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[georger]

Anyone remember DB Cooper? lately we have nothing but bickering and making fun of other posters here...this is a good reason I don't post here anymore...I posted something the other day but took it down due to lack of interest..

Well, I hope you come back. Fully concur on the bickering.

I wandered through some older threads the other day. Someone - maybe 377? - mentioned it was possible the FBI do have the cigarette butts still and that's how they've eliminated suspects- they do have a full DNA sample, depite CKret saying the butts were lost. Something was bothering me about that, and here's what it is - DNA shows dominant ethnicity. Likely eye colour if that eye colour is brown, as most races have dark eyes generally. Thinking about it, seems likely that the description of Cooper would have been updated if at least dominant ethnicity were certain. Much as I wish it were otherwise, I really do think those butts are gone.

Lynn, Ckret claimed they only have a partial after three or more tries. So the genetic info you speak of might not be revealed in the samples the FBI has. Remember (this may mean nothing to you) - Ckret said a partial profile, in the CODIS-13 system. That means not all genetic loci were revealed in the testing. There are gaps.

Ah, that's a shame. I had my own tested once, but of course it was a full profile. Pinning down at least ethnic background for Cooper would have been nice. "Olive-skinned" is one of those terms that depending on the viewer could be applied to someone with just darker/tanned skin; can never see these "green or yellow undertones" that supposedly accompany this skin tone. But several witnesses do mention that.

I'm sorry I'm late to the Gene Bland discussion. It's not a name I've heard before. Are people looking at him as a person of interest in the case or a possible consulted expert? Or just someone who's been commentating on websites? Georger,  by the way, whether tired of the drama or not, I agree people are well advised to check out Mr. Andrade's website. I pop back there often and will be purchasing his book soon - he has a clear mind and equally clear and concise writing style. I appreciate his insights.

 (Bruce, I think I need yours in hardcover unless the e-version has been updated - I realized reading on here that there is a more recent version. I only realized when I hit a section I saw had been updated more recently at TMN. I have to buy one or two a month as am only a poor prole. )

Georger, thank you for the info on DNA profiling. I've read what they gave me when they did mine for me, but of course they don't provide info on partials because commercial DNA profilers don't deal with partials.

We dont know what future technology will provide - every day new and better testing methods are designed by research organisations like 23&me and this: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login. These are some of the people who conducted the original human genomics survey which allowed the first series of test kits to be designed. The science has come a very long way since then. I think its safe to say 'the door is not closed to further Cooper case testing'.   

[Lynn]

Anyone remember DB Cooper? lately we have nothing but bickering and making fun of other posters here...this is a good reason I don't post here anymore...I posted something the other day but took it down due to lack of interest..

Well, I hope you come back. Fully concur on the bickering.

I wandered through some older threads the other day. Someone - maybe 377? - mentioned it was possible the FBI do have the cigarette butts still and that's how they've eliminated suspects- they do have a full DNA sample, depite CKret saying the butts were lost. Something was bothering me about that, and here's what it is - DNA shows dominant ethnicity. Likely eye colour if that eye colour is brown, as most races have dark eyes generally. Thinking about it, seems likely that the description of Cooper would have been updated if at least dominant ethnicity were certain. Much as I wish it were otherwise, I really do think those butts are gone.

Lynn, Ckret claimed they only have a partial after three or more tries. So the genetic info you speak of might not be revealed in the samples the FBI has. Remember (this may mean nothing to you) - Ckret said a partial profile, in the CODIS-13 system. That means not all genetic loci were revealed in the testing. There are gaps.

Ah, that's a shame. I had my own tested once, but of course it was a full profile. Pinning down at least ethnic background for Cooper would have been nice. "Olive-skinned" is one of those terms that depending on the viewer could be applied to someone with just darker/tanned skin; can never see these "green or yellow undertones" that supposedly accompany this skin tone. But several witnesses do mention that.

I'm sorry I'm late to the Gene Bland discussion. It's not a name I've heard before. Are people looking at him as a person of interest in the case or a possible consulted expert? Or just someone who's been commentating on websites? Georger,  by the way, whether tired of the drama or not, I agree people are well advised to check out Mr. Andrade's website. I pop back there often and will be purchasing his book soon - he has a clear mind and equally clear and concise writing style. I appreciate his insights.

