New Forum & News Updates

[MeyerLouie]

There is nothing to suggest that Amelia had any intention of going anywhere except Howland Island

 

Like the Cooper case, it has a twist...

New Book Claims Amelia Earhart Was A Spy Captured By Japan

The nonsense related to Amelia Earhart set the standard for the nonsense related to the Cooper hijacking.

Oh....so there is a connection to the DBC case...I was on my way over to the non-Cooper related window to find out more.....Meyer

[andrade1812]

Made a podcast appearance today:

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[Shutter]

Made a podcast appearance today:

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I'll check it out, I will add it to the website as well 

[Shutter]

Tom Colbert has sent me more information about FOIA files sent and are on his website....


Shutter:

Had to renumber things again (out of order), so all your members have to know -- the following two posted PDFs are new at "FBI FOIA" on DBCooper.com:

116-cv-01790 – 164-SE-81 Section 3, Part 2 (11/30/71 to 12/2/71: 268 pages)

116-cv-01790 – 164-SE-81 Section 4, Part 1 (11/30/71 to 12/3/71; 144 pages)


click here to his vault.... You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Tom requested I post this part of his email....Tom and his team are fighting tooth and nail to get files out for us all to view..

My attorney, Mark Zaid, has been rightly bitching to the DoJ/FBI about the ridiculous amount of redactions all of us are getting -- from street names, to dead people, to publicly-known subjects (i.e.: Tina and Himmelsbach). Personally, I think it's revenge for all the judge-ordered work they have to do -- at this pace, years and years worth of files!

[georger]

Already some interesting stuff....possible flare sighting from a 727, stolen station wagon on the 23 of November....

.possible flare sighting from a 727?   

where? are we talking about Janet's story?

[MeyerLouie]

Made a podcast appearance today:

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Marty, I just listened to your podcast, beginning to end.  Well done, you sound like a really nice guy, unlike some of us here.  Ha!  Probably true, but what the hell? 

I must admit, I have underestimated your commitment and knowledge of the case.  I can see you've done lots of work and research to get your book written.  And I was impressed with your "easy to understand" explanations.  Some of our discussion is anything but easy to follow.  It was real interesting, I consider it 45 minutes well spent.

You brought up a couple of things that got me thinking..... 

You talked a lot about Cooper's "family."  Aunts, uncles, cousins, even co-workers should have noticed something unusual or peculiar about some family member's weird behavior and change of routine in late 1971.  Since no family member has come forward with such information in 46 years, a logical conclusion might be this simple: he has no family.  Very possible.  I know people who don't have any family, I've seen loners, recluses, hermits stay out
 of sight for weeks, months, even years.  If they disappeared, no one would evens know -- for weeks, even months.  Most of us cannot possibly understand that, but there are people around who have no family or any connection with family. 

Even if Cooper did have family, it is not beyond the realm of possibility for Cooper to disappear in a manner that would not arouse suspicion.  I have family members who have done it.  Cooper may have disappeared legitimately weeks, even months, before 11/1971.  He could have methodically planned his disappearance/escape and no one would suspect a thing or think it unusual.  It's not really all that difficult.

The other thing is "the tie."  Tom Kaye puts a lot of importance on what he thinks he's found.  But that's Tom Kaye -- the hobbyist, amateur scientist.
 Some have said those elements could have gotten on the tie by simply working on a TV picture tube the week before the hijacking, or by going out to the dump with a .22 and standing close by when you shoot the picture tubes and watch them blow up.  Not only that, there's no evidence the tie even belonged to Cooper.  He could have picked it up from a Goodwill on his way to the airport.  Moreover, as for the tie, the chain of evidence was compromised.  The tie disappeared for several days, many FBI hands touched it, and the tie could have gone anywhere in those few days it was missing.  As much as some folks get all excited about "the tie,"  I don't --  I don't get the high, hard one when I think about it.  That's just me.  I may be wrong, it may be a very promising piece of evidence, that would be great.  But I have very little hope that we will get much from it.  To conclude from the tie evidence that Cooper worked as a middle manager in some manufacturing plant for Boeing, where pure titanium was used, is real stretch...a real big stretch.... for the reasons cited above. 

Meyer Louie

[Shutter]

The tie is a mixture of elements that are not exclusive to CRT tubes..the mixture appears to have a combination nobody has been able to unlock so far. proof of manufacturing is visible with spiral metal embedded in the tie. we also have some sort of pollen, or something to that effect on the tie that could also give location....it's a think tankers dream....

