New Forum & News Updates

[MEYDC]

Does any one know if there was hair found in Cooper's seat on the airplane?

Yes, there was. Hair samples were collected off the linen headrest. GG talks about it, I believe. Ayn and Larry also confirmed, circa 2009, if I recall. Oddly, no principals have talked about collecting DNA profiles from the hair that I know of, but Georger and I have discussed it at the DZ and my understanding is that hair is not a hotsy-totsy source for DNA. But I find that strange.

They might be able to solve this case if they collected DNA profiles from the hair.

[Shutter]

Does any one know if there was hair found in Cooper's seat on the airplane?

Yes, there was. Hair samples were collected off the linen headrest. GG talks about it, I believe. Ayn and Larry also confirmed, circa 2009, if I recall. Oddly, no principals have talked about collecting DNA profiles from the hair that I know of, but Georger and I have discussed it at the DZ and my understanding is that hair is not a hotsy-totsy source for DNA. But I find that strange.

They might be able to solve this case if they collected DNA profiles from the hair.

Much like the controversy with the tie, how do they know it's Cooper's hair..I don't think anyone has said how often the towels were changed on the planes..anyone know?

[MEYDC]

Does any one know if there was hair found in Cooper's seat on the airplane?

Yes, there was. Hair samples were collected off the linen headrest. GG talks about it, I believe. Ayn and Larry also confirmed, circa 2009, if I recall. Oddly, no principals have talked about collecting DNA profiles from the hair that I know of, but Georger and I have discussed it at the DZ and my understanding is that hair is not a hotsy-totsy source for DNA. But I find that strange.

They might be able to solve this case if they collected DNA profiles from the hair.

Much like the controversy with the tie, how do they know it's Cooper's hair..I don't think anyone has said how often the towels were changed on the planes..anyone know?

That is a good point. I also would point out that he was hijacking a plane and stress can cause you to lose a little hair. I would like to know about how much hair was found on the towel. I think that any thing that could be used to help solve the case should be used.

[Robert99]

Does any one know if there was hair found in Cooper's seat on the airplane?

Yes, there was. Hair samples were collected off the linen headrest. GG talks about it, I believe. Ayn and Larry also confirmed, circa 2009, if I recall. Oddly, no principals have talked about collecting DNA profiles from the hair that I know of, but Georger and I have discussed it at the DZ and my understanding is that hair is not a hotsy-totsy source for DNA. But I find that strange.

They might be able to solve this case if they collected DNA profiles from the hair.

Much like the controversy with the tie, how do they know it's Cooper's hair..I don't think anyone has said how often the towels were changed on the planes..anyone know?

If you are referring to the head rest "towel", it was probably last changed before the airliner left Washington, DC early that morning.  It is also probably likely that the airliner would leave Seattle about 45 minutes or an hour after its scheduled arrival from Portland and (using a new flight number) head east possibly making it all the way back to DC with maybe one stop somewhere.  The head rest "towel" would probably be changed at DC (or where ever it spent the night) and the cabin cleaned as well.  Cleaning the cabin is basically a middle of the night operation.  And there were probably more "red-eye" flights in the early 1970s from the west coast to the east coast than in the other direction, although I have been on my share of each.

Does anyone have an arrival/departure schedule for NWA at Seattle for November 1971?

[georger]

Does any one know if there was hair found in Cooper's seat on the airplane?

Yes, there was. Hair samples were collected off the linen headrest. GG talks about it, I believe. Ayn and Larry also confirmed, circa 2009, if I recall. Oddly, no principals have talked about collecting DNA profiles from the hair that I know of, but Georger and I have discussed it at the DZ and my understanding is that hair is not a hotsy-totsy source for DNA. But I find that strange.

They might be able to solve this case if they collected DNA profiles from the hair.

Much like the controversy with the tie, how do they know it's Cooper's hair..I don't think anyone has said how often the towels were changed on the planes..anyone know?

