Author Topic: New Forum & News Updates  (Read 2229287 times)

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #3465 on: August 17, 2017, 02:54:50 PM »
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"Private plane with weird tail lite was circling the area during the hijacking and landed in a clearing after being in the area (practicing) for several days."

These rotating beacons are mostly mfd by Grimes. I know a bit about Grimes lights and even have a few. It's not common to see oversized Grimes beacons on Cessnas but it's not super rare either. The Cessna 182 is a common small DZ jumpship and I have seen a few of them with big Grimes lights mounted on top of the vert stabilizer. The light pattern from the Grimes beacons is aimed horizontally, designed to give the brightest flash to aircraft at or near you own altitude, which makes sense for collision avoidance. Most models can be seen from above but not nearly as well as from the side. Some have opaque caps on top. Take a look here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Brand new Grimes lights are ridiculously expensive, costing over 1000 dollars. When an OE one fails, plane owners often find working used ones dirt cheap. Some of these are larger than the ones Cessna put on new planes and even though it isn't a drop in replacement it's cheaper to fair in a big used one than buy a drop in new one. It's legal if properly papered including a revised weight and balance sheet.

If someone wanted to be easily seen from above you'd mount a few (then Xenon now LED) strobes on top of the fuselage. A big Grimes beacon isn't the ideal signaling device for being seen from above.

TC has done us all a HUGE favor by tenaciously pursuing, at considerable expense, FBI FOIA requests with some interesting results. I don't think his recent fabric find came from an NB 8 but that's just me speculating based on its badly degraded condition which I wouldn't expect for buried mil spec chute gear. If his piece is from an NB 8 there should be a lot of unique metal rig pieces nearby and so far none have been found as far as I know.

His candidate still intrigues me. Rackstraw is the only one who has a history of aviation crime and he is an especially noteworthy sociopath according to a trial judge who has probably seen many hundreds.  Rackstraw's age tells me he couldn't have been DBC, but eyewitnesses often err on age. He had a grudge, a big one. He needed money. He was a qualified aviator, jumper, explosives expert and con man. I've always doubted that Norjack was DBC's first rodeo and Rackstraw has a rich deep criminal history.

I have talked to TC. He is a smart guy. No way is he going to call a burlap strip as having originated from an NB 8. The weave looks too coarse for parachute gear but I am no expert on fabrics.

377

Nobody is going to believe me (or accept what I say) , in any event! Part of that has to do with my neutrality which I told TC over and over again to the point of nausea, when he tried to recruit me as one of his 'experts', years ago! I helped TC find some of Ingram's relatives but beyond that, I stopped trying to assist in any manner.

I dont know what a NYLON parachute fabric looks like after 46 years in the ground, but I do note that every parachute fabric (container cloth or strap material) I have ever seen, has a rather close (tight) weave probably to give the fabric strength? My guess is that if parachute fabric was buried and exposed to  the elements for a number of years, the cloth would not lose its inherent 'tight weave'? But thats just a guess. I base this to some degree on the fact that nylon is a synthetic fabric and not biodegradable. A fabric made from nylon does not degrade enough over time to lose the weave spacing that was inherent to that fabric in the beginning, compared with biodegradable fabrics like cotton etc. That's just my layman's thought given without further analysis.

I do not see a tight weave/wove in TC's specimen? Maybe others do. I wonder if they even have the fabric correctly identified as nylon? They must. TC abd his Experts are never wrong!  :chr2:

Look for yourself.   I dont see close stitching and a tight weave/wove that I do see in all parachute fabrics, including parachute straps? In fact, if this is a strap, I dont see the thickness I see in most parachute straps. This specimen Colbert is showing is a "weak sister" for a strap! It doesn't look to me like it ever had any real strength if it is a "strap"!  I wouldnt bet my life on this socalled "strap"! And! The dimensions look wrong for a strap! Where on any parachute does this strap fit?

Come on experts - get with the program! We need answers!
 
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 03:01:40 PM by georger »
 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #3466 on: August 17, 2017, 03:21:52 PM »
Here is Hayden's parachute given Cooper! - fabric - up close and personal.

Does this compare or match with Colbert's socalled parachute strap fabric?

Take special note of the weave-wove pattern in the fabric.

Make special note of the strap wove pattern!

How would this Nylon fabric look after 46 years in the ground?

Couldn't Colbert and his experts have made this simple comparison !!!!!!! DUUUUUH!

IF THE GLOVES DONT FIT YOU MUST AQUIT!  :congrats:


Photo Credit - Mr. Bruce Smith (Mountain News). Thanks Bruce!
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 03:49:04 PM by georger »
 
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georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #3467 on: August 17, 2017, 03:45:02 PM »
or this --- note the colors of the fabrics! I am willing to bet that the 'colorimetry' alone of Colbert's strap does't even begin to match anything available on any chute (fabric) given Cooper ... or maybe any parachute fabric from the era at all?  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login)

parachutre strap material has closed edges and is over sewn - not open as per the Colbert material!
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 04:22:36 PM by georger »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #3468 on: August 17, 2017, 04:20:07 PM »
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"Private plane with weird tail lite was circling the area during the hijacking and landed in a clearing after being in the area (practicing) for several days."