[Shutter]

Already some interesting stuff....possible flare sighting from a 727, stolen station wagon on the 23 of November....

.possible flare sighting from a 727?   

where? are we talking about Janet's story?

It's in the first new batch a little ways down from the top...this is only page one...it doesn't specify a flare, but something occurred..they are claiming it could been a "disposal can liner" from a 727, what ever that is...

The station wagon (1965) was stolen in Rosenburg Oregon, that's close to California...11/25/71

[MeyerLouie]

The tie is a mixture of elements that are not exclusive to CRT tubes..the mixture appears to have a combination nobody has been able to unlock so far. proof of manufacturing is visible with spiral metal embedded in the tie. we also have some sort of pollen, or something to that effect on the tie that could also give location....it's a think tankers dream....

That's all good and fine, but like I said, we can't even prove the tie belonged to Cooper, the chain of evidence got compromised, and Cooper may have picked it at Goodwill on his way to the airport.  As for the pollen, maybe one of the FBI agents, with the tie in his possession during those "missing days", took a roll in the alfalfa field with one of the female agents as they sang "Roll me over in the clover."  All seriousness aside, there are simply too many known unknowns, too many variables to make the tie a worthy and viable piece of evidence.

[andrade1812]

Thanks ML for the kind words. I will try to answer your questions the best I can.

You talked a lot about Cooper's "family."  Aunts, uncles, cousins, even co-workers should have noticed something unusual or peculiar about some family member's weird behavior and change of routine in late 1971.  Since no family member has come forward with such information in 46 years, a logical conclusion might be this simple: he has no family.  Very possible.  I know people who don't have any family, I've seen loners, recluses, hermits stay out
 of sight for weeks, months, even years.  If they disappeared, no one would evens know -- for weeks, even months.  Most of us cannot possibly understand that, but there are people around who have no family or any connection with family. 

Even if Cooper did have family, it is not beyond the realm of possibility for Cooper to disappear in a manner that would not arouse suspicion.  I have family members who have done it.  Cooper may have disappeared legitimately weeks, even months, before 11/1971.  He could have methodically planned his disappearance/escape and no one would suspect a thing or think it unusual.  It's not really all that difficult.

Yes, I agree it's possible... There's a few things going on: I was specifically addressing the theory that Cooper died in the jump and somehow no one missed their uncle Leo or Cousin Phil. I have looked at the profiles of middle aged men who went missing in the late 1960's and early 1970's (both unclaimed bodies and missing persons) and there is a disconnect (imho) between the people who end up on NAMus and Cooper. Even ignoring the tie evidence, Cooper had technical knowledge of the 727, aviation in general, familiarity with parachuting and was calm during the hijacking, treating the people around him with respect, showing concern for the well-being of the crew and he didn't smoke or drink to excess. Cooper's profile did not match what I found digging around NAMus, though I didn't make an exhaustive study of it.

I actually agree that Cooper probably made an attempt to disappear: In my book I suggest Cooper was Dan LeClair and that he methodically planned his disappearance, only to reappear to his daughter later. Even though I advocate for the Gunther suspect, I completely admit I could be wrong and I try to stay objective and avoid confirmation bias. I'm not sure I'm balancing objectivity with advocacy so I tread lightly. My hope is, as we approach the 50th anniversary in the case, media attention will alert people to come forward with their weird uncle story and we can finally get this thing solved. These related in particular to the tie evidence...

The other thing is "the tie."  Tom Kaye puts a lot of importance on what he thinks he's found.  But that's Tom Kaye -- the hobbyist, amateur scientist.
 Some have said those elements could have gotten on the tie by simply working on a TV picture tube the week before the hijacking, or by going out to the dump with a .22 and standing close by when you shoot the picture tubes and watch them blow up.  Not only that, there's no evidence the tie even belonged to Cooper.  He could have picked it up from a Goodwill on his way to the airport.  Moreover, as for the tie, the chain of evidence was compromised.  The tie disappeared for several days, many FBI hands touched it, and the tie could have gone anywhere in those few days it was missing.  As much as some folks get all excited about "the tie,"  I don't --  I don't get the high, hard one when I think about it.  That's just me.  I may be wrong, it may be a very promising piece of evidence, that would be great.  But I have very little hope that we will get much from it.  To conclude from the tie evidence that Cooper worked as a middle manager in some manufacturing plant for Boeing, where pure titanium was used, is real stretch...a real big stretch.... for the reasons cited above. 

