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[Robert99]

Bruce,

Please refresh my memory as to who Calame and Rhodes are and what they have to do with the Cooper hijacking.

Russ Calame was the Special Agent in Charge in Salt Lake City who apprehended and arrested Richard McCoy for his Cooper-esque copycat skyjacking in 1972.

Bernie Rhodes was the federal sentencing officer in SLC who had extensive dealings with McCoy during trial, and then later wrote a book with Calame on McCoy, titled: DB Cooper - The Real McCoy.

At the time, they believed that Richard McCoy was DB Cooper doing a second skyjacking. SLC FBI agents found compelling information that McCoy was in Las Vegas during the Nov 23-25 period, suggesting that McCoy could have done the skyjacking, using Las Vegas as a go-between city to fly in and out of PDX.

When they were composing and researching their book in the 1980s, Calame and Rhodes interviewed all the principals to the DB Cooper case, in particular the four agents most responsible for evidence retrieval - Stousland, Ricks, Campbell and Somebody-I-Forget at the moment. None of the four claimed to remember the tie, and all denied retrieving the tie from Flight 305.

In addition, Calame and Rhodes say that the four agents acted as if they were under the influence of a "post hypnotic suggestion" when interviewed. Rhodes reported that the memory of other agents that he interviewed that were part of the Reno operation were also impaired for unknown reasons.

Further, all four gave wildly conflicting information on who did what in terms of evidence gathering, at one point claiming that Reno PD did the fingerprint retrieval.

Lastly, Calame interviewed Tina, who stated that she did not remember seeing the tie, as well. She also was so fuzzy in her memory and recall of events that Calame wrote that if DB Cooper was ever apprehended and taken to trial, Tina would never be called as a witness since she was so unreliable.

Lastly lastly, Calame and Rhodes write that the tie only entered the evidentiary collection in Seattle on Monday, November 29, and its whereabouts from Reno to then is unknown, indicating that the chain of custody was broken.

Bruce,

Take a look at the third paragraph on page 289 of the papers released by GG a couple of days ago.

The FBI search of the airliner started at 11:25PM, November 24, 1971, about 30 minutes after the flight crew deplaned.  The tie and clasp were found almost immediately on seat 18E, which is where Cooper was seated most of the time.  This FBI Form 302, which was dictated on November 26th (Friday), was signed by SA Frances J. Schmidt, SA Marvin T. Bell, SA Harold E. Newpher, and SA Norman M. Stone.  They are the agents that Calame and Rhodes should have talked to, but apparently didn't. 

The tie and clasp, according to other information in those papers, was moved to Las Vegas and that office investigated it along with some other items found on the plane.

Calame and Rhodes had a motive to discount any other suspects in order to bolster the credibility of their own book.  Characterizing all the agents and witness who were involved in the Cooper hijacking as slobbering incompetents who should be completely dismissed would bolster their book about McCoy.   

[Bruce A. Smith]

I've spoken to Russ, and I've seen him in videos several times being interviewed. To characterize him or the people he investigated as "slobbering incompetents" is incorrect in my view and demeaning to all, unnecessarily.

To also suggest that he and Bernie are merely trying to sell books is incorrect, imo.

For character witnesses, I've spoken with Nick O'Hara, the guy who shot and killed McCoy in Virginia Beach. He is a solid G-man in my opinion, and trusts Bernie well enough to spend time with him in St Petersburg, Florida every February. O'Hara has also indicated to me that many in the Bureau support Calame's findings on McCoy, especially in the SLC area.

Nevertheless, it would seem important to also interview the other agents involved, such as those named in the file: Schmidt, Bell, Newpher, and Stone. Why Calame and Rhodes didn't, and why they were not mentioned in the book needs to be clarified.

[Bruce A. Smith]

John Detlor

Bill Rollins has uncovered some important documents on SA John Detlor. John has been in all the important docus on Norjak, and the link below is to a very informative interview he gave to a fellow G-Man for the Society of Former Special Agents of the FBI.