 (Bruce, I think I need yours in hardcover unless the e-version has been updated - I realized reading on here that there is a more recent version. I only realized when I hit a section I saw had been updated more recently at TMN. I have to buy one or two a month as am only a poor prole. )

Georger, thank you for the info on DNA profiling. I've read what they gave me when they did mine for me, but of course they don't provide info on partials because commercial DNA profilers don't deal with partials.

We dont know what future technology will provide - every day new and better testing methods are designed by research organisations like 23&me and this: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login. These are some of the people who conducted the original human genomics survey which allowed the first series of test kits to be designed. The science has come a very long way since then. I think its safe to say 'the door is not closed to further Cooper case testing'.

Am still in awe of the discovery and development of research into DNA. Up here, there are men who spent years in prison and may well have never left if the DNA hadn't dealt them a get out of jail free card they once could never have imagined would come. People always think about the numbers end of science - they forget that it does also have a beauty beyond its own internal elegance. (I don't know if I've explained that very well; I hope you get what I mean.) What a remarkable age we live in.

Ahh, there's Gene Bland - am on Mr. Andrade's website now (it takes a while to load on my computer for some reason. Please disregard my previous questions. Martin,  enjoy your site so much -  think we are "tickled" by the same things! Loved the ref to the parachutists looking at their tennis shoes and laughing.)

BTW, does anyone own hard copies of Smokejumper magazine? I believe Bruce mentioned Petey himself wrote an article on Cooper once and would love to read his take on it, but the full version of that edition isn't online - just a different article from it. They do have some full mags up, but not that month. I posted a related link on one of these threads last night with a list of smokejumpers in Air America, but the list only includes those who allowed their names to be included.

[Lynn]

Re: Mr. Andrade's post on his own site quoting Bland. Am now looking into KS airfields that transferred ownership in the early 1970's. This one comes up first: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

The overall website deals with abandoned and little-known airfields, Kansas. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login  It occurs to me that the site owner might be someone to reach out to in this possible tributary to the Cooper hunt - his very specialized area of interest may give him access to records of people who bought property on KS airports at that time.

[georger]

OFF TOPIC - MUST SHARE!

was just sent this by a family member! Family karaoke anyone! ?? Going viral ...

[Lynn]

OFF TOPIC - MUST SHARE!

Just was sent this by a family member! Family karaoke anyone! ??

Haha, I lived in Japan for 3 years, so now Karaoke happens when I drink, machine or no. Shutter, for Thanksgiving this year, maybe a video with each forum member crooning "The Ballad of DB Cooper" ?

WOW, georger, your family can SING! Remarkable!

[georger]

OFF TOPIC - MUST SHARE!

Just was sent this by a family member! Family karaoke anyone! ??

Haha, I lived in Japan for 3 years, so now Karaoke happens when I drink, machine or no. Shutter, for Thanksgiving this year, maybe a video with each forum member crooning "The Ballad of DB Cooper" ?

WOW, georger, your family can SING! Remarkable!

Its everywhere... colleagues in Physics now meet at a hangout and do this ... its everywhere. Wish I was 21 again! Damn! Yes we have some pretty talented people in our extended family - I have no idea how this came about. But we do have fun. Had 78 at Thanksgiving this year. Every family has something ... but it sure is fun. A lot of passionate people with more coming on. God bless them all!

[Lynn]

OFF TOPIC - MUST SHARE!

Just was sent this by a family member! Family karaoke anyone! ??

Haha, I lived in Japan for 3 years, so now Karaoke happens when I drink, machine or no. Shutter, for Thanksgiving this year, maybe a video with each forum member crooning "The Ballad of DB Cooper" ?

WOW, georger, your family can SING! Remarkable!

Its everywhere... colleagues in Physics now meet at a hangout and do this ... its everywhere. Wish I was 21 again! Damn! Yes we have some pretty talented people in our extended family - I have no idea how this came about. But we do have fun. Had 78 at Thanksgiving this year. Every family has something ... but it sure is fun.

