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[Bruce A. Smith]

It’s doubtful that Dan Cooper was a paratrooper.... (Salerno, etc.)

Says who?

Or rather, please explain why the MAC-V-SOG guys are convinced Coop is one of them. Plus, for this statement to be more weighty you should also consider the statements of smokejumpers, particularly Sheridan Peterson and others at Parachutist Magazine, who say the jump was quite doable.

BTW: I thought the Salerno invasion was amphibious. Airborne went in, too? If so, what was the issue? I thought resistance was light-to-non-existent on Day 1. The next day, though, SOL.

[Shutter]

The tie? Maybe he leaves it as a calling card to let people know he accomplished his mission.  The tie would have absorbed particles during transit or transport of materials, he didn’t have to work in the aircraft industry or industrial chemicals.  Or maybe it really did come from a pawn shop.

Finding the exact reason the particles are on the tie is the question...I think you mean a second hand store vs a pawn shop..a pawn shop doesn't sell clothing or imitation jewelry.

[fcastle866]

I think looking at military paratroopers is a logical place to start.   They would have been able to do this jump, even in poor weather.  Special Ops could have done it too, but wouldn't it have been planned better and come off a little less amateur? Would someone from the Vietnam era that was SOG/SF/SEAL etc. have fit the age profile?  Possibly Korean War time frame?  Aren't there lists available of who went through airborne training?

[377]

Most paratroopers have never done HALO or any kind of freefall jumps. Their training is for low altitude static line jumps. They have likely never pulled a ripcord or know much about freefall rigs. Same goes for most smoke jumpers. Special Ops folks (who undergo extensive freefall training after the basic Airborne static line jumps)  are familiar with this type of gear. So are skydivers. Pilots who wear bailout rigs would know the basics of how to deploy their chute, but most have never made a freefall jump.

The MAC SOG jumpers from Vietnam were highly qualified to do the NORJACK jump, but of course, that proves only ability not culpability. Billy Waugh, a MAC SOG legend, thinks Cooper was one of them, most likely Ted Braden.

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[georger]

Most paratroopers have never done HALO or any kind of freefall jumps. Their training is for low altitude static line jumps. They have likely never pulled a ripcord or know much about freefall rigs. Same goes for most smoke jumpers. Special Ops folks (who undergo extensive freefall training after the basic Airborne static line jumps)  are familiar with this type of gear. So are skydivers. Pilots who wear bailout rigs would know the basics of how to deploy their chute, but most have never made a freefall jump.

The MAC SOG jumpers from Vietnam were highly qualified to do the NORJACK jump, but of course, that proves only ability not culpability. Billy Waugh, a MAC SOG legend, thinks Cooper was one of them, most likely Ted Braden.

377

Bank robbers that use guns must all be Seal Team 6 members!

Petty thieves that steal purses, like Duane, must all be famous clothing designers.

People who ride in planes must all be Angels in drag.

When the Almighty sends you a message be sure to let us know.

When it comes to pure speculation only Experts and the Almighty have the correct solution ... and they can talk for years about it!

   

[377]

In the late 1960s, when I started skydiving, fellow jumpers fantasized at length about how freefall parachuting could be used for audacious crimes. Most schemes involved covert ENTRY vertically into highly secured areas. Some wondered if jumping into the Livermore National Laboratory (a nuke weapons research facility located near our DZ) might enable the theft of classified material or documents. The perp would jump in at night, do the crime, then jimmy the trunk lock on an employee car and ride out undetected.

Not once did I hear anyone propose skydiving as an effective EXIT from a crime scene. Cooper's crime was clever, unique, took some imagination.

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[Bruce A. Smith]

The Number One Statement made on November 25, 1971 at Thun Field, according to Jump Master Bruce Thun, was:

"Why didn't I think of that!"

[Bruce A. Smith]

...When the Almighty sends you a message be sure to let us know...
 

I thought I had, Georger. Maybe I have an incorrect phone number for you?

[Seatac]

Robert99, He would have practiced his skydiving. Unless he had advanced training, it is unlikely that he was able to practice at night, and very doubtful that he would have jumped in high winds and rain. What skydive centers were open in 1971?

[georger]

The Number One Statement made on November 25, 1971 at Thun Field, according to Jump Master Bruce Thun, was:

"Why didn't I think of that!"

So Mr. Thun wanted to hijack a 727 but couldnt think up a method?

Strange.

Very strange.

Bizarre. "Why didn't I think of that!" 

[Robert99]

Robert99, He would have practiced his skydiving. Unless he had advanced training, it is unlikely that he was able to practice at night, and very doubtful that he would have jumped in high winds and rain. What skydive centers were open in 1971?