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There is a brief section that discusses Detlor's work on Norjak. Apparently Detlor and a second agent, Don Steele, were the right-hand guys to Charlie Farrell, the case agent. I didn't know that.

Detlor entered the FBI in 1964 and served to 1989. After retirement he became the head of security for COSTCO, based in Seattle and nearby Kirkland, WA.

[Robert99]

I've spoken to Russ, and I've seen him in videos several times being interviewed. To characterize him or the people he investigated as "slobbering incompetents" is incorrect in my view and demeaning to all, unnecessarily.

To also suggest that he and Bernie are merely trying to sell books is incorrect, imo.

For character witnesses, I've spoken with Nick O'Hara, the guy who shot and killed McCoy in Virginia Beach. He is a solid G-man in my opinion, and trusts Bernie well enough to spend time with him in St Petersburg, Florida every February. O'Hara has also indicated to me that many in the Bureau support Calame's findings on McCoy, especially in the SLC area.

Nevertheless, it would seem important to also interview the other agents involved, such as those named in the file: Schmidt, Bell, Newpher, and Stone. Why Calame and Rhodes didn't, and why they were not mentioned in the book needs to be clarified.

Bruce,

I did not call Russ any names, I only pointed out that he was apparently trying to discredit EVER FBI agent and witness that had actually been involved in the Cooper investigation.

[Bruce A. Smith]

Okay, we'll use your wording.

So, then, why do you think that the former SAC of the Salt Lake City FO would act to discredit four special agents and Tina Mucklow?

You've offered one option - the motivation to increase book sales.

Any others?

Also, do you think there is any validity to their commentary?

Lastly, do you think you'll ever read Calame and Rhodes' book? Just askin'...

[Shutter]

Okay, we'll use your wording.

So, then, why do you think that the former SAC of the Salt Lake City FO would act to discredit four special agents and Tina Mucklow?

You've offered one option - the motivation to increase book sales.

Any others?

Also, do you think there is any validity to their commentary?

Lastly, do you think you'll ever read Calame and Rhodes' book? Just askin'...

When they have another suspect in mind, it tends to bend there way to try and push there agenda? they also believe McCoy is Cooper, right? do you follow that path as well?

[Robert99]

Okay, we'll use your wording.

So, then, why do you think that the former SAC of the Salt Lake City FO would act to discredit four special agents and Tina Mucklow?

You've offered one option - the motivation to increase book sales.

Any others?

Also, do you think there is any validity to their commentary?

Lastly, do you think you'll ever read Calame and Rhodes' book? Just askin'...

When they have another suspect in mind, it tends to bend there way to try and push there agenda? they also believe McCoy is Cooper, right? do you follow that path as well?

Bruce,

As has already been pointed out, Calame and Rhodes had a financial incentive for dissing the Cooper FBI agents and Tina.  You yourself have stated on this thread and DZ that Tina was essentially a basket case emotionally.  I don't know what condition the Cooper FBI agents are in today, but Tina seems to be in great shape based on her recent TV appearance.

I have not read Calame and Rhodes book and do not have any plans to do so.  I also do not think that McCoy was Cooper based on other factors.

[georger]

Okay, we'll use your wording.

So, then, why do you think that the former SAC of the Salt Lake City FO would act to discredit four special agents and Tina Mucklow?

You've offered one option - the motivation to increase book sales.

Any others?

Also, do you think there is any validity to their commentary?

Lastly, do you think you'll ever read Calame and Rhodes' book? Just askin'...

When they have another suspect in mind, it tends to bend there way to try and push there agenda? they also believe McCoy is Cooper, right? do you follow that path as well?

Bruce,

As has already been pointed out, Calame and Rhodes had a financial incentive for dissing the Cooper FBI agents and Tina.  You yourself have stated on this thread and DZ that Tina was essentially a basket case emotionally.  I don't know what condition the Cooper FBI agents are in today, but Tina seems to be in great shape based on her recent TV appearance.

