New Forum & News Updates

[MeyerLouie]

That money was planted there, not long that long before the people found it to try and make it look like Cooper drowned.

pieces of money were found at different depths..a plant is no longer an option..

I can't find anything online saying that money was found at different dephts. I am not doubting what your saying but could post a link where I can see that. thanks

1. Read my book. Contact Amazon.
2. Visit the Mountain News-WA. net. Read all about it.
3. View my videos at YouTube. Google: Bruce Smith + DB Cooper
4. Read the segments here about the KATU-TV video; a year or so ago. Conclusive proof of the shards at depth.
5. Call me or Georger. We've both spoken with Dorwin Schroeder multiple times, and he was the PIO at T-Bar.
6. Review the findings posted at the Citizen Sleuths regarding the money fragments.

Wow, Bruce Smith actually encouraging someone to go look at real data, real facts -- it's a step in the right direction....

[MeyerLouie]

flow reversal north of Vancouver and Portland? again, it doesn't say how strong it is, and I doubt it will do what you think it can do...


CALL THE CORPS OF ENGINEERS AND FIND OUT..you are not going to convince me with reports of reverse flow...a lot more is involved...

THAT'S THE POINT HERE, LET'S FIND OUT!  Meyer


I know, that is what I am trying to solve, you want to dismiss it go ahead..

IMO, after 45+ years it is worth pursuing..  sometimes nature can do things beyond our perceptions


I AGREE FLYJACK -- IT IS WORTH CHECKING OUT RATHER THAN JUST DISMISSING.  Meyer


From my reading,,

Tidal flow pushes a wedge up the river along the bottom first with river water on top. The water level rises as incoming tidal flow progresses.

If you have a reversal on top that suggests a very strong reversal. The strongest reversal occurs at highest tides and lowest flow/discharge (1979 Columbia R).

We need to find more specific data and research on the Columbia...

Can a flow reversal push "money" at a little over 1mph from the Lewis to TBAR? That is the question

(No hydrologists were harmed in the production of this comment)

FLYJACK is just trying to find out something here, I think he has a valid question.  FLYJACK, I would be willing to track down an expert with the COE who knows Columbia River tides.  Maybe Kermit could point us in the right direction.  Meyer

[Shutter]

He has every right to do as he wishes, just as I have every right to disagree with these findings. I simply pointed out that I find it hard to believe that the money could go upstream for 10 miles.

[MeyerLouie]

He has every right to do as he wishes, just as I have every right to disagree with these findings. I simply pointed out that I find it hard to believe that the money could go upstream for 10 miles.

I find it hard to believe too, and I've stated that here.  But I'm willing to check it out.  FLYJACK is willing to go the extra mile and get data on this particular question.  Rather than just closing one's mind to it -- as something totally preposterous -- why not try to find something that might explain it?  Is there any possible, explainable way the money could have gone upstream for at least 10 miles?  It's worth a look -- why not??

Meyer 

[Shutter]

I will say it again, people seem to have trouble following what I say...I said three times before that I didn't base my conclusions on "common sense" but kept getting that response. now, I have went round and round with Flyjack about the money moving upstream and my concerns which include data, lead me to believe it's not possible...I have directed him several times to the Corps of engineers to ask them..I haven't closed my mind on anything..believing it is another thing as well. the Corps would be the experts on the river..

seeing currents go against the flow are not that uncommon, but to move objects a great distance is. I need a lot more proof than the fact of rivers having reverse flow. this implies that a 10 mile or greater distance completely shifts moving everything in it's path against the natural current. I've seen no proof of this concept. until I do, I continue to remain out of this theory.

This theory also implies the money landed in the Lewis river...nobody has been able to disclose where Cooper actually jumped to begin with...two things with zero proof..

[MeyerLouie]

I will say it again, people seem to have trouble following what I say...I said three times before that I didn't base my conclusions on "common sense" but kept getting that response. now, I have went round and round with Flyjack about the money moving upstream and my concerns which include data

What data?
Meyer

[Shutter]

I will say it again, people seem to have trouble following what I say...I said three times before that I didn't base my conclusions on "common sense" but kept getting that response. now, I have went round and round with Flyjack about the money moving upstream and my concerns which include data

What data?
Meyer

reading data concerning reverse flow...

[Shutter]

In highly curved river bends, flow may separate at the inner bank to create a recirculation eddy with weak upstream flow. Very little is known about how recirculation eddies connect with the downstream flow or how the latter is affected by their presence. We investigate these questions using three-dimensional time-averaged computational fluid dynamics models of two natural bends with inner-bank separation. Test measurements of velocity in one bend agree well with the simulation. Common points in the two simulations are that (1) an outer-bank helix is only present in the upstream part of the bend, (2) maximum near-bank velocities are highest here rather than beyond the apex as in most bends, (3) reverse flow extends farther across the channel at the surface than the bed, and (4) flow within the recirculation eddy has a three-dimensional structure, linked with that in the outer-bank free stream. Substantial differences in detail between the two bends appear to be due to differences in upstream planform, manifested through the lateral distribution of inflow velocity.