Again, I agree, it's completely possible the tie was a thrift store pickup or there's some cross contamination going on. The tie evidence is only useful applied retroactively, which is what I did when I first heard about Tom Kaye's findings. I looked at every story and suspected related to Cooper looking for a connection between the tie and these previous suspects, expecting to find nothing. Turns out Gunther's guy worked in industrial chemicals (though the description of his work by Clara is not definitive). That was a major connection, and I pursued the lead from there. I make a simple probabilistic argument: what is the likelihood Gunther picked for his *fictional* suspect the very background necessary to put those exotic particles Tom Kaye found on a tie? In my mind, it's very improbable.

So, again imho, the tie evidence is the important message for the public to hear about. We need people to look into their family histories and find people who worked in the chemical industry (preferably outside the pacNW). This is where we might connect with the real Cooper. If the tie evidence is a dead-end, nothing is lost. If the tie evidence really does confirm the Gunther text like I believe, it will be the key to opening up the case if we can get the message out there.

Thanks again.

[georger]

Thanks ML for the kind words. I will try to answer your questions the best I can.

You talked a lot about Cooper's "family."  Aunts, uncles, cousins, even co-workers should have noticed something unusual or peculiar about some family member's weird behavior and change of routine in late 1971.  Since no family member has come forward with such information in 46 years, a logical conclusion might be this simple: he has no family.  Very possible.  I know people who don't have any family, I've seen loners, recluses, hermits stay out
 of sight for weeks, months, even years.  If they disappeared, no one would evens know -- for weeks, even months.  Most of us cannot possibly understand that, but there are people around who have no family or any connection with family. 

Even if Cooper did have family, it is not beyond the realm of possibility for Cooper to disappear in a manner that would not arouse suspicion.  I have family members who have done it.  Cooper may have disappeared legitimately weeks, even months, before 11/1971.  He could have methodically planned his disappearance/escape and no one would suspect a thing or think it unusual.  It's not really all that difficult.

Yes, I agree it's possible... There's a few things going on: I was specifically addressing the theory that Cooper died in the jump and somehow no one missed their uncle Leo or Cousin Phil. I have looked at the profiles of middle aged men who went missing in the late 1960's and early 1970's (both unclaimed bodies and missing persons) and there is a disconnect (imho) between the people who end up on NAMus and Cooper. Even ignoring the tie evidence, Cooper had technical knowledge of the 727, aviation in general, familiarity with parachuting and was calm during the hijacking, treating the people around him with respect, showing concern for the well-being of the crew and he didn't smoke or drink to excess. Cooper's profile did not match what I found digging around NAMus, though I didn't make an exhaustive study of it.

I actually agree that Cooper probably made an attempt to disappear: In my book I suggest Cooper was Dan LeClair and that he methodically planned his disappearance, only to reappear to his daughter later. Even though I advocate for the Gunther suspect, I completely admit I could be wrong and I try to stay objective and avoid confirmation bias. I'm not sure I'm balancing objectivity with advocacy so I tread lightly. My hope is, as we approach the 50th anniversary in the case, media attention will alert people to come forward with their weird uncle story and we can finally get this thing solved. These related in particular to the tie evidence...

The other thing is "the tie."  Tom Kaye puts a lot of importance on what he thinks he's found.  But that's Tom Kaye -- the hobbyist, amateur scientist.
 Some have said those elements could have gotten on the tie by simply working on a TV picture tube the week before the hijacking, or by going out to the dump with a .22 and standing close by when you shoot the picture tubes and watch them blow up.  Not only that, there's no evidence the tie even belonged to Cooper.  He could have picked it up from a Goodwill on his way to the airport.  Moreover, as for the tie, the chain of evidence was compromised.  The tie disappeared for several days, many FBI hands touched it, and the tie could have gone anywhere in those few days it was missing.  As much as some folks get all excited about "the tie,"  I don't --  I don't get the high, hard one when I think about it.  That's just me.  I may be wrong, it may be a very promising piece of evidence, that would be great.  But I have very little hope that we will get much from it.  To conclude from the tie evidence that Cooper worked as a middle manager in some manufacturing plant for Boeing, where pure titanium was used, is real stretch...a real big stretch.... for the reasons cited above. 