These rotating beacons are mostly mfd by Grimes. I know a bit about Grimes lights and even have a few. It's not common to see oversized Grimes beacons on Cessnas but it's not super rare either. The Cessna 182 is a common small DZ jumpship and I have seen a few of them with big Grimes lights mounted on top of the vert stabilizer. The light pattern from the Grimes beacons is aimed horizontally, designed to give the brightest flash to aircraft at or near you own altitude, which makes sense for collision avoidance. Most models can be seen from above but not nearly as well as from the side. Some have opaque caps on top. Take a look here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Brand new Grimes lights are ridiculously expensive, costing over 1000 dollars. When an OE one fails, plane owners often find working used ones dirt cheap. Some of these are larger than the ones Cessna put on new planes and even though it isn't a drop in replacement it's cheaper to fair in a big used one than buy a drop in new one. It's legal if properly papered including a revised weight and balance sheet.

If someone wanted to be easily seen from above you'd mount a few (then Xenon now LED) strobes on top of the fuselage. A big Grimes beacon isn't the ideal signaling device for being seen from above.

TC has done us all a HUGE favor by tenaciously pursuing, at considerable expense, FBI FOIA requests with some interesting results. I don't think his recent fabric find came from an NB 8 but that's just me speculating based on its badly degraded condition which I wouldn't expect for buried mil spec chute gear. If his piece is from an NB 8 there should be a lot of unique metal rig pieces nearby and so far none have been found as far as I know.

His candidate still intrigues me. Rackstraw is the only one who has a history of aviation crime and he is an especially noteworthy sociopath according to a trial judge who has probably seen many hundreds.  Rackstraw's age tells me he couldn't have been DBC, but eyewitnesses often err on age. He had a grudge, a big one. He needed money. He was a qualified aviator, jumper, explosives expert and con man. I've always doubted that Norjack was DBC's first rodeo and Rackstraw has a rich deep criminal history.

I have talked to TC. He is a smart guy. No way is he going to call a burlap strip as having originated from an NB 8. The weave looks too coarse for parachute gear but I am no expert on fabrics.

377

There you go again, Three-Seven-Seven with the NB-8! (What am I going to do with you...???!!!)

Could this TJC fabric be from a Pioneer/Steinthaul rig? That's the chute and container DBC allegedly used, as per statements from Norman Hayden.
 

Offline 377

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #3469 on: August 17, 2017, 04:23:55 PM »
See pic below. I think TC believes the best match is with the center pin protector flap on the container, not a load bearing harness strap.

377
 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #3470 on: August 17, 2017, 04:26:42 PM »
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"Private plane with weird tail lite was circling the area during the hijacking and landed in a clearing after being in the area (practicing) for several days."

These rotating beacons are mostly mfd by Grimes. I know a bit about Grimes lights and even have a few. It's not common to see oversized Grimes beacons on Cessnas but it's not super rare either. The Cessna 182 is a common small DZ jumpship and I have seen a few of them with big Grimes lights mounted on top of the vert stabilizer. The light pattern from the Grimes beacons is aimed horizontally, designed to give the brightest flash to aircraft at or near you own altitude, which makes sense for collision avoidance. Most models can be seen from above but not nearly as well as from the side. Some have opaque caps on top. Take a look here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Brand new Grimes lights are ridiculously expensive, costing over 1000 dollars. When an OE one fails, plane owners often find working used ones dirt cheap. Some of these are larger than the ones Cessna put on new planes and even though it isn't a drop in replacement it's cheaper to fair in a big used one than buy a drop in new one. It's legal if properly papered including a revised weight and balance sheet.

If someone wanted to be easily seen from above you'd mount a few (then Xenon now LED) strobes on top of the fuselage. A big Grimes beacon isn't the ideal signaling device for being seen from above.

TC has done us all a HUGE favor by tenaciously pursuing, at considerable expense, FBI FOIA requests with some interesting results. I don't think his recent fabric find came from an NB 8 but that's just me speculating based on its badly degraded condition which I wouldn't expect for buried mil spec chute gear. If his piece is from an NB 8 there should be a lot of unique metal rig pieces nearby and so far none have been found as far as I know.

His candidate still intrigues me. Rackstraw is the only one who has a history of aviation crime and he is an especially noteworthy sociopath according to a trial judge who has probably seen many hundreds.  Rackstraw's age tells me he couldn't have been DBC, but eyewitnesses often err on age. He had a grudge, a big one. He needed money. He was a qualified aviator, jumper, explosives expert and con man. I've always doubted that Norjack was DBC's first rodeo and Rackstraw has a rich deep criminal history.

