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[georger]

Bohan's wife has none of her husband's flight logs etc! Why would she!? She never had. Nada! We went over all of this years ago ... its a dead end. Go back and read the thread at DZ!

Bohan's widow told me she had her husband's flight logs, and remembers him telling his story of November 24, 1971.  "We went over all of this years ago."  Really? You mean, you went over this years ago and made your pontifical announcement back then?

So call her and let's see what you come up with. 

[Bruce A. Smith]

So...At first read, Some observations and items of interest:
#1 = 2nd Officer (Bill R.??),
#2 = 3rd officer (Anderson??),
#3 = Tina at time of hijacking,
#4 = Captain Scott,
#5 = Tina - Dec 1,2, in PA
#6 = Flo pgs 21-26 and Alice, # 54-56

Yup, Smok - that's how I read the transcripts:

Second Officer was Bill Rataczak on page 1; third officer was HE Anderson on page 2. Page 3 was Tina's debrief in Reno, while page 5 is a second debrief in Trevose, Pennsylvania, which is her home town, north of Philly.

Captain Scott had zip to say on Page 4. Boy, that was revealing!!! Page 6 is a combo of Flo, first, and then Alice Hancock at the end. I spent all afternoon reading and taking notes.

Thanks, so much Shut and Reichenbach. I do believe these transcripts are the ones that Geoffrey Gray drew his information from for his book. Very solid stuff.

[georger]

Are the files accessible? I haven't heard anything from anyone. uploading PDF files is new to me, so I'm having a little trouble getting them embedded onto the site, so I put direct links to them.

Hi all -- hope everyone is doing good.... guess we haven't solved the case yet, Huh?
I was able to read the files - 6 files, correct? Good stuff. My FAA and FBI foia went absolutely nowhere.... Good stuff! glad to see someone has connections

So...At first read, Some observations and items of interest:
#1 = 2nd Officer (Bill R.??),
#2 = 3rd officer (Anderson??),
#3 = Tina at time of hijacking,
#4 = Captain Scott,
#5 = Tina - Dec 1,2, in PA
#6 = Flo pgs 21-26 and Alice, # 54-56

1. One of the hostesses, I think on one of the Tina interviews said she saw bank bands around the money, not rubber bands.
2. He requested maps??
3. They didn't think to pinpoint exact location of "oscillation" - but they were around suburbs of Portland..I know we've heard this before but it just further makes one wonder about how they came up with the search area that they ended  up with..
4. What's up with the 2nd and 3rd officer designations....If who they are calling the 3rd officer is Anderson, I don't think I've ever read where he had that much to say about it -- that interview sounds more like Bill R. Am I mis-reading something?
I've got more, but these are good to start.....thoughts?

1) She doesn't specify 'paper' bands vs rubber bands - just "bank bands" which could be anything.  If you recall Larry found and talked to the guy who wrapped the bundles at the bank that day - he used rubber bands not paper bands. The team had to get this nailed down and Larry apparently did. Larry/we discussed this with Ingram and Ingram's mother who says "definitely rubber bands, not paper".

2) Yes, somebody requested maps. Did Mucklow give Cooper maps he requested? Maps were brought on with crew meals. Cooper requested meals for the crew. So who requested the maps and which maps? Because in the PI Transcript it refers to 'you should have the maps .. we sent up maps'. The crew was going to be given flight maps in any event. Maps needs clarification.

3) "in the suburbs of Portland" fits with what Larry said Rataczak told him.

4) 1st officer: Scott      2nd officer: Bill Rataczak      3rd officer & Flight Engineer: Harold 'Andy' Anderson.
I think there may be some confusion in these interviews as to who is saying what, being interviewed, and the references may be mixed ... interviews may even be mixed? Im not sure at this point but I know the confusion you are talking about. One witnesses is interviewed at her home in PA (Mucklow or Schaffner ?). Anderson has given very few interviews since the hijacking. It was Anderson who went on the test flight and confirmed 'oscillations vs bump'.
Again, Harold Anderson is the 3rd officer/Flight Engineer.

