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[georger]

R99 wrote: "I don't think so.   But that could be part of a burlap bag.  Unless the parachute, including all of its metal parts, is found within a few inches of this thing, then we can forget about all the money that is suppose to be buried there as well."

Most metal parachute harness-container functional hardware is unique and is either cadmium plated steel or stainless steel. There are some parts that will rust like the button snaps on covers, but all the load bearing stuff would stand up to decades if not centuries of harsh outdoor exposure and remain intact and identifiable. Finding parachute harness-container fabric without any metal parts nearby sounds pretty unlikely.

377

The issue is this piece of fabric found - it is being called a "strap" by Colbert etal.

This "strap" has apparently been sent into Washington DC FBI for analysis on the contention it could be part of a parachute! That's what Colbert is saying ...

[georger]

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They call it, quote: " A strap, perhaps from the famed D.B. Cooper's parachute, was reportedly found recently in the Pacific Northwest and handed over to the FBI as new evidence in the 46-year-old hijacking case.

The piece of canvas was located on private property in an unreleased location thought by a private D.B. Cooper investigator to be perhaps ... "

So, we have a piece of canvas which is a strap, ...  only the FBI in Washington can identify! Yoder Feed sack specialists need not apply. Only select friends and associates of Tom Colbert need apply.

<edit> in the last ten minutes 80 new news orgs have picked up the story! Will @POTUS comment!    One expert proclaims 'they have found DB Cooper's long johns'!

[Robert99]

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They call it, quote: " A strap, perhaps from the famed D.B. Cooper's parachute, was reportedly found recently in the Pacific Northwest and handed over to the FBI as new evidence in the 46-year-old hijacking case.

The piece of canvas was located on private property in an unreleased location thought by a private D.B. Cooper investigator to be perhaps ... "

So, we have a piece of canvas which is a strap, ...  only the FBI in Washington can identify! Yoder Feed sack specialists need not apply. Only select friends and associates of Tom Colbert need apply.

<edit> in the last ten minutes 80 new news orgs have picked up the story! Will @POTUS comment!    One expert proclaims 'they have found DB Cooper's long johns'!

That "strap" is not a piece of canvas either.  I'll stick with Georger's feed sack description until proven otherwise.  What kind of animal feed (and for what animals?) came in burlap bags in the past several decades in that part of the country?

[georger]

Seattle PI is now onboard. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

They call it, quote: " A strap, perhaps from the famed D.B. Cooper's parachute, was reportedly found recently in the Pacific Northwest and handed over to the FBI as new evidence in the 46-year-old hijacking case.

The piece of canvas was located on private property in an unreleased location thought by a private D.B. Cooper investigator to be perhaps ... "

So, we have a piece of canvas which is a strap, ...  only the FBI in Washington can identify! Yoder Feed sack specialists need not apply. Only select friends and associates of Tom Colbert need apply.

<edit> in the last ten minutes 80 new news orgs have picked up the story! Will @POTUS comment!    One expert proclaims 'they have found DB Cooper's long johns'!

That "strap" is not a piece of canvas either.  I'll stick with Georger's feed sack description until proven otherwise.  What kind of animal feed (and for what animals?) came in burlap bags in the past several decades in that part of the country?

Beats me. Could be anything... cattle or chicken feed would be common.

Or, OMG ... the Shroud of Cooper! ? 

If they have found the Shroud of Cooper that closes the case, and closes out all suspects. Colbert can go on a lecturing tour with TV appearances and retire knowing he closed the case.   

[Robert99]

Seattle PI is now onboard. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

They call it, quote: " A strap, perhaps from the famed D.B. Cooper's parachute, was reportedly found recently in the Pacific Northwest and handed over to the FBI as new evidence in the 46-year-old hijacking case.

The piece of canvas was located on private property in an unreleased location thought by a private D.B. Cooper investigator to be perhaps ... "

So, we have a piece of canvas which is a strap, ...  only the FBI in Washington can identify! Yoder Feed sack specialists need not apply. Only select friends and associates of Tom Colbert need apply.

<edit> in the last ten minutes 80 new news orgs have picked up the story! Will @POTUS comment!    One expert proclaims 'they have found DB Cooper's long johns'!

