland riots?  If so, which side?

Nope. I'm not a rioting kind of guy. Remember, the pen is mightier than the sword - hence, I just write about it all...

...Why do you ask, Robert?

[Bruce A. Smith]

Bruce, why are you not going?

I was asked to skipper the boat so that Eric could talk to the passengers about Cooper. However, I don't have the skills necessary to ensure the safety of 14 passengers on the Columbia in a 28-foot pontoon boat. In fact, I think a bona-fide captain of some kind - USCG-certified or not - is required here. Further, I recommended to Eric that he postpone the whole outing until all the arrangements and regulations were in place. He chose otherwise. I felt I could not support that decision with my presence, so I opted out.

It's just a pontoon ride 

Not crossing the Atlantic...

True.

But I was a recreation therapist in psych for 14 years and I've seen a few things happen. Once, I almost lost a patient to a drowning in the ocean and he was a superb athlete who knew how to swim - and we were only in chest-deep waters. Shit happens...

[georger]

Bruce, why are you not going?

I was asked to skipper the boat so that Eric could talk to the passengers about Cooper. However, I don't have the skills necessary to ensure the safety of 14 passengers on the Columbia in a 28-foot pontoon boat. In fact, I think a bona-fide captain of some kind - USCG-certified or not - is required here. Further, I recommended to Eric that he postpone the whole outing until all the arrangements and regulations were in place. He chose otherwise. I felt I could not support that decision with my presence, so I opted out.

It's just a pontoon ride 

Not crossing the Atlantic...

True.

But I was a recreation therapist in psych for 14 years and I've seen a few things happen. Once, I almost lost a patient to a drowning in the ocean and he was a superb athlete who knew how to swim - and we were only in chest-deep waters. Shit happens...

I tend to agree. When I worked for Voc Rehab we had a picnic near a lake and one man had a seizure and fell face-first into the lake! The State Office went berserk and cancelled all further outings of this nature ...

The minute you set yourself up to be responsible for the welfare of the public, you are taking on a lot of responsibility!   

[Bruce A. Smith]

I concur completely.

And the bureaucracies that deal with these kinds of outings are merciless, imho.

[haggarknew]

as per last couple of posts.....   For what little it's worth,  I think I would have made the same decision as Bruce.  That seems like a lot of responsibility to take on.(the safety of the passengers) Are there any pics of the boat trips posted anywhere?   Sorry for my ignorance but what are the Portland riots?   As far as you know who, I honestly just wanted to see some pics of the beautiful Pacific northwest scenery. My family likes to camp and I was curious to what the campsites looked like in these locations. My fault, should have known better I guess. I won't make that mistake again.

[fcastle866]

To clarify things.....

Flyjack is referring to the calculations used in a PDF about drift factors. he believes it would drift a lot further than the calculations R99 speaks of. nobody has shown any calculations (publicly). the drift distance basically tells that. he's quoted that several times.

I never asked you to post anything about his comments. I simply responded to the comment due to a complaint. I've already mentioned that I'm not siding with anyone.

I have posted several documents surrounding who made the map and references to the Portland area multiple times with people still responding saying nothing has every ever been shown? actual FBI documents and nobody see's them or cares to acknowledge them.

"The crew of the above airline has now spotted a possible area for this suspected departure of the hijacker to be over the lake Merwin, near, Woodland, Washington"

The quote above is troubling trying to move the path away from the Lake Merwin area.

The document below (posted twice) clearly states where the map came from.

Are we now compelled to believe these statements and documents are diversions. the radar operators are wrong, and now the pilots. where does it end?

I'm not debating whether the map was provided by McChord AFB. I'm debating whether it's accurate.

I'm not sure exactly what Shutter is referring to but the take-off time from SEATAC was 7:36PM PST according to Captain Scott and that time was used in all my calculations.

The time that the placard separated from the airliner is not known but could be estimated if the flight path was accurately known.  The time of the jump was estimated by the flight crew as being about 8:11 or 8:12PM PST.  And at that time, the airliner was in the vicinity of Tina Bar.

The flight crew did NOT know their exact location at the time of the jump and, according to Rataczak, told the people on the ARINC hook-up to "mark your maps".  This means that the airliner was NOT on V-23 at the time of the jump but was being vectored by ATC direct from the Malay Intersection to the Canby Intersection and bypassing Portland on the west side.

Lake Merwin doesn't figure into this in any realistic manner.  The towns of Woodland and La Center are both WEST of the centerline of V-23.  Since it was night time and the airliner was above an overcast and several other layers of clouds, the flight crew would NOT be able to give a jump location based on visual sightings of landmarks on the ground.

Robert99: Do you think there is any chance that Cooper knew where he was when he jumped or is it safe to say he only knew that he was somewhere between Seattle and Portland?