 


 

[Shutter]

2) Yes, somebody requested maps. Did Mucklow give Cooper maps he requested? Maps were brought on with crew meals. Cooper requested meals for the crew. So who requested the maps and which maps? Because in the PI Transcript it refers to 'you should have the maps .. we sent up maps'. The crew was going to be given flight maps in any event. Maps needs clarification.

I believe the crew asked for maps, and plates. plates are an aviation term. they give them the information needed to land at any given airport. could there request somehow have gotten onto the list of Cooper's demands?

[georger]

I'm not sure what maps he requested. it seems that would give a good idea as to his intentions. I don't think they were aviation maps since he didn't care other than to fly south. the big question is whether they are talking about the oscillation, or the pressure bump...nobody mentions a word about the bump....how about the green paper bag?


Added" Hi Smokin, glad to see ya back...forgive my manners, I'm doing several things here at one time, and it really isn't working out to well 

Green bag...Marshall Fields
Further confirmation that they had at least one potential opportunity to leave the plane and the hijacker...but that could be Monday morning quarterbacking.
"Uncirculated" US bills and "small" bills was both mentioned -- I think that what we've been told about his lack of specificity in money demands might have been misleading.....
I also thought it was interesting that she said he talked like he knew the plane could take off with door open and stairs down, but yet he didn't know how to operate them....that smacks of someone that might have seen the open doors in use, but not from the stance of one familiar enough to know how to operate.

Yes! Small Green Paper Bag.    What happened to the "small brown paper bag" ?  Funny!  I may be losing my mind here but didn't Joe say something once about a "small green paper bag" ?  Oh God I hope not! 

I also caught the issue of his technical knowledge of the plane, rear door and stairs, and I wonder if Mucklow would be a good judge of who has technical knowledge of flying, the 727 in particular, etc? There is something about this that doesn't resonate with me. It comes down whether Mucklow would be a good judge of technical knowledge or not because if you note she says this was her general impression but she can;t cite specifics much beyond  "he knew where the oxygen bottles were" which turns out to be "he said he knew where the oxygen bottles were but there is nothing saying "he showed Mucklow where the oxygen bottles were" ? It's all a little vague, to me.

One point I do want to make about these "transcriptions": they are very redundant and full of legalese and FBI speak at times. How many times *at this time* do you need to identify who it is that's being identified, who you have already identified 40 times, in a kind of double-speak redundancy. That superfluous FBI speak and it frankly works to confuse the reader at time, for my taste! Oh well. *At this time I will post this *at this time, at this time! That's an example of what I am talking about ...
       

[georger]

One of my favorites is "the plane was in the right place, at the right time"

Was he looking for a 727? apparently, Northwest wasn't the target. kinda shoots another hole in the KC saga...

And, maybe it was - literally! And if that is the case, well, this is a crime of opportunity and may not have been completely planned out. It may not be anyone from the State of Washington or Oregon but some outsider passing through. It almost sounds like somebody looking for a ride home ... to Cuba with $200,000 in Negotiable US currency?    Going to a "pleasant place"?     This guy was on vacation, ran out of money, and needed a ride home to .... Havana ... he he brings up HAVANA to Mucklow!     Would Kenny be talking about "pleasant place Havana"?

I think these transcripts swing the doors wide open on who and what Cooper was.

 

[Shutter]

Jo stated something green hanging from his leg, or something to that effect. it's in the Carr files from WSHS.

[georger]

So...At first read, Some observations and items of interest:
#1 = 2nd Officer (Bill R.??),
#2 = 3rd officer (Anderson??),
#3 = Tina at time of hijacking,
#4 = Captain Scott,
#5 = Tina - Dec 1,2, in PA
#6 = Flo pgs 21-26 and Alice, # 54-56

Yup, Smok - that's how I read the transcripts:

Second Officer was Bill Rataczak on page 1; third officer was HE Anderson on page 2. Page 3 was Tina's debrief in Reno, while page 5 is a second debrief in Trevose, Pennsylvania, which is her home town, north of Philly.