Again, I agree, it's completely possible the tie was a thrift store pickup or there's some cross contamination going on. The tie evidence is only useful applied retroactively, which is what I did when I first heard about Tom Kaye's findings. I looked at every story and suspected related to Cooper looking for a connection between the tie and these previous suspects, expecting to find nothing. Turns out Gunther's guy worked in industrial chemicals (though the description of his work by Clara is not definitive). That was a major connection, and I pursued the lead from there. I make a simple probabilistic argument: what is the likelihood Gunther picked for his *fictional* suspect the very background necessary to put those exotic particles Tom Kaye found on a tie? In my mind, it's very improbable.

So, again imho, the tie evidence is the important message for the public to hear about. We need people to look into their family histories and find people who worked in the chemical industry (preferably outside the pacNW). This is where we might connect with the real Cooper. If the tie evidence is a dead-end, nothing is lost. If the tie evidence really does confirm the Gunther text like I believe, it will be the key to opening up the case if we can get the message out there.

Thanks again.

shouldnt this all be in the SUSPECTS THREAD?

The point has already arrived where different topics are being spread across so many threads nobody will ever be able to find it all ... ! in this expanding universe of mixed up topics and posts ?

Maybe nobody cares! 

[andrade1812]

Maybe nobody cares!

I care... I swear... I really do care...

[georger]

Tom Colbert has sent me more information about FOIA files sent and are on his website....


Shutter:

Had to renumber things again (out of order), so all your members have to know -- the following two posted PDFs are new at "FBI FOIA" on DBCooper.com:

116-cv-01790 – 164-SE-81 Section 3, Part 2 (11/30/71 to 12/2/71: 268 pages)

116-cv-01790 – 164-SE-81 Section 4, Part 1 (11/30/71 to 12/3/71; 144 pages)


click here to his vault.... You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Tom requested I post this part of his email....Tom and his team are fighting tooth and nail to get files out for us all to view..

My attorney, Mark Zaid, has been rightly bitching to the DoJ/FBI about the ridiculous amount of redactions all of us are getting -- from street names, to dead people, to publicly-known subjects (i.e.: Tina and Himmelsbach). Personally, I think it's revenge for all the judge-ordered work they have to do -- at this pace, years and years worth of files!

will post this here knowing full well it is going to lost forever the minute I post it .... since nobody is keeping subjects in their proper thread but what the hell! ............................................................................ 

The new flare story occurs at Benton Airport, Redding Ca, long away from the main events back in Washington.
In contrast to the Janet story which was quashed .... THIS FLARE REPORT lead to actual investigation, possible arrests and detainment, more evidence being found on the ground near Benton Airport, and one of more stews being shown photos of the suspect, and the stews said NOT HIM.

Flare report
Stolen station wagon found in Oregon traced back to Redding CA.
Suspect identified
more debris on the ground found from this "incident"

Its all in the new pdf's starting pg 2307 - 2309.

And now that Ive totally wasted my time on the Cooper case and sent this off into oblivion ...
   
note* photo label shows location of the story in the new pdf file.... blach blah blah

[MeyerLouie]

Thanks ML for the kind words. I will try to answer your questions the best I can.

You talked a lot about Cooper's "family."  Aunts, uncles, cousins, even co-workers should have noticed something unusual or peculiar about some family member's weird behavior and change of routine in late 1971.  Since no family member has come forward with such information in 46 years, a logical conclusion might be this simple: he has no family.  Very possible.  I know people who don't have any family, I've seen loners, recluses, hermits stay out
 of sight for weeks, months, even years.  If they disappeared, no one would evens know -- for weeks, even months.  Most of us cannot possibly understand that, but there are people around who have no family or any connection with family. 

Even if Cooper did have family, it is not beyond the realm of possibility for Cooper to disappear in a manner that would not arouse suspicion.  I have family members who have done it.  Cooper may have disappeared legitimately weeks, even months, before 11/1971.  He could have methodically planned his disappearance/escape and no one would suspect a thing or think it unusual.  It's not really all that difficult.

Yes, I agree it's possible... There's a few things going on: I was specifically addressing the theory that Cooper died in the jump and somehow no one missed their uncle Leo or Cousin Phil. I have looked at the profiles of middle aged men who went missing in the late 1960's and early 1970's (both unclaimed bodies and missing persons) and there is a disconnect (imho) between the people who end up on NAMus and Cooper. Even ignoring the tie evidence, Cooper had technical knowledge of the 727, aviation in general, familiarity with parachuting and was calm during the hijacking, treating the people around him with respect, showing concern for the well-being of the crew and he didn't smoke or drink to excess. Cooper's profile did not match what I found digging around NAMus, though I didn't make an exhaustive study of it.

