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[Parrotheadvol]

I think it is possible for the Gunther book to be real.  The FBI never got their man.  If any of these suspects were the guy, then the FBI would have gotten a confession, unless it was McCoy, which I don't believe it was.  So maybe it was someone who was never on their radar, a guy like LeClair from Gunther's book.  So go ahead and add me to the list of Martin Andrade supporters here about the book.  And I'll go a step further to say I could see a connection to the railroads, as I had mentioned before.  Until the next suspect (flavor of the month) comes up, I'm with LeClair and the railroads.

By the way, is Rob Heady still alive?  He jumped from higher up and going faster.  That's a story that would make a great movie.

Cooper's use of railroads is entirely speculative, as is his use of radios. It's actually quite difficult and dangerous to board a moving freight car unless it is going really slow. Would be interesting to know average train speeds in the areas where you think Cooper might have boarded. Being a train fan and a radio nut, I'd be in heaven if he carried two-way radio gear and hopped a freight. But can't let my prejudices manufacture facts.

Rob Heady is still alive AFIK. I spoke with him, skydiver to skydiver, jet jumper to jet jumper. It was a very interesting conversation. His jet jump, of course, was much riskier and more difficult than mine.

377

And less legal than yours I’m assuming??

[377]

Yeah, just a bit. I had cold beer and a lovely woman waiting for me on the ground. Rob had cold steel and cuffs.

I have always been amazed how close Rob landed to his car and how close McCoy landed to his home. Even at jump speeds, those airliners are covering a lot of ground fast.

I may be forgetting something but who besides that guy in the Philippines with his non-airworthy homemade parachute died in a skyjack jump? Had he jumped a C 9 he'd have survived I'd bet. He exited and opened OK but the opening stresses disintegrated his parachute canopy.

So the odds of dying in a skyjack jump are low, extrapolating from our small sample.

377

[fcastle866]

Jumping a train is not as hard as it might seem, especially if it's leaving a station or coming into a station, and if you've been around trains and know what to look for, then you'll know what to do.  Or maybe you know someone who can control the speed of the train.  I envy you all who have jumped from a 727.  Maybe someday there will be chances to jump a jet again.

[377]

I jumped on and off freight trains in my youth. There was a local switchyard that provided ample opportunities. It was easy on slow-moving cars but got a lot harder with increasing speed. If we couldn't closely match the car speed by running alongside we usually didn't try to grab the ladder rail and swing onto a low rung.

You mentioned coming in or out of a station. Were there stations and passenger trains in the area where we think Cooper landed? A freight train on the main line is usually (but not always) going pretty fast. Hoboes who camped near the switchyard gave us tips about how to get off a train without getting killed: run as fast as you can towards the rear of the car, and then jump off. That tactic reduces your ground speed.

Also, you are stuck on the outside unless you can board a boxcar with an open door or gondola. It's tricky and dangerous. You can get swung under the train if you screw up. Look at all the Youtube videos of deaths when people try to board moving trains in India. It's gruesome.

If there was a grade or turn that caused a freight train to slow down, then Cooper might have been able to easily board, but at what I consider normal track speeds it would be tough.

377

[georger]

Jumping a train is not as hard as it might seem, especially if it's leaving a station or coming into a station, and if you've been around trains and know what to look for, then you'll know what to do.  Or maybe you know someone who can control the speed of the train.  I envy you all who have jumped from a 727.  Maybe someday there will be chances to jump a jet again.

Lots of conjektion. How fast do the trains Coopere could have jumped on - go? Where would he jumped them? Where do they slow? Where do they go fast? 

back to the regularly scheduled conjektion; no facts allowed.

[fcastle866]

I jumped on and off freight trains in my youth. There was a local switchyard that provided ample opportunities. It was easy on slow-moving cars but got a lot harder with increasing speed. If we couldn't closely match the car speed by running alongside we usually didn't try to grab the ladder rail and swing onto a low rung.

