New Forum & News Updates

[MeyerLouie]

Kermit said,

Bruce ,
You are certainly not being accurate in your Post.

Now, there's a stunner....
Meyer

[Trapper]

Hey wait a second…. Didn’t I say this a few months back in regards to the money floating from the mouth of the Lewis to Tina bar??

FLYJACK you can come up with every statistical measure the Army Corp has to offer or anybody else for that matter i.e.: Graph, Pie Chart, Endless data, River Flows, Power Points etc.….  But the fact of the matter is something simply needs to be dropped at the mouth of the Lewis (buoy??) on a reverse flow and proven to have the ability to float to Tina Bar and I cannot find such data.  I have stated in the past it’s my belief this can happen.  I base this on my personal experience in the river.  Now until I actually conduct the test with my boat and a set of buoys I really don’t have a leg to stand on.  We can talk all day long about the possibility but until a hard test is run I suspect it would be difficult to change anyone’s mind on this forum.

Side note as Shutter has mentioned even with the buoy making the journey you still have to prove the bag of money could do the same.  I suggest the buoy as it’s the easiest test to run.  If successful proceed to step 2 if not well there we have it.

The tide reverses well East of Vancouver I know that for fact!

I had great intentions of running such test this past summer but “work” seemed to have gotten in the way.

[FLYJACK]

Hey wait a second…. Didn’t I say this a few months back in regards to the money floating from the mouth of the Lewis to Tina bar??

FLYJACK you can come up with every statistical measure the Army Corp has to offer or anybody else for that matter i.e.: Graph, Pie Chart, Endless data, River Flows, Power Points etc.….  But the fact of the matter is something simply needs to be dropped at the mouth of the Lewis (buoy??) on a reverse flow and proven to have the ability to float to Tina Bar and I cannot find such data.  I have stated in the past it’s my belief this can happen.  I base this on my personal experience in the river.  Now until I actually conduct the test with my boat and a set of buoys I really don’t have a leg to stand on.  We can talk all day long about the possibility but until a hard test is run I suspect it would be difficult to change anyone’s mind on this forum.

Side note as Shutter has mentioned even with the buoy making the journey you still have to prove the bag of money could do the same.  I suggest the buoy as it’s the easiest test to run.  If successful proceed to step 2 if not well there we have it.

The tide reverses well East of Vancouver I know that for fact!

I had great intentions of running such test this past summer but “work” seemed to have gotten in the way.

Not so simple as throwing a buoy in at flow reversal. The money would have sunk, a surface float wouldn't be accurate. You could try it but it may not tell you much either way. Surface float is affected by wind. Flow reversal conditions and geography has changed greatly over the years..


Thinking more on this theory (not fact) we can break it down into parts.

1. The money landed in Lake Merwin/Lewis River (Cooper most likely died) = UNPROVEN

This is within the possible LZ.

2. The Columbia has a flow reversal at high tide and low discharge reaching TBAR.

Flow/spill data here back to 1971  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

3. The money travelled down the Lewis River to the Columbia and was taken up to TBAR by a flow reversal. = UNPROVEN

This is the most difficult to test, even the pros use sophisticated modelling with many variables and shifting conditions over time it may be impossible. Money was submerged.

One theory I was considering,,

The money bag tumbles down the Lewis River, opens and hits a Columbia flow reversal with most of the bundles gone. Now, the bag is light with a large surface area which can easily be pushed by current flow. The bag with some bundles would now act like a sail underwater.

4. The physical evidence at TBAR matches the theory. = UNPROVEN

[Shutter]

What evidence matches the theory?

In my opinion the only thing that matches anything is the fact of the money being part of the hijacking. NO evidence has supported the ability to move objects in reverse for long periods during flow reversal, or does it state flow reversal works in long distances..

Just because a bullet can travel a mile doesn't mean it can kill you in that distance. something unproven can not match anything. this is what people do with suspects.

Please show the data that supports the moving of objects below the surface for long periods. if it's not there you don't have grounds to state something matches.

at what point did the bag open. it was tied rather tight for the jump. then you need to prove he went into the Lewis river.

[FLYJACK]

What evidence matches the theory?