That "strap" is not a piece of canvas either.  I'll stick with Georger's feed sack description until proven otherwise.  What kind of animal feed (and for what animals?) came in burlap bags in the past several decades in that part of the country?

Beats me. Could be anything... cattle or chicken feed would be common.

Or, OMG ... the Shroud of Cooper! ? 

If they have found the Shroud of Cooper that closes the case, and closes out all suspects. Colbert can go on a lecturing tour with TV appearances and retire knowing he closed the case.

If that is Cooper's image, then we are all doomed!

[georger]

Seattle PI is now onboard. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

They call it, quote: " A strap, perhaps from the famed D.B. Cooper's parachute, was reportedly found recently in the Pacific Northwest and handed over to the FBI as new evidence in the 46-year-old hijacking case.

The piece of canvas was located on private property in an unreleased location thought by a private D.B. Cooper investigator to be perhaps ... "

So, we have a piece of canvas which is a strap, ...  only the FBI in Washington can identify! Yoder Feed sack specialists need not apply. Only select friends and associates of Tom Colbert need apply.

<edit> in the last ten minutes 80 new news orgs have picked up the story! Will @POTUS comment!    One expert proclaims 'they have found DB Cooper's long johns'!

That "strap" is not a piece of canvas either.  I'll stick with Georger's feed sack description until proven otherwise.  What kind of animal feed (and for what animals?) came in burlap bags in the past several decades in that part of the country?

Beats me. Could be anything... cattle or chicken feed would be common.

Or, OMG ... the Shroud of Cooper! ? 

If they have found the Shroud of Cooper that closes the case, and closes out all suspects. Colbert can go on a lecturing tour with TV appearances and retire knowing he closed the case.

If that is Cooper's image, then we are all doomed!

It also makes all issues vanish as mute - Colbert can retire with his dignity. 

[georger]

Further detail: the "strap" is "nylon" says, Tom Colbert.

"FBI Supervisor Hadley McCann studied the nylon strap after it was found by former Vietnam Marine Jim Erwin."  (Tom Colbert, TV Producer)









   

[377]

Regarding TC's fabric piece, I've never seen a piece of a parachute harness-container in such bad condition which is one reason why I can't identify it as being of that origin. Nylon container fabric is rugged stuff and holds up well. The most damage comes from UV exposure. If something is buried or submerged it generally holds up really well. A while back I posted about a parachute rig that was found in a submerged military plane that was many decades old. It looked in great condition, like you could dry it out and jump it. The POBs (pack opening bands) are unique pieces of hardware that have steel springs encased in nylon straps. The also have end piece clips that are stainless steel. The POB function is to forcibly pull back the sides of the container when the ripcord pins are pulled out of their cones. Should be eight POBs out there from DBC's rig.

377

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[georger]

Regarding TC's fabric piece, I've never seen a piece of a parachute harness-container in such bad condition which is one reason why I can't identify it as being of that origin. Nylon container fabric is rugged stuff and holds up well. The most damage comes from UV exposure. If something is buried or submerged it generally holds up really well. A while back I posted about a parachute rig that was found in a submerged military plane that was many decades old. It looked in great condition, like you could dry it out and jump it. The POBs (pack opening bands) are unique pieces of hardware that have steel springs encased in nylon straps. The also have end piece clips that are stainless steel. The POB function is to forcibly pull back the sides of the container when the ripcord pins are pulled out of their cones. Should be eight POBs out there from DBC's rig.

377

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I wonder why that is - that nylon a synthetic polymide would last so much longer than fabrics made of biodegrable plant or animal based fibres like jute/burlap ? Can someone explain it?
 

[Kermit]

Since I obviously have lots of concerns about Tom Colbert's latest disclosure, I think we should start a list of our concerns. I would suggest we start with 1. Highly unlikely to have happened. 2. Totally impossible. We could then address our concerns one at a time and give each one it's pros and cons ! I will start it off with totally impossible.
Its totally impossible for any of the money arriving at Tina Bar via the dredging of Vancouver Lake. Why ? The dredging didn't even start until May, 1982. I'm sure we have a few more. This isn't bashing but simply asking how !