That is a good point. I also would point out that he was hijacking a plane and stress can cause you to lose a little hair. I would like to know about how much hair was found on the towel. I think that any thing that could be used to help solve the case should be used.

mtdna and nuclear dna are available only in the part of hair that has been in contact with the blood supply, the root follicle - hair shafts are lifeless keratinized cells and contain no dna.

[georger]

Given the recent news of Porteous' passing and his disease syndrome, P.P.A., one has to wonder what Porteous' mental state was during the writing of this book and on the publication date of "Into The Blast": Publication Date: January 6, 2011. PPA has a long timeline between onset and conclusion lasting years.

I will predict in advance Mr. Blevins giving a glowing account claiming no impairment or defect, on Porteous' part. Likewise, I am sure Blevins has no medical records one way or another in this matter.

The whole history of this book has been problematic since its inception right down to the present day, still being shrouded in mystery.   

If nothing else, we can surmise the facts support the idea that Mr. Porteous was severely impaired during the recent period when Blevins was negotiating for a movie based on his book. What special problems did that create? 

Moreover, where is Geoffrey Gray in this whole matter!? Since Gray and Porteous worked closely together for years. Blevins keeps citing Mr. Gray as a close associate of Mr. Porteous. Has Gray said anything? Does Gray have a stake in this forthcoming movie Blevins is advertising?
 

[Bruce A. Smith]

Me and Skippy

Those of us who spent time on the DZ know that I endeavored to communicate with Skipp Porteous since his book came out. At first, we had a couple of Facebook exchanges that were indirect, and clearly indicated a medical condition was present. He never answered my questions about RMB, who contacted whom first, or what RMB's input was on the book. Rather, SP talked about enjoyed vodka and orange juice. Of course, I talked about Tequila, but my hope that we could go beyond bar room buddies never materialized.

My correspondence with him, such as it was, occurred while he was in Morro Bay. When he moved to Florida a couple of years ago he never corresponded with me at all.

However, Galen told me a lot about Skipp. Apparently they had a robust relationship in the post-GG era, 2007-2010. Galen told me that Skipp sought out RMB as a cheap and easy writer/publisher who could bang out the Kenny book on the quick. Galen repeatedly portrayed Skipp as an opportunist, looking for a quick buck, fame, glory, and a Hollywood rep. From that perspective it seems that Porteous' needs matched those of RMB perfectly. A couple of wannabes finding each other and dancing as brightly as they could until they burnt out.

I don't think that Geoffrey Gray and Skipp Porteous had much of a relationship. I spoke with Skippy once in New York when he still ran Sherlock PI, and asked him about seeing GG. He told me that he had no relationship with GG at all, other than the initial contact about Lyle. I told him I thought that was bullshit, and he laughed, acknowledging through his chuckles that he had a couple of beers with GG from time-to-time.

I'm not sure, at all, how much original sleuthing Skipp did. I don't know where the first batch of Kenny material came from - Porteous or Gray. My sense that they both began tip-toeing into the story, trading tidbits, and then GG went his own way. Remember, GG was CONVINCED that he was gonna get a Pulitzer for this.

[Shutter]

I have nothing bad to say about Skipp, but it is questionable as to the extent of research he really did with Kenny and his knowledge of the case itself. lots of things were overlooked or went unchecked, I don't know. Robert finally admits it was he who contacted Skipp..you read through the DZ and he always claims he was contacted by Skipp..it makes him look more important..same for using "we"

It's a broken record stuck on repeat.......

[georger]

Me and Skippy

Those of us who spent time on the DZ know that I endeavored to communicate with Skipp Porteous since his book came out. At first, we had a couple of Facebook exchanges that were indirect, and clearly indicated a medical condition was present. He never answered my questions about RMB, who contacted whom first, or what RMB's input was on the book. Rather, SP talked about enjoyed vodka and orange juice. Of course, I talked about Tequila, but my hope that we could go beyond bar room buddies never materialized.