You mentioned coming in or out of a station. Were there stations and passenger trains in the area where we think Cooper landed? A freight train on the main line is usually (but not always) going pretty fast. Hoboes who camped near the switchyard gave us tips about how to get off a train without getting killed: run as fast as you can towards the rear of the car, and then jump off. That tactic reduces your ground speed.

Also, you are stuck on the outside unless you can board a boxcar with an open door or gondola. It's tricky and dangerous. You can get swung under the train if you screw up. Look at all the Youtube videos of deaths when people try to board moving trains in India. It's gruesome.

If there was a grade or turn that caused a freight train to slow down, then Cooper might have been able to easily board, but at what I consider normal track speeds it would be tough.

377

Brush Prairie to Battle Ground then East to Yacolt and get the Hell out of Dodge.  Former Northern Pacific line.  Some of the $ goes into Salmon Creek and you know the rest.

[Robert99]

I jumped on and off freight trains in my youth. There was a local switchyard that provided ample opportunities. It was easy on slow-moving cars but got a lot harder with increasing speed. If we couldn't closely match the car speed by running alongside we usually didn't try to grab the ladder rail and swing onto a low rung.

You mentioned coming in or out of a station. Were there stations and passenger trains in the area where we think Cooper landed? A freight train on the main line is usually (but not always) going pretty fast. Hoboes who camped near the switchyard gave us tips about how to get off a train without getting killed: run as fast as you can towards the rear of the car, and then jump off. That tactic reduces your ground speed.

Also, you are stuck on the outside unless you can board a boxcar with an open door or gondola. It's tricky and dangerous. You can get swung under the train if you screw up. Look at all the Youtube videos of deaths when people try to board moving trains in India. It's gruesome.

If there was a grade or turn that caused a freight train to slow down, then Cooper might have been able to easily board, but at what I consider normal track speeds it would be tough.

377

Brush Prairie to Battle Ground then East to Yacolt and get the Hell out of Dodge.  Former Northern Pacific line.  Some of the $ goes into Salmon Creek and you know the rest.

The area in the immediate vicinity of Tina Bar is quite flat and would not have any particular effect on the railroads passing nearby.  Probably the highest elevation north of the (Flushing Channel) (keeping in mind that the Columbia River runs north at Tina Bar) and between the Columbia River and the Lake River (which drains the Vancouver Lake into the Columbia about 15 or 20 miles north of the Flushing Channel) is only about 25 feet above sea level.  Normally, the surface of the Columbia River is less than five feet above sea level.  During the spring run off, it may be something on the order of 20 feet above sea level at Tina Bar but there is still dry land there (or so Meyer Louie and I have been told by local fishermen).

[georger]

I jumped on and off freight trains in my youth. There was a local switchyard that provided ample opportunities. It was easy on slow-moving cars but got a lot harder with increasing speed. If we couldn't closely match the car speed by running alongside we usually didn't try to grab the ladder rail and swing onto a low rung.

You mentioned coming in or out of a station. Were there stations and passenger trains in the area where we think Cooper landed? A freight train on the main line is usually (but not always) going pretty fast. Hoboes who camped near the switchyard gave us tips about how to get off a train without getting killed: run as fast as you can towards the rear of the car, and then jump off. That tactic reduces your ground speed.

Also, you are stuck on the outside unless you can board a boxcar with an open door or gondola. It's tricky and dangerous. You can get swung under the train if you screw up. Look at all the Youtube videos of deaths when people try to board moving trains in India. It's gruesome.

If there was a grade or turn that caused a freight train to slow down, then Cooper might have been able to easily board, but at what I consider normal track speeds it would be tough.

377

Brush Prairie to Battle Ground then East to Yacolt and get the Hell out of Dodge.  Former Northern Pacific line.  Some of the $ goes into Salmon Creek and you know the rest.

And the first appearance of money at Tina Bar happens when? What year/month.

How is it distributed between strata? surface to -3ft. In the exact location found.

details details! 