[georger]

Since I obviously have lots of concerns about Tom Colbert's latest disclosure, I think we should start a list of our concerns. I would suggest we start with 1. Highly unlikely to have happened. 2. Totally impossible. We could then address our concerns one at a time and give each one it's pros and cons ! I will start it off with totally impossible.
Its totally impossible for any of the money arriving at Tina Bar via the dredging of Vancouver Lake. Why ? The dredging didn't even start until May, 1982. I'm sure we have a few more. This isn't bashing but simply asking how !

Maybe just list the claims - they are so many!

1. Hijacking was a conspiracy (3 or more people who had knowledge of it.).
2. Weird man was seen carrying brief case in the rain in a remote location near LaCentre.
3. Nobody apparently saw weird man get on a private plane.
4. Hijacker buried chute and money in the area where he landed ? Artifacts have been found, sent for analysis.
5. Private plane with weird tail lite was circling the area during the hijacking and landed in a clearing after being in the area (practicing) for several days.
6. Private plane transported hijacker to ...
7. Private plane transported hijacker to Vancouver Lake where they dropped the chute and briefcase into the lake (same chute and briefcase and money as they claim is buried near LaCenter), then spread $50k of Cooper money over the mud lake. All items sunk due it being a muddy lake. This was supposed to convince FBI Cooper had landed at Vancouver Lake and died in his drop. Ploy failed to convince FBI Cooper was dead some date uncertain ...
8. Dredging spoil of Vancouver Lake was dumped at Tina Bar which accounts for Schreuder's money fragments at Tina Bar. Date of this dredging not stated by Colbert etal!
9. 1980 Named person goes back to Tina Bar and buries Ingram bundles for Ingram to find, to convince a second time the FBI that Cooper est morte?
 
Please fill in, amend, whatever as seen fit.

Rank each Colbert claim above according to level of belief.

[sources for above: Colbert pdf sent many and news coverage statements] Shutter has yet to post Colbert's pdf at this website but has been given permission to do so.

[MeyerLouie]

Since I obviously have lots of concerns about Tom Colbert's latest disclosure, I think we should start a list of our concerns. I would suggest we start with 1. Highly unlikely to have happened. 2. Totally impossible. We could then address our concerns one at a time and give each one it's pros and cons ! I will start it off with totally impossible.
Its totally impossible for any of the money arriving at Tina Bar via the dredging of Vancouver Lake. Why ? The dredging didn't even start until May, 1982. I'm sure we have a few more. This isn't bashing but simply asking how !

Maybe just list the claims - they are so many!

1. Hijacking was a conspiracy (3 or more people who had knowledge of it.).
2. Weird man was seen carrying brief case in the rain in a remote location near LaCentre.
3. Nobody apparently saw weird man get on a private plane.
4. Hijacker buried chute and money in the area where he landed ? Artifacts have been found, sent for analysis.
5. Private plane with weird tail lite was circling the area during the hijacking and landed in a clearing after being in the area (practicing) for several days.
6. Private plane transported hijacker to ...
7. Private plane transported hijacker to Vancouver Lake where they dropped the chute and briefcase into the lake (same chute and briefcase and money as they claim is buried near LaCenter), then spread $50k of Cooper money over the mud lake. All items sunk due it being a muddy lake. This was supposed to convince FBI Cooper had landed at Vancouver Lake and died in his drop. Ploy failed to convince FBI Cooper was dead some date uncertain ...
8. Dreding spoil of Vancouver Lake was dumped at Tina Bar which accounts for Schreuder's money fragments at Tina Bar. Date of this dredging not stated by Colbert etal!
9. 1980 Named person goes back to Tina Bar and buries Ingram bundles for Ingram to find, to convince a second time the FBI that Cooper est morte?
 
Please fill in, amend, whatever as seen fit.

Rank each Colbert claim above according to level of belief.

[sources for above: Colbert pdf sent many and news coverage statements] Shutter has yet to post Colbert's pdf at this website but has been given permission to do so.