My correspondence with him, such as it was, occurred while he was in Morro Bay. When he moved to Florida a couple of years ago he never corresponded with me at all.

However, Galen told me a lot about Skipp. Apparently they had a robust relationship in the post-GG era, 2007-2010. Galen told me that Skipp sought out RMB as a cheap and easy writer/publisher who could bang out the Kenny book on the quick. Galen repeatedly portrayed Skipp as an opportunist, looking for a quick buck, fame, glory, and a Hollywood rep. From that perspective it seems that Porteous' needs matched those of RMB perfectly. A couple of wannabes finding each other and dancing as brightly as they could until they burnt out.

I don't think that Geoffrey Gray and Skipp Porteous had much of a relationship. I spoke with Skippy once in New York when he still ran Sherlock PI, and asked him about seeing GG. He told me that he had no relationship with GG at all, other than the initial contact about Lyle. I told him I thought that was bullshit, and he laughed, acknowledging through his chuckles that he had a couple of beers with GG from time-to-time.

I'm not sure, at all, how much original sleuthing Skipp did. I don't know where the first batch of Kenny material came from - Porteous or Gray. My sense that they both began tip-toeing into the story, trading tidbits, and then GG went his own way. Remember, GG was CONVINCED that he was gonna get a Pulitzer for this.

Nobody cares!

These matters are so full of lies and deceits with nobody even caring, that it's not worth the energy posting about it, regardless of who knows what etc.

It's DB Cooper in Bollywood! Coming soon to a theatre near you in Somalia!

[RaoulDuke24]

I've been away from this site for a while but the news of the Golden State Killer brought me back. I was interested in seeing what was being discussed here in regards to the way the GSK was captured and how that could relate to the Cooper case.

I saw a little discussion of it, but I guess my biggest questions still remaining are....

1.) Now that the FBI has given up the case and released their files, what happens to the DNA records? Are those released as public information as well? Where do these DNA records exist and who has access to them?

2.) What is the likelihood of being able to use the same methodology in the Cooper case that was used to capture the GSK? Yes, there are multiple DNA samples on the tie (and I believe all of which are only partial samples and not full samples?) That of course makes things a little trickier. But the public DNA database that was used by the FBI in the GSK case could at least offer a possibility for matching some of those tie samples. The FBI used the database to locate the great-great-great grandfather of the GSK and then went from there. If that database could be used to find some DNA lines that match what was found on the tie, it could at least steer things in one direction. If they are only partial samples, you may not be able to narrow things down too much. And multiple different samples means having multiple places from which to start. But anything is better than nothing. Especially after 47 years.

The DNA database used by the FBI was public, meaning any of us could access those records. So now the question is who has access to the DNA  taken from the tie?

[georger]

I've been away from this site for a while but the news of the Golden State Killer brought me back. I was interested in seeing what was being discussed here in regards to the way the GSK was captured and how that could relate to the Cooper case.

I saw a little discussion of it, but I guess my biggest questions still remaining are....

1.) Now that the FBI has given up the case and released their files, what happens to the DNA records? Are those released as public information as well? Where do these DNA records exist and who has access to them?

2.) What is the likelihood of being able to use the same methodology in the Cooper case that was used to capture the GSK? Yes, there are multiple DNA samples on the tie (and I believe all of which are only partial samples and not full samples?) That of course makes things a little trickier. But the public DNA database that was used by the FBI in the GSK case could at least offer a possibility for matching some of those tie samples. The FBI used the database to locate the great-great-great grandfather of the GSK and then went from there. If that database could be used to find some DNA lines that match what was found on the tie, it could at least steer things in one direction. If they are only partial samples, you may not be able to narrow things down too much. And multiple different samples means having multiple places from which to start. But anything is better than nothing. Especially after 47 years.