[FLYJACK]

I realize Prescott is not TBAR, but interesting study.

Study done at Prescott, measuring complete flow reversal in Columbia.

highest occurrence in Aug. Sept. Oct.
21 flow reversals over 5 hours duration.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

[Shutter]

seems to be yet again another link with other rivers flowing in, or out of the Columbia..and weakens further down the river..

[FLYJACK]

seems to be yet again another link with other rivers flowing in, or out of the Columbia..and weakens further down the river..

Not necessarily, tidal impact goes 11 RM up the Lewis

US Army Corps of Engineers, Columbia flow reversal as far as RM 90, beyond the Lewis and very very close to TBAR. The flow goes further at river bottom.. And, the conditions changed dramatically over the years.. 1979 a very low discharge year.. means further reversal.

Not proof, but supports further investigation.. Reverse Flow can reach TBAR but can it move "money"?

"Columbia and Lower Willamette River Navigational Channel integrated Dredged Material Management study (DMMS) and Supplemental Environmental Impact statement (SEIS)"

[Robert99]

seems to be yet again another link with other rivers flowing in, or out of the Columbia..and weakens further down the river..

Not necessarily, tidal impact goes 11 RM up the Lewis

US Army Corps of Engineers, Columbia flow reversal as far as RM 90, beyond the Lewis and very very close to TBAR. The flow goes further at river bottom.. And, the conditions changed dramatically over the years.. 1979 a very low discharge year.. means further reversal.

Not proof, but supports further investigation.. Reverse Flow can reach TBAR but can it move "money"?

"Columbia and Lower Willamette River Navigational Channel integrated Dredged Material Management study (DMMS) and Supplemental Environmental Impact statement (SEIS)"

What is the source of your statement that flow reversal goes further at the bottom of the river?

[georger]

He has every right to do as he wishes, just as I have every right to disagree with these findings. I simply pointed out that I find it hard to believe that the money could go upstream for 10 miles.

Maybe Cooper had a water cycle ?

Water walking floats is also a possibility.

[georger]

... It puts his LZ near the west end of Lake Merwin. That puts a water path to TBAR in play. If he landed in Lake Merwin and sat on the bottom in a deep cold water environment for eight years before some money came loose and floated down the Lewis River then via tide up stream 15 km to TBAR..

Ah, the Propeller Theory strikes again!

When I was at T-Bar in 2011, I was very impressed with the speed of the river current. 4-5 knots I should say. It really pulled me along when I went swimmin' (it was 105 degrees!)

Thus, it is hard for me to believe in a tidal effect 60 miles inland from the ocean, despite what Al Fazio says about tides at T-Bar. As for pushin' a  bunch of money upstream for six miles, well as we say in Flatbush: forgetaboutit!

Bruce ,
You are certainly not being accurate in your Post. I can assure you that the Tidal affect does indeed affect not only as far upstream of Tina Bar but also up the Willamette River as far as Willamette Falls in Oregon City area. I. Had a beach blanket stretch out close to shoreline as I went off skiing. Some friends had to move my stuff as Tidal affects were causing river to rise. The Willamette flows into the Columbia a few miles from Tina Bar. Also I’m pretty sure Tina Bar is more 60 miles inland from ocean and the Lewis river is more than 6 miles downstream from Tina Bar. I doubt the river would be 4 or 5 knots in that area. Of course you’re joking about the 105 degrees but someone might actually believe you.
However I seriously doubt that a sack of Money could possibly travel that many miles upstream ! So I guess I’m with you on that one ! I consider this whole theory as preposterous but that just me I guess.

Kermit, Im just trying to nail down what people are saying or not saying.

So I take it you do not think money could travel from the Lewis to Tina Bar, tide reversal notwithstanding?

Have you ever seen anything transported between the Lewis River and Tina Bar, hydrologically? A boat, a log, a beach ball .... anything? 

[MeyerLouie]

seems to be yet again another link with other rivers flowing in, or out of the Columbia..and weakens further down the river..

Not necessarily, tidal impact goes 11 RM up the Lewis

US Army Corps of Engineers, Columbia flow reversal as far as RM 90, beyond the Lewis and very very close to TBAR. The flow goes further at river bottom.. And, the conditions changed dramatically over the years.. 1979 a very low discharge year.. means further reversal.

Not proof, but supports further investigation.. Reverse Flow can reach TBAR but can it move "money"?

"Columbia and Lower Willamette River Navigational Channel integrated Dredged Material Management study (DMMS) and Supplemental Environmental Impact statement (SEIS)"

Very interesting, amazing research.  Just got an education in flow reversals.  Thanks for sharing.
Meyer