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[Bruce A. Smith]

I gather not too many people put too much stock in these recent revelations from TJC.

True?

[Shutter]

I gather not too many people put too much stock in these recent revelations from TJC.

True?

Just like everything else with this case, I guess we have to wait and see. I'm skeptic about a lot of things, so lets see what happens...

what is your take?

[MarkBennett]

The interesting thing will be how the FBI reacts to it.

If they think it's nothing, they could just ignore it.

But, if they think there is any chance Cooper money is buried where Colbert says it is, don't they at least have to have someone present at the dig site?

[andrade1812]

I gather not too many people put too much stock in these recent revelations from TJC.

True?

It's definitely the Ocean's Eleven of Cooper Escape Plans. Three airstrips? Three airplanes? How many accomplices? A precision jump in bad weather from a plane with no set route (at least, that Cooper knew about)?

That said, the guy knows how to tease.

[georger]

One problem I see is Vancouver lake was dredged and the material was placed in the lake, it's the island you now see...it's doesn't support the Tina bar find...

I have never seen any evidence or mention in FBI files, that Vancouver Lake dredging spoils was (ever) deposited on Tina Bar. Those spoils ( as you say) were used to construct an island in Vancouver Lake.

TC is now saying money at Tina Bar arrived in two distinct events. (a) The Ingram find was a recent plant deposited just weeks before 2-12-80 by a named person. The Ingrams may have been coached and pointed to the find. This plant was intended to finally convince the FBI that Cooper was dead (TC quotes Himmelsbach in this regard). (b) The Schreuder fragments of Cooper money found to three feet deep at T-Bar was from earlier (pre 1980) dredging deposits dumped on Tina Bar, from dredging work in Vancouver Lake. These fragments were from $50,000 dollars of Cooper money dropped into Vancouver Lake just after the hijacking clear back in 1971, and dumped by Cooper co-conspirators intending to convince the FBI that Cooper was dead.

After the first ploy dropped on Vancouver Lake in '71 did not convince the FBI Cooper was dead, Tom says the same conspirators decided on a second 'plant' in 1980 - all to convince the FBI to drop the case, that Cooper was dead. Tom does not explain how finding money would convince anyone Cooper was dead? And, what if the FBI was holding money from the first plant at Vancouver Lake, but saying nothing waiting for the next Cooper shoe to drop!? Tom's money theory lacks veracity. 

TC's money Theory is a complex theory in two parts occurring in 1971 and in 1980. TC presents no forensic evidence to back up his claim.   

   

[georger]

This story sounds fishy so far. Cooper and his 3 helpers take $50,000 and throw it away to form an alibi ! Wow ! That's a lot of their loot to just throw away when there are perhaps a 4 way split ! And then they bury the rest ? So they did all this for no profit and 46 years have passed ! Show me the Money !

Why wouldnt they just spread bills on the waters of Vancouver Lake for anyone to see and find, like fish from Jesus! ?  Tom says the money and other things just dropped like a rock "in the deep mud" never to be seen again except on dredging later when dredging put Cooper money but nothing else from Cooper, on to Tina Bar! Its another Miracle! 

[georger]

Let Me Get This Straight

I received the email from TJC and the attached document, from which Shutter seems to have printed out the text - thank you Shut! After reading it, I am confused by what Thomas is saying. What I gather is:

1. Tom and his Cold Case Team have received a fantastic story of how DB Cooper escaped from the skyjacking. Their sources are 2nd-hand witnesses, most notably Russ Cooper and his wife, Kristy, who got the story from old-timers in their antique plane flying club.

2. The escape story basically claims that Cooper was signaled to jump from Flight 305 when he saw an accomplice in a Cessna flying circles below him and it had a BIG RED LIGHT flashing on its tail to alert him. Then Coop jumps, walks the 1300 feet to a landing strip, gets in another plane with another accomplice and flies a zig-zaggity path to Scappoose, Oregon, passing over Vancouver Lake along the way where Danny Boy dumps 50 grand and the bomb to fool the FBI into thinking he drowned. At Scappoose, Cooper transfers into another plane with the 2nd accomplice and flies to PDX, where he gets in another plane and flies solo to California. The next day he starts writing his 4 "DB Cooper" letters and sends them to various news outlets and the FBI.

3. No one - not the original witnesses/accomplices, nor Russ and Kristy - are claiming that Bob Rackstraw is Cooper.

4. Cooper/"Rackstraw" had two accomplices and they told four other pilots, who are now the source of this story. One of the accomplices was named "Wally," and is now deceased.

5. Tom says he knows where the money and parachute are buried, but he hasn't dug it up yet. However, he has visited the site and found a parachute strap nearby.

6. Tom says he is waiting for the feds to dig up the money.

Do I have this correct?

That is essentially correct. The low flying plane is an old original story the FBI investigated, and yes one reporter reported it. We discussed this story on DZ and 'yes' Ckret did comment about it.

'Wally' plays a key role. But which 'Wally'? There are two Wally's! Im waiting to hear more back about 'Wally' ... #1 or #2? Maybe they are the same Wally? It is not 'Wally the Walrus' ! 

The activity and route of the low flying Cessna is curious. I want to hear a lot more about it.

I want to see those 302's Tom has that deal with the low flying Cessna that night. Why hasn;t Tom published those along with his pdf?

Tom's expert's analysis of the letters - writing. That also should be examined further .... 

And last but not least:  Tom is claiming once again that Cooper signed his ticket at Portland! Tom is unwilling to let that go...

[Robert99]

Having a rotating beacon like this during the 1971 rainstorm escape would have been advantageous. Bureau records state Cooper was believed to have stood on the airliner’s extended stairway for up to five minutes. A circling Cessna with such a light could have been “signaling Cooper when to jump,” theorized the original Portland FBI case investigator, Ralph P. Himmelsbach.