The DNA database used by the FBI was public, meaning any of us could access those records. So now the question is who has access to the DNA  taken from the tie?

? The DNA database used by the FBI was public, meaning any of us could access those records. So now the question is who has access to the DNA  taken from the tie?

Give us the url!

What dna taken from the tie - you mean the tie clasp?

[RaoulDuke24]

I've been away from this site for a while but the news of the Golden State Killer brought me back. I was interested in seeing what was being discussed here in regards to the way the GSK was captured and how that could relate to the Cooper case.

I saw a little discussion of it, but I guess my biggest questions still remaining are....

1.) Now that the FBI has given up the case and released their files, what happens to the DNA records? Are those released as public information as well? Where do these DNA records exist and who has access to them?

2.) What is the likelihood of being able to use the same methodology in the Cooper case that was used to capture the GSK? Yes, there are multiple DNA samples on the tie (and I believe all of which are only partial samples and not full samples?) That of course makes things a little trickier. But the public DNA database that was used by the FBI in the GSK case could at least offer a possibility for matching some of those tie samples. The FBI used the database to locate the great-great-great grandfather of the GSK and then went from there. If that database could be used to find some DNA lines that match what was found on the tie, it could at least steer things in one direction. If they are only partial samples, you may not be able to narrow things down too much. And multiple different samples means having multiple places from which to start. But anything is better than nothing. Especially after 47 years.

The DNA database used by the FBI was public, meaning any of us could access those records. So now the question is who has access to the DNA  taken from the tie?

? The DNA database used by the FBI was public, meaning any of us could access those records. So now the question is who has access to the DNA  taken from the tie?

Give us the url!

What dna taken from the tie - you mean the tie clasp?

The FBI used GEDmatch.com to trace the killer's DNA. Most DNA sites (like Ancestry.com) do not make the information of their users public. But GEDMatch is a site where you can then take the results of your DNA test that was done through other companies (like Ancestry.com) and upload it to a public database. So it's basically a collection of test results that were gathered by other DNA websites. (I believe you have to submit your own DNA sample in order to gain access to the database). The idea is that people can then use DNA records to do their own genealogy in addition to what they already learned from their own testing. The FBI did not need to obtain a warrant or permission from GEDMatch. They simply accessed it as a user.

This explains it a little more = You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The killer's DNA was not in the database, but that of a distant relative was. That helped the FBI narrow the suspect pool down from millions to a single family.

As far as the Cooper DNA --- the tie, the tie clasp, wherever the DNA samples(s) were retrieved from. A sample was used to test against a sample from Lynn Doyle a few years ago.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

So who has access to this sample now that the FBI has thrown their hands in the air about the case and released their files? Is the DNA sample a part of the files?

And again, I fully acknowledge that:

1.) We don't know if the tie DNA even belongs to Cooper
2.) I believe the tie DNA was only a partial sample and did not produce a complete record (maybe someone can correct me there)
3.) I also believe there were multiple DNA samples lifted from the tie (I want to say they identified 3 different male DNA samples; again, that's just off of memory so maybe someone can correct me).

All 3 of those things could make it difficult to use the same methodology the FBI used for the GSK killer. But after half a century, even a shot in the dark is a shot worth taking.

[FLYJACK]

I've been away from this site for a while but the news of the Golden State Killer brought me back. I was interested in seeing what was being discussed here in regards to the way the GSK was captured and how that could relate to the Cooper case.

I saw a little discussion of it, but I guess my biggest questions still remaining are....

1.) Now that the FBI has given up the case and released their files, what happens to the DNA records? Are those released as public information as well? Where do these DNA records exist and who has access to them?