Captain Scott had zip to say on Page 4. Boy, that was revealing!!! Page 6 is a combo of Flo, first, and then Alice Hancock at the end. I spent all afternoon reading and taking notes.

Thanks, so much Shut and Reichenbach. I do believe these transcripts are the ones that Geoffrey Gray drew his information from for his book. Very solid stuff.

I made the same connection for Gray and what Im reading here based on Gray's conversation with me about the search etc at Reno ... but I could be wrong? The source of wavy (marcelled) hair, brown suit, etc etc...

[georger]

Jo stated something green hanging from his leg, or something to that effect. it's in the Carr files from WSHS.

Where did she get that! Seems like too much of a coincidence?

No mention of a "small brown paper bag". The brown bag has become green!    I love it!

[georger]

2) Yes, somebody requested maps. Did Mucklow give Cooper maps he requested? Maps were brought on with crew meals. Cooper requested meals for the crew. So who requested the maps and which maps? Because in the PI Transcript it refers to 'you should have the maps .. we sent up maps'. The crew was going to be given flight maps in any event. Maps needs clarification.

I believe the crew asked for maps, and plates. plates are an aviation term. they give them the information needed to land at any given airport. could there request somehow have gotten onto the list of Cooper's demands?

Somebody suggested and sent the crew meals and maps. Did Cooper ask for these things?

I may be missing it so probably shouldnt say this but, I do not recall reading anything about Mucklow bringing Cooper 'maps he requested' - I will go back and look. Maybe I missed this.



 

[Shutter]

He had cash on him. paid with a 20 for the ticket, and paid for his drink with a twenty having to wait for change 

He had at least two twenties while entering the plane, and 10,000 when he exited the plane 

[smokin99]

1) She doesn't specify 'paper' bands vs rubber bands - just "bank bands" which could be anything.  If you recall Larry found and talked to the guy who wrapped the bundles at the bank that day - he used rubber bands not paper bands. The team had to get this nailed down and Larry apparently did. Larry/we discussed this with Ingram and Ingram's mother who says "definitely rubber bands, not paper".

"Bank-type bands" is what she said in the document....I don't know...when I hear the word bank-type band, I think of the paper bands that go around packs of money.... I realize what Larry and Ingram said....though there is nothing that rules out a mixture -- maybe some of the money was held together by paper bank-type bands and some of it was held together with rubber bands....and she only saw the bank type bands .
It's just interesting that she made the distinction...rubber band is a rubber band.....you might have small ones or large ones, but I've not heard of a "bank-type" rubber band.
Then there's also the interesting aspect that someone said he requested small bills. Didn't Larry say that he did not specify type of bills.. 

[Robert99]

Are the files accessible? I haven't heard anything from anyone. uploading PDF files is new to me, so I'm having a little trouble getting them embedded onto the site, so I put direct links to them.

Hi all -- hope everyone is doing good.... guess we haven't solved the case yet, Huh?
I was able to read the files - 6 files, correct? Good stuff. My FAA and FBI foia went absolutely nowhere.... Good stuff! glad to see someone has connections

So...At first read, Some observations and items of interest:
#1 = 2nd Officer (Bill R.??),
#2 = 3rd officer (Anderson??),
#3 = Tina at time of hijacking,
#4 = Captain Scott,
#5 = Tina - Dec 1,2, in PA
#6 = Flo pgs 21-26 and Alice, # 54-56

1. One of the hostesses, I think on one of the Tina interviews said she saw bank bands around the money, not rubber bands.
2. He requested maps??
3. They didn't think to pinpoint exact location of "oscillation" - but they were around suburbs of Portland..I know we've heard this before but it just further makes one wonder about how they came up with the search area that they ended  up with..
4. What's up with the 2nd and 3rd officer designations....If who they are calling the 3rd officer is Anderson, I don't think I've ever read where he had that much to say about it -- that interview sounds more like Bill R. Am I mis-reading something?
I've got more, but these are good to start.....thoughts?