I actually agree that Cooper probably made an attempt to disappear: In my book I suggest Cooper was Dan LeClair and that he methodically planned his disappearance, only to reappear to his daughter later. Even though I advocate for the Gunther suspect, I completely admit I could be wrong and I try to stay objective and avoid confirmation bias. I'm not sure I'm balancing objectivity with advocacy so I tread lightly. My hope is, as we approach the 50th anniversary in the case, media attention will alert people to come forward with their weird uncle story and we can finally get this thing solved. These related in particular to the tie evidence...

The other thing is "the tie."  Tom Kaye puts a lot of importance on what he thinks he's found.  But that's Tom Kaye -- the hobbyist, amateur scientist.
 Some have said those elements could have gotten on the tie by simply working on a TV picture tube the week before the hijacking, or by going out to the dump with a .22 and standing close by when you shoot the picture tubes and watch them blow up.  Not only that, there's no evidence the tie even belonged to Cooper.  He could have picked it up from a Goodwill on his way to the airport.  Moreover, as for the tie, the chain of evidence was compromised.  The tie disappeared for several days, many FBI hands touched it, and the tie could have gone anywhere in those few days it was missing.  As much as some folks get all excited about "the tie,"  I don't --  I don't get the high, hard one when I think about it.  That's just me.  I may be wrong, it may be a very promising piece of evidence, that would be great.  But I have very little hope that we will get much from it.  To conclude from the tie evidence that Cooper worked as a middle manager in some manufacturing plant for Boeing, where pure titanium was used, is real stretch...a real big stretch.... for the reasons cited above. 

Again, I agree, it's completely possible the tie was a thrift store pickup or there's some cross contamination going on. The tie evidence is only useful applied retroactively, which is what I did when I first heard about Tom Kaye's findings. I looked at every story and suspected related to Cooper looking for a connection between the tie and these previous suspects, expecting to find nothing. Turns out Gunther's guy worked in industrial chemicals (though the description of his work by Clara is not definitive). That was a major connection, and I pursued the lead from there. I make a simple probabilistic argument: what is the likelihood Gunther picked for his *fictional* suspect the very background necessary to put those exotic particles Tom Kaye found on a tie? In my mind, it's very improbable.

So, again imho, the tie evidence is the important message for the public to hear about. We need people to look into their family histories and find people who worked in the chemical industry (preferably outside the pacNW). This is where we might connect with the real Cooper. If the tie evidence is a dead-end, nothing is lost. If the tie evidence really does confirm the Gunther text like I believe, it will be the key to opening up the case if we can get the message out there.

Thanks again.

I appreciate the clarification.  Again, great job on the Podcast.  Maybe the 50th anniversary will bring new leads, new people coming forward to give us new leads, maybe that one nugget of information we have waited for all these years.  You know, Bob Sailshaw puts a guy in the Boeing plant where titanium scrap was laying around in bins on the second floor of the plant.  What are your thoughts about Sheridan Peterson as a suspect?  Haven't heard from Bob in a while, I miss him.

[Robert99]

Tom Colbert has sent me more information about FOIA files sent and are on his website....


Shutter:

Had to renumber things again (out of order), so all your members have to know -- the following two posted PDFs are new at "FBI FOIA" on DBCooper.com:

116-cv-01790 – 164-SE-81 Section 3, Part 2 (11/30/71 to 12/2/71: 268 pages)

116-cv-01790 – 164-SE-81 Section 4, Part 1 (11/30/71 to 12/3/71; 144 pages)


click here to his vault.... You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Tom requested I post this part of his email....Tom and his team are fighting tooth and nail to get files out for us all to view..

My attorney, Mark Zaid, has been rightly bitching to the DoJ/FBI about the ridiculous amount of redactions all of us are getting -- from street names, to dead people, to publicly-known subjects (i.e.: Tina and Himmelsbach). Personally, I think it's revenge for all the judge-ordered work they have to do -- at this pace, years and years worth of files!

Shutter, is there any possibility that Tom Colbert and Mark Zaid could do some bitching to the FBI and FAA about the redactions in the Seattle ATC transcripts?  Even with two interventions by my Congressman (actually Congressperson at this time), the FBI and FAA gave me the royal run around.