Frankly, I am in total shock that some folks believe these claims are even believable.  But it's a free country, anybody can believe what they choose to believe.  These claims already do not hold up under any kind of scrutiny.  I'm quite shocked, actually.... but it is what it is. 

On a positive note though (yes folks, even I, Meyer Louie, can say something positive about guys named Tom), Colbert's efforts to get information procured and available via FOIA is commendable.  Also, his History Channel program got key Cooper people to come out again -- something I thought was not even remotely possible -  Tina, Rataczak, Curtis Eng, Ckret's appearance, and others.  True, the producers made it all happen, but Colbert was there and his guy was being scrutinized.

Meyer

[georger]

Since I obviously have lots of concerns about Tom Colbert's latest disclosure, I think we should start a list of our concerns. I would suggest we start with 1. Highly unlikely to have happened. 2. Totally impossible. We could then address our concerns one at a time and give each one it's pros and cons ! I will start it off with totally impossible.
Its totally impossible for any of the money arriving at Tina Bar via the dredging of Vancouver Lake. Why ? The dredging didn't even start until May, 1982. I'm sure we have a few more. This isn't bashing but simply asking how !

Maybe just list the claims - they are so many!

1. Hijacking was a conspiracy (3 or more people who had knowledge of it.).
2. Weird man was seen carrying brief case in the rain in a remote location near LaCentre.
3. Nobody apparently saw weird man get on a private plane.
4. Hijacker buried chute and money in the area where he landed ? Artifacts have been found, sent for analysis.
5. Private plane with weird tail lite was circling the area during the hijacking and landed in a clearing after being in the area (practicing) for several days.
6. Private plane transported hijacker to ...
7. Private plane transported hijacker to Vancouver Lake where they dropped the chute and briefcase into the lake (same chute and briefcase and money as they claim is buried near LaCenter), then spread $50k of Cooper money over the mud lake. All items sunk due it being a muddy lake. This was supposed to convince FBI Cooper had landed at Vancouver Lake and died in his drop. Ploy failed to convince FBI Cooper was dead some date uncertain ...
8. Dreding spoil of Vancouver Lake was dumped at Tina Bar which accounts for Schreuder's money fragments at Tina Bar. Date of this dredging not stated by Colbert etal!
9. 1980 Named person goes back to Tina Bar and buries Ingram bundles for Ingram to find, to convince a second time the FBI that Cooper est morte?
 
Please fill in, amend, whatever as seen fit.

Rank each Colbert claim above according to level of belief.

[sources for above: Colbert pdf sent many and news coverage statements] Shutter has yet to post Colbert's pdf at this website but has been given permission to do so.

Frankly, I am in total shock that some folks believe these claims are even believable.  But it's a free country, anybody can believe what they choose to believe.  These claims already do not hold up under any kind of scrutiny.  I'm quite shocked, actually.... but it is what it is. 

On a positive note though (yes folks, even I, Meyer Louie, can say something positive about guys named Tom), Colbert's efforts to get information procured and available via FOIA is commendable.  Also, his History Channel program got key Cooper people to come out again -- something I thought was not even remotely possible -  Tina, Rataczak, Curtis Eng, Ckret's appearance, and others.  True, the producers made it all happen, but Colbert was there and his guy was being scrutinized.

Meyer

" The wind blows where it wants to. You hear its sound, but you don't know where it comes from or where it is going. That's the way it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit. In one place then in another. Who can know. Do not seek them for they shall not be found."

[377]

"Private plane with weird tail lite was circling the area during the hijacking and landed in a clearing after being in the area (practicing) for several days."

These rotating beacons are mostly mfd by Grimes. I know a bit about Grimes lights and even have a few. It's not common to see oversized Grimes beacons on Cessnas but it's not super rare either. The Cessna 182 is a common small DZ jumpship and I have seen a few of them with big Grimes lights mounted on top of the vert stabilizer. The light pattern from the Grimes beacons is aimed horizontally, designed to give the brightest flash to aircraft at or near you own altitude, which makes sense for collision avoidance. Most models can be seen from above but not nearly as well as from the side. Some have opaque caps on top. Take a look here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Brand new Grimes lights are ridiculously expensive, costing over 1000 dollars. When an OE one fails, plane owners often find working used ones dirt cheap. Some of these are larger than the ones Cessna put on new planes and even though it isn't a drop in replacement it's cheaper to fair in a big used one than buy a drop in new one. It's legal if properly papered including a revised weight and balance sheet.