1) She doesn't specify 'paper' bands vs rubber bands - just "bank bands" which could be anything.  If you recall Larry found and talked to the guy who wrapped the bundles at the bank that day - he used rubber bands not paper bands. The team had to get this nailed down and Larry apparently did. Larry/we discussed this with Ingram and Ingram's mother who says "definitely rubber bands, not paper".

2) Yes, somebody requested maps. Did Mucklow give Cooper maps he requested? Maps were brought on with crew meals. Cooper requested meals for the crew. So who requested the maps and which maps? Because in the PI Transcript it refers to 'you should have the maps .. we sent up maps'. The crew was going to be given flight maps in any event. Maps needs clarification.

3) "in the suburbs of Portland" fits with what Larry said Rataczak told him.

4) 1st officer: Scott      2nd officer: Bill Rataczak      3rd officer & Flight Engineer: Harold 'Andy' Anderson.
I think there may be some confusion in these interviews as to who is saying what, being interviewed, and the references may be mixed ... interviews may even be mixed? Im not sure at this point but I know the confusion you are talking about. One witnesses is interviewed at her home in PA (Mucklow or Schaffner ?). Anderson has given very few interviews since the hijacking. It was Anderson who went on the test flight and confirmed 'oscillations vs bump'.
Again, Harold Anderson is the 3rd officer/Flight Engineer.

Keep in mind that Harold Anderson was also a rated co-pilot (same as Rataczak) on that flight.  In the early 1970s, major airlines starting positions in three man cockpits were for pilots who also had a flight engineer rating.  Typically, the new hire would start as a flight engineer and then move up to co-pilot as circumstances permitted.  During the off-season winter months, the new hires would probably face lay offs due to their low number on the very scared seniority list.  Consequently, he might elect to fly as a flight engineer and that would bump a new hire with an even lower seniority number.  And my guess is that is why Anderson had three stripes and was flying as a flight engineer on that specific flight.  Anderson and Rataczak both later became NWA Captains.

[smokin99]

2) Yes, somebody requested maps. Did Mucklow give Cooper maps he requested? Maps were brought on with crew meals. Cooper requested meals for the crew. So who requested the maps and which maps? Because in the PI Transcript it refers to 'you should have the maps .. we sent up maps'. The crew was going to be given flight maps in any event. Maps needs clarification.

I believe the crew asked for maps, and plates. plates are an aviation term. they give them the information needed to land at any given airport. could there request somehow have gotten onto the list of Cooper's demands?

Somebody suggested and sent the crew meals and maps. Did Cooper ask for these things?

I may be missing it so probably shouldnt say this but, I do not recall reading anything about Mucklow bringing Cooper 'maps he requested' - I will go back and look. Maybe I missed this.
 

Alice interview(#6, pgs 54-56) -- "He wanted maps" she did not know specifics...I think she also said he requested crew meals.
Tina interview - "After getting the  money and chutes, she told him had crew meals and maps, requested permission to go get them, He said yes, and she did, returning the items and taking the seat next to him"..... yes..kind of confusing.... did they mean returning "with" the items? She wasn't returning them, she was getting them so returning "with" makes more sense 44 years later..

[smokin99]

One point I do want to make about these "transcriptions": they are very redundant and full of legalese and FBI speak at times. How many times *at this time* do you need to identify who it is that's being identified, who you have already identified 40 times, in a kind of double-speak redundancy. That superfluous FBI speak and it frankly works to confuse the reader at time, for my taste! Oh well. *At this time I will post this *at this time, at this time! That's an example of what I am talking about ...
     

At this time, Georger, I have to say that I agree with this assessment, at this time.
I also wish they consistently reported in the first person as in.... Miss redacted stated "I did this and I said that", as opposed to all of the she pronouns......tends to make you lose track of who "she" is...