My own family's from Newfoundland - we'd gather in my grandparents' large kitchen while they were boiling up a feed of freshly harvested mussels, play accordion, guitar, fiddle, spoons, whatever was handy, and dance jigs around the kitchen. However many wanted to show up, so all the doors open to let out the heat! These days, my husband and/or his bandmates play guitar/full rock band and we sing along. Varying levels of ability (he's a prodigy, his band pro level, the rest of us occasionally on-key) but great fun. The number of theatrical level voices in this family is impressive, though!

You don't have to be 21 to do it! Go for it by all means. Some bars have an amazing variety of stuff. I'm partial to jazz singers as I have a fairly low voice. We sing more at home, but occasionally do bar karaoke.

[andrade1812]

I agree with Gene Bland that the reserve parachute could be connected to the V clips on the leg harnesses of the NB 6 or NB 8 rig, though I think he's wrong about it being used to carry the money. There's no room for the money and the parachute in the 70's-era belly packs I have, and only one reserve parachute was found on the plane (as we all know). When I got my NB 8 rig, the first thing I did was try to clip a reserve on it somewhere, and the leg straps were the answer. Cooper may have even believed the reserve would function in this configuration. I read several anecdotes from WWII where belly packs were successfully deployed while improperly attached to the harness (one RAF crewman had to clip his parachute to his rig in freefall, only was able to attach one clip to one side and it still saved his life, though severely injuring him in the process).

[Lynn]

I agree with Gene Bland that the reserve parachute could be connected to the V clips on the leg harnesses of the NB 6 or NB 8 rig, though I think he's wrong about it being used to carry the money. There's no room for the money and the parachute in the 70's-era belly packs I have, and only one reserve parachute was found on the plane (as we all know). When I got my NB 8 rig, the first thing I did was try to clip a reserve on it somewhere, and the leg straps were the answer. Cooper may have even believed the reserve would function in this configuration. I read several anecdotes from WWII where belly packs were successfully deployed while improperly attached to the harness (one RAF crewman had to clip his parachute to his rig in freefall, only was able to attach one clip to one side and it still saved his life, though severely injuring him in the process).

Martin, as this is your find, I'm re-posting the link above to the website of the gentleman with a private interest in airfield properties in Kansas. He or his site might be able to help you hunt down some possible names. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

[Bruce A. Smith]

Gene Bland Update

The Mountain News received some interesting information last night from a fellow named Whitney Du Plessis, with a follow-up by Gene Bland. They name a new suspect, Jim Lowe.


 Whitney Du Plessis says:
April 8, 2018 at 1:21 am (Edit)
My step dad is the late, great Teddy Mayfield. To this day people think it was him! It wasn't. However, About a month before he died we were having a skydivers reunion party out at Sheridan, OR. That Sunday evening there were a few of us still there, having fun. For the first time ever he revealed that he knew who did it. So celebrate, my skydiving brothers and sisters. Not only did DB make the jump and live, the proceeds of his endeavor helped to open a new drop zone and buy a jump plane. AND the following week after the jump, the real DB got to assist the FBI looking through our dz’s records in the efforts to find out it was him. (How he kept a straight face I will never know.).

Reply
 brucesmith49 says:
April 8, 2018 at 1:29 am (Edit)
Okay, Whit, so who is DB Cooper?

Reply
 Whitney Du Plessis says:
April 8, 2018 at 1:38 am (Edit)
Jim Lowe


Response from Gene Bland:

Reply
 Gene says:
April 8, 2018 at 1:51 am (Edit)
Some of us who worked on the case think he used most of the $ to buy a DZ in the midwest. He has since passed, but if he is who I think he is, I put him out on his first ff and later made his first hook up in Carson City NV in ’65.