If someone wanted to be easily seen from above you'd mount a few (then Xenon now LED) strobes on top of the fuselage. A big Grimes beacon isn't the ideal signaling device for being seen from above.

TC has done us all a HUGE favor by tenaciously pursuing, at considerable expense, FBI FOIA requests with some interesting results. I don't think his recent fabric find came from an NB 8 but that's just me speculating based on its badly degraded condition which I wouldn't expect for buried mil spec chute gear. If his piece is from an NB 8 there should be a lot of unique metal rig pieces nearby and so far none have been found as far as I know.

His candidate still intrigues me. Rackstraw is the only one who has a history of aviation crime and he is an especially noteworthy sociopath according to a trial judge who has probably seen many hundreds.  Rackstraw's age tells me he couldn't have been DBC, but eyewitnesses often err on age. He had a grudge, a big one. He needed money. He was a qualified aviator, jumper, explosives expert and con man. I've always doubted that Norjack was DBC's first rodeo and Rackstraw has a rich deep criminal history.

I have talked to TC. He is a smart guy. No way is he going to call a burlap strip as having originated from an NB 8. The weave looks too coarse for parachute gear but I am no expert on fabrics.

377

[georger]

"Private plane with weird tail lite was circling the area during the hijacking and landed in a clearing after being in the area (practicing) for several days."

These rotating beacons are mostly mfd by Grimes. I know a bit about Grimes lights and even have a few. It's not common to see oversized Grimes beacons on Cessnas but it's not super rare either. The Cessna 182 is a common small DZ jumpship and I have seen a few of them with big Grimes lights mounted on top of the vert stabilizer. The light pattern from the Grimes beacons is aimed horizontally, designed to give the brightest flash to aircraft at or near you own altitude, which makes sense for collision avoidance. Most models can be seen from above but not nearly as well as from the side. Some have opaque caps on top. Take a look here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Brand new Grimes lights are ridiculously expensive, costing over 1000 dollars. When an OE one fails, plane owners often find working used ones dirt cheap. Some of these are larger than the ones Cessna put on new planes and even though it isn't a drop in replacement it's cheaper to fair in a big used one than buy a drop in new one. It's legal if properly papered including a revised weight and balance sheet.

If someone wanted to be easily seen from above you'd mount a few (then Xenon now LED) strobes on top of the fuselage. A big Grimes beacon isn't the ideal signaling device for being seen from above.

TC has done us all a HUGE favor by tenaciously pursuing, at considerable expense, FBI FOIA requests with some interesting results. I don't think his recent fabric find came from an NB 8 but that's just me speculating based on its badly degraded condition which I wouldn't expect for buried mil spec chute gear. If his piece is from an NB 8 there should be a lot of unique metal rig pieces nearby and so far none have been found as far as I know.

His candidate still intrigues me. Rackstraw is the only one who has a history of aviation crime and he is an especially noteworthy sociopath according to a trial judge who has probably seen many hundreds.  Rackstraw's age tells me he couldn't have been DBC, but eyewitnesses often err on age. He had a grudge, a big one. He needed money. He was a qualified aviator, jumper, explosives expert and con man. I've always doubted that Norjack was DBC's first rodeo and Rackstraw has a rich deep criminal history.

I have talked to TC. He is a smart guy. No way is he going to call a burlap strip as having originated from an NB 8. The weave looks too coarse for parachute gear but I am no expert on fabrics.

377

Interesting. You say: I have talked to TC. He is a smart guy. No way is he going to call a burlap strip as having originated from an NB 8. The weave looks too coarse for parachute gear but I am no expert on fabrics.

TC says: "Colbert said his team compared the nylon strap to a parachute like the one the skyjumper used.
"One of my former law enforcement [officers] that studied the samples said the stitching pattern appears to match," he said.

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You are saying tomatoes - TC is saying 'torontos'.