[RaoulDuke24]

Exactly what DBC was probably concerned with:

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[Bruce A. Smith]

I think it is possible for the Gunther book to be real.  The FBI never got their man.  If any of these suspects were the guy, then the FBI would have gotten a confession, unless it was McCoy, which I don't believe it was.  So maybe it was someone who was never on their radar, a guy like LeClair from Gunther's book.  So go ahead and add me to the list of Martin Andrade supporters here about the book.  And I'll go a step further to say I could see a connection to the railroads, as I had mentioned before.  Until the next suspect (flavor of the month) comes up, I'm with LeClair and the railroads.

By the way, is Rob Heady still alive?  He jumped from higher up and going faster.  That's a story that would make a great movie.

Robb is hale and hardy in AZ. He probably wouldn't want a movie made, though.

[Seatac]

Feb 2018 (coincidentally, almost 47 years later) Some people start talking about DB Cooper and trains. Takes a few weeks to make it to the Cooper Royalty, as someone referred to them as, disrespectfully I must say. And now we are arguing over inches on the flight path and how deep the money was buried at Tena Bar.  Meanwhile, we have people who have dedicated so much time to the case, and who are true believers, being ridiculed for their input. This group has a common bond-A man jumped from a 727, and we are still mesmerized by it 50 years later. Maybe we are too tied up in the details. Hmmm. Why February 2018?

[Kermit]

I jumped on and off freight trains in my youth. There was a local switchyard that provided ample opportunities. It was easy on slow-moving cars but got a lot harder with increasing speed. If we couldn't closely match the car speed by running alongside we usually didn't try to grab the ladder rail and swing onto a low rung.

You mentioned coming in or out of a station. Were there stations and passenger trains in the area where we think Cooper landed? A freight train on the main line is usually (but not always) going pretty fast. Hoboes who camped near the switchyard gave us tips about how to get off a train without getting killed: run as fast as you can towards the rear of the car, and then jump off. That tactic reduces your ground speed.

Also, you are stuck on the outside unless you can board a boxcar with an open door or gondola. It's tricky and dangerous. You can get swung under the train if you screw up. Look at all the Youtube videos of deaths when people try to board moving trains in India. It's gruesome.

If there was a grade or turn that caused a freight train to slow down, then Cooper might have been able to easily board, but at what I consider normal track speeds it would be tough.

377

Brush Prairie to Battle Ground then East to Yacolt and get the Hell out of Dodge.  Former Northern Pacific line.  Some of the $ goes into Salmon Creek and you know the rest.

I’ve talked to a railroad guy who actually gives talks regarding the local history of the railroads. The line you just mentioned was a local sparsely used line. There is no possibility that Cooper could have jumped a train to or from Battleground or Yacolt on the night of Nov 21, 1971. However Cooper could have used the railroad tracks to help make his escape. I’ve mentioned this to Georger that the really difficult part of escaping the possible landing area in Cooper country are the Blackberry vines that make traveling very very difficult. They are 8 feet tall and almost everywhere ! A railroads track makes for far easier walking. I’ve spent many a pheasant and deer hunting trips walking the tracks. The main BNSF railway runs from Seattle south to LA. it’s a very busy line then and now. There was no Amtrak passenger line running there in 1971. I don’t think Cooper,would have been hitching any rides on any of the freights as trust me ..... they move really fast. Only real slow down area is around Vancouver where they approach the railroad bridge that crosses the Columbia river. I recently rode the Amtrak over the route from Longview, Wa into downtown Portland. Interesting !

[fcastle866]

Information from people who know the area is vital. Thanks for the background info Kermit. Google Earth can only show so much.

[Bruce A. Smith]

Reca

Anybody get the Reca book, yet? I've asked Principia Media twice for a copy and have yet to receive my copy.

[RaoulDuke24]

Reca

Anybody get the Reca book, yet? I've asked Principia Media twice for a copy and have yet to receive my copy.

I was planning on ordering a copy (especially for only 18 bucks) but once I determined that there's no way Reca is our man I lost interest in it and did not order one.

Same happened with Colbert/Rackstraw. As soon as I lost interest in him as a suspect I lost interest in the book.