[dice]

Carr ckret was on dropzone thinking the real Cooper may be too.  Here is him and Jim Lowe talk in the same thread.
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

[Shutter]

I agree with Gene Bland that the reserve parachute could be connected to the V clips on the leg harnesses of the NB 6 or NB 8 rig, though I think he's wrong about it being used to carry the money. There's no room for the money and the parachute in the 70's-era belly packs I have, and only one reserve parachute was found on the plane (as we all know). When I got my NB 8 rig, the first thing I did was try to clip a reserve on it somewhere, and the leg straps were the answer. Cooper may have even believed the reserve would function in this configuration. I read several anecdotes from WWII where belly packs were successfully deployed while improperly attached to the harness (one RAF crewman had to clip his parachute to his rig in freefall, only was able to attach one clip to one side and it still saved his life, though severely injuring him in the process).

It's odd that a master rigger wouldn't know the money would be hard to put in the reserve chute..I have a response from Bland on Facebook..he states once again that both reserves left behind. he claims the training chute was cut up. records indicate the chute being white, not pink and "a complete T7A Chest rig" was found. he also states that mud tracks were leading to a vehicle in the Willamette Valley.." Footprints were found crossing a muddy field and ended at a set of vehicle tracks"

I'm waiting on his response. I asked him about the 3 chutes on the plane along with quotes from documented individuals who inspected the chutes. I also asked him to be more specific in the location of the Willamette Valley since it's 150 miles long.

Jim Lowe is mentioned on the DZ. he was a regular at Issaquah which I believe the FBI went over with a fine tooth comb.

"He was a legend and a fixture at Issaquah Skydiving Center where I started jumping in the early 80's. A former national and world champion, he was an awesome jump pilot. He'd retired from jumping because of some serious back injuries. I always thought of Jim as invincible until he went in trying to re-gain control of a heliostallion in a dive."

[Shutter]

I would ask Jerry Baumchen on the DZ..the name sounds familar, I believe he posted on the Cooper thread..377 surely knows him..

Jim Lowe was one of my best friends; both in jumping and in life. He was never a world champion; he got the classical shaft at the '70 World Meet by a French style judge or he would have been the Overall Champion and he came in 5th in Accuracy at the '74 World Meet (his last major competition) when they called the meet as he had moved up to first place at the time; another shaft
Also, it was 'Sunny Jim' and not Sonny Jim.
I think of him almost every couple of weeks or so; a great guy.

[georger]

I agree with Gene Bland that the reserve parachute could be connected to the V clips on the leg harnesses of the NB 6 or NB 8 rig, though I think he's wrong about it being used to carry the money. There's no room for the money and the parachute in the 70's-era belly packs I have, and only one reserve parachute was found on the plane (as we all know). When I got my NB 8 rig, the first thing I did was try to clip a reserve on it somewhere, and the leg straps were the answer. Cooper may have even believed the reserve would function in this configuration. I read several anecdotes from WWII where belly packs were successfully deployed while improperly attached to the harness (one RAF crewman had to clip his parachute to his rig in freefall, only was able to attach one clip to one side and it still saved his life, though severely injuring him in the process).

It's odd that a master rigger wouldn't know the money would be hard to put in the reserve chute..I have a response from Bland on Facebook..he states once again that both reserves left behind. he claims the training chute was cut up. records indicate the chute being white, not pink and "a complete T7A Chest rig" was found. he also states that mud tracks were leading to a vehicle in the Willamette Valley.." Footprints were found crossing a muddy field and ended at a set of vehicle tracks"

I'm waiting on his response. I asked him about the 3 chutes on the plane along with quotes from documented individuals who inspected the chutes. I also asked him to be more specific in the location of the Willamette Valley since it's 150 miles long.

Jim Lowe is mentioned on the DZ. he was a regular at Issaquah which I believe the FBI went over with a fine tooth comb.

"He was a legend and a fixture at Issaquah Skydiving Center where I started jumping in the early 80's. A former national and world champion, he was an awesome jump pilot. He'd retired from jumping because of some serious back injuries. I always thought of Jim as invincible until he went in trying to re-gain control of a heliostallion in a dive."

I can see where a person with his credentials would be solicited by the FBI for help.

Is he saying he personally was at the suspected DZ in Oregon or that he was just told about it? (Something like this has to be referenced in the files being released - somewhere!) ?
 

[Shutter]

He insist it's first hand info..I asked him to be more detailed about the location but he doesn't pinpoint anything. he states the Bureau believes this...he states this is several years after the crime..."In or around the Willamette Valley"