R99, would you agree the blinking light on the tail of a Cessna would be very hard to see from 10k feet above cloud cover?
what was the drift range they calculated for Cooper in miles? how accurate could someone jump and be within 1000 feet of the location picked?

Shutter, The blinking light on the tail of a Cessna, or even a Boeing 747, would be impossible to see from 10,000 feet through an overcast plus several other cloud layers.

Since Cooper did not have a steerable chute, and assuming he actually jumped and had a good canopy (which I personally don't believe), he was going to go wherever the wind took him.  There is no chance whatsoever that he could land within 1000 feet of a preselected point.

[Robert99]

One problem I see is Vancouver lake was dredged and the material was placed in the lake, it's the island you now see...it's doesn't support the Tina bar find...

I have never seen any evidence or mention in FBI files, that Vancouver Lake dredging spoils was (ever) deposited on Tina Bar. Those spoils ( as you say) were used to construct an island in Vancouver Lake.

TC is now saying money at Tina Bar arrived in two distinct events. (a) The Ingram find was a recent plant deposited just weeks before 2-12-80 by a named person. The Ingrams may have been coached and pointed to the find. This plant was intended to finally convince the FBI that Cooper was dead (TC quotes Himmelsbach in this regard). (b) The Schreuder fragments of Cooper money found to three feet deep at T-Bar was from earlier (pre 1980) dredging deposits dumped on Tina Bar, from dredging work in Vancouver Lake. These fragments were from $50,000 dollars of Cooper money dropped into Vancouver Lake just after the hijacking clear back in 1971, and dumped by Cooper co-conspirators intending to convince the FBI that Cooper was dead.

After the first ploy dropped on Vancouver Lake in '71 did not convince the FBI Cooper was dead, Tom says the same conspirators decided on a second 'plant' in 1980 - all to convince the FBI to drop the case, that Cooper was dead. Tom does not explain how finding money would convince anyone Cooper was dead? And, what if the FBI was holding money from the first plant at Vancouver Lake, but saying nothing waiting for the next Cooper shoe to drop!? Tom's money theory lacks veracity. 

TC's money Theory is a complex theory in two parts occurring in 1971 and in 1980. TC presents no forensic evidence to back up his claim.   

 

I think that 377 got it right several years ago when he wrote that no self-respecting criminal would ever let go of the money.  So I strongly suspect that Cooper's fingers would be blue, cold, and have a bad case of rigor mortis before any money was planted anywhere.

[georger]

Coilbert's "experts' letter analysis is bogus.

Colbert contends Cooper signed his ticket which is disputed by testimony. But let's assume he did.... just for kicks.

TC says whoever signed the ticket also wrote the Cooper letters, based on an analysis by experts.

The experts, Colbert says,  compared printed letters in the Cooper letters to letters on the Dan Cooper ticket. But,  they did not include all of the written examples of the same letter available in their comparison sampling They left out 1/3 to 1/2 of the examples available of the same letter! They chose ONLY those examples they thought came the closest to showing a positive match. That sirs, is a no-no! 

Examples are 'o', 'r', and 'd'. That is more than enough to skew their comparison and destroys all credibility of their socalled positive matches. Its a bogus comparison. You cannot pick-and-chose examples from the sample to compare! You must use all examples available in any comparison !! 

 

 

[Shutter]

The interesting thing will be how the FBI reacts to it.

If they think it's nothing, they could just ignore it.

But, if they think there is any chance Cooper money is buried where Colbert says it is, don't they at least have to have someone present at the dig site?

They need positive proof of either the chute, or money to begin to raise an eyebrow with the FBI. it appears this has been brought to there attention back in 2007 by the Cooper's involved with the story, but nobody responded to them...

"Two decades ago, Russ claims an aviator (below) discreetly told him and three other members at their local flying club the alleged escape’s details. After sharing it years later with his new cop-bride, they decided to contact the FBI in 2007. But even with her police creds and a lawyer’s help, Kristy couldn’t get a return call from either the Portland or Seattle field offices. Now with the four other club members deceased (including the storyteller), the pair are trying again to go public, this time through Thomas J. Colbert (TJC). The couple called him on 3/2/17 after hearing of the Bureau FOIA suit involving his team of 40 private investigators – led by former FBI."

[Shutter]

wasn't one of the "Wally's" the down pilot the news reporter tried to convince the FBI that could be the Amboy chute?

[georger]

wasn't one of the "Wally's" the down pilot the news reporter tried to convince the FBI that could be the Amboy chute?

We have a lot of 'Wallys' floating around. I'm beginning to see 'Wallys' on my toast! And in my Cheereos.

Are we at "Wally World" ? A free ride?  Will the kids grow up knowing more about Wally than arithmetic?

How do people come up with this stuff, and why! ?

We haven't been the same since Geoffrey Gray found a 'wally' in Seattle!

Is there a Wally in the house that knew Conan the Barbarian and flew jets? Pleaze stand up.

Three just stood up! Good grief!

[Kermit]

SHOW ME THE MONEY ! I'm actually surprised that TLC has bought into this wild tale without anything to back it up so far ! If the Money and parachute are there, we have perhaps a solve. However right now this whole story seems preposterous to me ! There seems more holes in the story than Swiss cheese !

[georger]

SHOW ME THE MONEY ! I'm actually surprised that TLC has bought into this wild tale without anything to back it up so far ! If the Money and parachute are there, we have perhaps a solve. However right now this whole story seems preposterous to me ! There seems more holes in the story than Swiss cheese !

Can you recall the year Vancouver Lake was dredged and the island in it built?