2.) What is the likelihood of being able to use the same methodology in the Cooper case that was used to capture the GSK? Yes, there are multiple DNA samples on the tie (and I believe all of which are only partial samples and not full samples?) That of course makes things a little trickier. But the public DNA database that was used by the FBI in the GSK case could at least offer a possibility for matching some of those tie samples. The FBI used the database to locate the great-great-great grandfather of the GSK and then went from there. If that database could be used to find some DNA lines that match what was found on the tie, it could at least steer things in one direction. If they are only partial samples, you may not be able to narrow things down too much. And multiple different samples means having multiple places from which to start. But anything is better than nothing. Especially after 47 years.

The DNA database used by the FBI was public, meaning any of us could access those records. So now the question is who has access to the DNA  taken from the tie?

? The DNA database used by the FBI was public, meaning any of us could access those records. So now the question is who has access to the DNA  taken from the tie?

Give us the url!

What dna taken from the tie - you mean the tie clasp?

The FBI used GEDmatch.com to trace the killer's DNA. Most DNA sites (like Ancestry.com) do not make the information of their users public. But GEDMatch is a site where you can then take the results of your DNA test that was done through other companies (like Ancestry.com) and upload it to a public database. So it's basically a collection of test results that were gathered by other DNA websites. (I believe you have to submit your own DNA sample in order to gain access to the database). The idea is that people can then use DNA records to do their own genealogy in addition to what they already learned from their own testing. The FBI did not need to obtain a warrant or permission from GEDMatch. They simply accessed it as a user.

This explains it a little more = You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The killer's DNA was not in the database, but that of a distant relative was. That helped the FBI narrow the suspect pool down from millions to a single family.

As far as the Cooper DNA --- the tie, the tie clasp, wherever the DNA samples(s) were retrieved from. A sample was used to test against a sample from Lynn Doyle a few years ago.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

So who has access to this sample now that the FBI has thrown their hands in the air about the case and released their files? Is the DNA sample a part of the files?

And again, I fully acknowledge that:

1.) We don't know if the tie DNA even belongs to Cooper
2.) I believe the tie DNA was only a partial sample and did not produce a complete record (maybe someone can correct me there)
3.) I also believe there were multiple DNA samples lifted from the tie (I want to say they identified 3 different male DNA samples; again, that's just off of memory so maybe someone can correct me).

All 3 of those things could make it difficult to use the same methodology the FBI used for the GSK killer. But after half a century, even a shot in the dark is a shot worth taking.

It is a possibility,, and the advances in DNA tech have been enormous..  but the FBI has to play ball. IMO, they won't.

Another long shot, the Washington Museum now has one of the parachutes that was apparently on the plane. Did Cooper touch it?

[RaoulDuke24]

So the FBI still maintains possession of and control over the tie DNA? When the FBI closed the case and released the files, the DNA record was not released along with everything else? That's what I was curious about. Because if a citizen sleuth was able to get their hands on that DNA sample, that could really open up some doors thanks to the recent boom in popularity of DNA testing and websites like GEDMatch.

When Tom Kaye was in possession of the tie examining the particles, did he have it tested for DNA?

I believe the tie and parachute are now on display at the Smithsonian(??) Or at least they were(?) Not exactly sure of their whereabouts now. What are the chances a museum would allow for a DNA test of one of its artifacts? My guess is slim to none but who knows.

[FLYJACK]

So the FBI still maintains possession of and control over the tie DNA? When the FBI closed the case and released the files, the DNA record was not released along with everything else? That's what I was curious about. Because if a citizen sleuth was able to get their hands on that DNA sample, that could really open up some doors thanks to the recent boom in popularity of DNA testing and websites like GEDMatch.

When Tom Kaye was in possession of the tie examining the particles, did he have it tested for DNA?

I believe the tie and parachute are now on display at the Smithsonian(??) Or at least they were(?) Not exactly sure of their whereabouts now. What are the chances a museum would allow for a DNA test of one of its artifacts? My guess is slim to none but who knows.

I believe the FBI has the tie.. and the Washington State Museum has the "unused" back parachute believed to be on the plane. Did Cooper touch that parachute??

Tom Kaye told me that there were around 14 partial DNA profiles found..