My skydiving career was short and covered only a very few years in the early 1960s.

Frankly, there is very little training that Cooper could have had that would have helped him during the hijacking.  The jump was made at night, with a complete overcast and several cloud layers below him.  There was light rain below the overcast but nothing is said in the records about what the cloud situation was above the airliner when he jumped from 10,000 feet.

It is highly probable that Cooper tumbled immediately after leaving the aft stairs and it would be nearly impossible for him to stabilize in any manner.  Consequently, he would become disoriented in the space of a few seconds and that would increase the probability of him being a no-pull.

As 377 has pointed out, the best course of action would have been for Cooper to pull right off the stairs.  But there is nothing to even remotely suggest that Cooper did so.

In the thread about the flight path, I have pointed out the only possible means - repeat, only possible means - to explain what happened to Cooper and how the money got to Tina Bar without having to require several miracles. 

[georger]

Robert99, He would have practiced his skydiving. Unless he had advanced training, it is unlikely that he was able to practice at night, and very doubtful that he would have jumped in high winds and rain. What skydive centers were open in 1971?

My skydiving career was short and covered only a very few years in the early 1960s.

Frankly, there is very little training that Cooper could have had that would have helped him during the hijacking.  The jump was made at night, with a complete overcast and several cloud layers below him.  There was light rain below the overcast but nothing is said in the records about what the cloud situation was above the airliner when he jumped from 10,000 feet.

It is highly probable that Cooper tumbled immediately after leaving the aft stairs and it would be nearly impossible for him to stabilize in any manner.  Consequently, he would become disoriented in the space of a few seconds and that would increase the probability of him being a no-pull.

As 377 has pointed out, the best course of action would have been for Cooper to pull right off the stairs.  But there is nothing to even remotely suggest that Cooper did so.

In the thread about the flight path, I have pointed out the only possible means - repeat, only possible means - to explain what happened to Cooper and how the money got to Tina Bar without having to require several miracles.

The shortest line between Cooper and money at Tina Bar is 'he was in the area' - either jumped close by or jumped north and transported the money south. The money has to be in the flow zone of Tina Bar and that very likely means Cooper was there also with the money at some point.

All other options invoke such a low probability you can almost cancel them out as impossible, as R99 says. We have a living example of this in the case when Himmelsbach initially bought into the idea the money had come down the Washouigal! Himmelsbach based that on a hydrologist's report where the hydrologist was merely speculating based on flood and tributary data he was aware of (for 1977-79). Finally, Himmelsbach even realised the Washougal Washdown theory was far fetched so he changed the conditions saying (in a news conference) - 'Cooper must have thrown the money off the Washoulgal Bridge which is closer to the Columbia'. (People laughed)

The money and Cooper probably were somewhere in the Columbia drainage basin together, for any money to ever wind up at Tina Bar.

Odds are the explanation is quite ordinary and doesnt require rocket science to explain.



   

[fcastle866]

In reply to a previous post around 2017 about a suspect visiting a skydive center in California.

There are documents that show that in 1971 someone matching the hijacker's description visited the Elsinore Paracenter in California.  He asked very specific questions about how to jump out of  a jet.  He was wearing Corcoran boots, and he smoked Raleigh cigarettes.  He also inquired about where jump centers were located in the northwest.

This sounds like a smoking gun.  I'm assuming it was investigated and discarded?  Does anyone know the reason or if those records are still available?

[georger]

In reply to a previous post around 2017 about a suspect visiting a skydive center in California.

There are documents that show that in 1971 someone matching the hijacker's description visited the Elsinore Paracenter in California.  He asked very specific questions about how to jump out of  a jet.  He was wearing Corcoran boots, and he smoked Raleigh cigarettes.  He also inquired about where jump centers were located in the northwest.

This sounds like a smoking gun.  I'm assuming it was investigated and discarded?  Does anyone know the reason or if those records are still available?

There is a 302 on this ...

[377]

Elsinore was a wild DZ back then. They had this large encampment of rusty RVs and broken down trailers called The Ghetto. One of the residents was an MD who got hooked on skydiving and quit practicing medicine. Lots of drugs, sex, and some skydiving too. I earned my SCR patch at Elsinore, awarded for being in a formation of 8 or more jumpers which was still considered an accomplishment in the early 70s.  I got mine for being in a 13 person formation launched out of a decrepit oil slinging DC 3. West coast dropzones in the 60 and 70s were crazy places. Like Burning Man, Woodstock and Altamont all rolled into one.

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