In my opinion the only thing that matches anything is the fact of the money being part of the hijacking. NO evidence has supported the ability to move objects in reverse for long periods during flow reversal, or does it state flow reversal works in long distances..

Just because a bullet can travel a mile doesn't mean it can kill you in that distance. something unproven can not match anything. this is what people do with suspects.

Please show the data that supports the moving of objects below the surface for long periods. if it's not there you don't have grounds to state something matches.

You seem to lack the concept of a "theory"... if we had proof it wouldn't be a theory

[Trapper]

Fair enough if the consensus amongst the forum is the buoy test is of no use I accept that.  My thought was hey it’s a start.  It’s some form of a physical test rather than talk…  In 40 years frankly there has been little testing in regards to the money arrival.  Which eventually could narrow down where it came from?  Or at the very least eliminate many natural possibilities.

Move to step 2.  Secure a bag with a described weight out the side of the boat with 30# braided line attached during a reverse flow.  Allow the river current to do its magic while following with the boat and at no time putting pressure on the line itself.  Conduct this test with varying weights and see what happens.  If the river readily moves it upstream well we might just have something.

[Shutter]

No, I don't lack anything..you present things as facts most of the time..that's how I see it..a theory only works when proof is behind it...reverse flow occurs, but nothing supports moving at long distances, or for no reason..

[FLYJACK]

No, I don't lack anything..you present things as facts most of the time..that's how I see it..a theory only works when proof is behind it...reverse flow occurs, but nothing supports moving at long distances, or for no reason..

That is your bias operating, I have said it is a theory, unproven etc..

I have NEVER claimed it as fact...

[Shutter]

I've read several PDF's stating this happens around other rivers joining into the Columbia, Lewis, Willamette, Cowliz etc.

I don't see any data in regards to the flow reversal just happening outside of the above, and once again, it doesn't state long distances.

[Shutter]

No, I don't lack anything..you present things as facts most of the time..that's how I see it..a theory only works when proof is behind it...reverse flow occurs, but nothing supports moving at long distances, or for no reason..

That is your bias operating, I have said it is a theory, unproven etc..

I have NEVER claimed it as fact...

I never said you did..I said you present it as fact..that's my opinion..like those with a suspect, they drive things unsupported to fit the theory...

[Shutter]

I have every right to disagree with something that is unsupported by any documentation..flow reversal is real, but very limited..

[FLYJACK]

I've read several PDF's stating this happens around other rivers joining into the Columbia, Lewis, Willamette, Cowliz etc.

I don't see any data in regards to the flow reversal just happening outside of the above, and once again, it doesn't state long distances.

I don't understand your take here..

The Columbia reverses flow due to high tide and low discharge/flow all the way from the mouth up to and beyond TBAR. That is a long distance.

[Shutter]

where is the proof flow reversal takes place between the Lewis river and Tina Bar? we seem to have a lot of documentation about the occurrence around the joining of other rivers, or dams, and other man made objects, or natural. you appear to be placing this occurrence where ever you wish along the Columbia river.

We have zero documentation that this can move objects backwards for long periods without going right back to where the reversal started. you are claiming objects can move backwards and not lose any ground. while thousands of objects are typically found downstream when lost.

[FLYJACK]

I have every right to disagree with something that is unsupported by any documentation..flow reversal is real, but very limited..

yes, of course you do but IMO you are premature in your dismissal. Questioning is part of the process but outright mockery and dismissal for an unknown is a form of self imposed intellectual censorship.

Theories are made up of assumptions to advance and test/challenge new ideas...

You are using assumptions to dismiss an unknown.

Most things are not 100% provable, you just try to get as close as you can.


It may turn out that the flow reversal isn't strong enough but right now that is an assumption.

After 45+ years search don't you think that this theory should be fully vetted/tested.. by all of us the best we can.

[Shutter]

The Columbia reverses flow due to high tide and low discharge/flow all the way from the mouth up to and beyond TBAR. That is a long distance.

Nothing supports that other than the statement of Portland-Vancouver area. more of Portland and Vancouver are before the turn, or bend in the river going north to T-bar. unless you have something different?