I have talked to TC. He is a smart guy. No way is he going to call a burlap strip as having originated from an NB 8. The weave looks too coarse for parachute gear but I am no expert on fabrics.

377

There you go again, Three-Seven-Seven with the NB-8! (What am I going to do with you...???!!!)

Could this TJC fabric be from a Pioneer/Steinthaul rig? That's the chute and container DBC allegedly used, as per statements from Norman Hayden.

I had the same question but could only resort to the Hayden photos you had. So, someone give us a good photo of the Pioneer/Steinthaul rig. Im willing to bet the fabrics arent even close, not to mention fabric chemical colorimetry!.
This is a matter for a lab.
 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #3471 on: August 17, 2017, 04:29:39 PM »
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See pic below. I think TC believes the best match is with the center pin protector flap on the container, not a load bearing harness strap.

377

Are you looking at the Marine green stripe on his glove or the fabric he's holding? Again look at the fabrics! I see the parachute photo. They are not the same types of fabrics ? Ive run out of time today...
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 04:30:41 PM by georger »
 

Offline 377

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #3472 on: August 17, 2017, 04:31:44 PM »
Woven polypropylene sacks are common in ag use and have a coarse weave. Hope TC can get a lab to analyse exactly what fabric he has.

Bruce, yeah, maybe NB 6 or even Pioneer. You recall more Norman rig facts than I do.

377
 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #3473 on: August 17, 2017, 04:34:12 PM »
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Woven polypropylene sacks are common in ag use and have a coarse weave. Hope TC can get a lab to analyse exactly what fabric he has.

Bruce, yeah, maybe NB 6 or even Pioneer. You recall more Norman rig facts than I do.

377

someone post a Pioneer/Steinthaul photo!
 

georger

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #3474 on: August 17, 2017, 04:36:11 PM »
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Woven polypropylene sacks are common in ag use and have a coarse weave. Hope TC can get a lab to analyse exactly what fabric he has.

Bruce, yeah, maybe NB 6 or even Pioneer. You recall more Norman rig facts than I do.

377

It sure looks like a coarse weave to me ? That does not look like tightly woven parachute fabric, from anywhere on any parachute? And the colorimetry is all wrong.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 04:36:38 PM by georger »
 

Offline 377

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #3475 on: August 17, 2017, 04:47:37 PM »
Looks too coarse to me, but thats a guess since I've never seen parachute rig fabric in such degraded condition. Certainly as manufactured the weaves I have seen are much tighter.

377
 

Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #3476 on: August 17, 2017, 05:17:41 PM »
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Looks too coarse to me, but thats a guess since I've never seen parachute rig fabric in such degraded condition. Certainly as manufactured the weaves I have seen are much tighter.

377

Georger and 377 are correct.  Whatever it is that Colbert found is NOT from a parachute.  Period.  And as I have said previously, I'll stick with Georger's burlap bag description until hell freezes over, or whatever comes later. :)
 

Offline Kermit

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #3477 on: August 17, 2017, 06:53:16 PM »

My question is simple. How did this strap get separated from the chute ? Did Coop cut it off and IF SO why ? I would think the rest of the chute should be right next or more likely.... still attached ! The $150,000 should be in same dig or ........ don't hold us hostage and say it's buried somewhere in the 200 acre hidden secret place. I have 2.6 acres and that's a large area to dig up. 200 acres and it might be another 46 years. Just show us the MONEY and all this discussion is irrelevant !
 

Robert99

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #3478 on: August 17, 2017, 07:00:12 PM »
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My question is simple. How did this strap get separated from the chute ? Did Coop cut it off and IF SO why ? I would think the rest of the chute should be right next or more likely.... still attached ! The $150,000 should be in same dig or ........ don't hold us hostage and say it's buried somewhere in the 200 acre hidden secret place. I have 2.6 acres and that's a large area to dig up. 200 acres and it might be another 46 years. Just show us the MONEY and all this discussion is irrelevant !

Like the recent claims about the Tina Bar money not being from the money given to Cooper, this is just another bit of nonsense.  The piece of cloth is not a "strap" from a parachute or even a piece of a parachute.

There is enough false information already in circulation about the Cooper hijacking and further discussion of this just adds more.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2017, 07:01:19 PM by Robert99 »
 
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Offline dice

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Re: New Forum & News Updates
« Reply #3479 on: August 17, 2017, 08:42:40 PM »
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Looks too coarse to me, but thats a guess since I've never seen parachute rig fabric in such degraded condition. Certainly as manufactured the weaves I have seen are much tighter.

377

Let's consider the expansion contraction cycles from the cold weather of the past 46 years, before we discount it as a nylon textile, even if it looks much more like a canvas bag remnant.   
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