I have not read Calame and Rhodes book and do not have any plans to do so.  I also do not think that McCoy was Cooper based on other factors.

Like Blevins, Smith will never recant his former reporting, simply lay on a new layer and go forth unrepentent.

These book writers have an agenda once the book writing process has begun. This isnt science - its social work! 

It is useless to try and get Bruce Smith to back up on anything.   

[Bruce A. Smith]

I do not believe that McCoy was DB Cooper.

That said, I do not dismiss what Calame and Rhodes say about the FBI, Tina, Las Vegas and all their other findings. I just hold it in abeyance, as a possibility that needs consideration - and knowing that it may explain some of the perplexities of the case such as Tina's 30-year silence and her stay in a long-term care facility, circa 1979.

As for Tina, yes - her performance on the HC docu suggests that her cognitive abilities are intact and she is fit as a fiddle. But that doesn't mean that she was A-OK in the 1970s, and there are multiple sources that say she wasn't, such as Bill Rataczak and Richard Tosaw. Again, I hold both realities in abeyance, pondering as more information comes in.

[georger]

I do not believe that McCoy was DB Cooper.

That said, I do not dismiss what Calame and Rhodes say about the FBI, Tina, Las Vegas and all their other findings. I just hold it in abeyance, as a possibility that needs consideration - and knowing that it may explain some of the perplexities of the case such as Tina's 30-year silence and her stay in a long-term care facility, circa 1979.

As for Tina, yes - her performance on the HC docu suggests that her cognitive abilities are intact and she is fit as a fiddle. But that doesn't mean that she was A-OK in the 1970s, and there are multiple sources that say she wasn't, such as Bill Rataczak and Richard Tosaw. Again, I hold both realities in abeyance, pondering as more information comes in.

Save your breath. You missed vital context, diss-missed vital context .... game over. Now go edit the edit on the revised revision of your Good Bookh. Then you can enter the Cooper Hall of Fame! 

[Shutter]

That said, I do not dismiss what Calame and Rhodes say about the FBI

But, you dismiss there theory about McCoy, and are they the one's who started the medallion rumor? where did that story come from, it's in there book isn't it? to prove that they need to discredit others, no?

Can one be selective when it comes to credibility? Carr states if you start to dismiss parts of things people say, you may have to discredit all, you can't have it both ways.

[georger]

Am I the only one who finds this release of FBI docs by Saint Gray, just a little bit fishy? True.Ink Special Ops?

Like pickled Jimmy Hoffa in a little blue bottle, sold for $9.95 at Woolworths in Havana!

Or maybe Einstein's brain in a box revealed at True.Ink. ?

[Bruce A. Smith]

That said, I do not dismiss what Calame and Rhodes say about the FBI

But, you dismiss there theory about McCoy, and are they the one's who started the medallion rumor? where did that story come from, it's in there book isn't it? to prove that they need to discredit others, no?

Can one be selective when it comes to credibility? Carr states if you start to dismiss parts of things people say, you may have to discredit all, you can't have it both ways.

I do not live, or write, in a world of black and white - I live in a world of gray. Yes, I do think that Calame and Rhodes are incorrect in declaring McCoy to be Cooper. But I do accept other aspects of their findings, such as the gas receipts from Las Vegas, and the collect phone call to Provo on Thanksgiving Day evening. The tougher part is what do these pieces of evidence mean?

Then add in the Reno stuff, with post-hypnotic suggestions and fuzzy memories. It is certainly an outlier, but are Calame and Rhodes actually lying? I think not. But the Whole Enchilada is quite messy, especially since not all of their findings are spelled out completely, such as the $8,000 that miraculously popped up in McCoy's checking account after T-Day 1971.

That's why I spend two chapters discussing their findings, with related information from other sources leading me to speculate that McCoy might have been involved in Norjak in some way, such as a ground man.

[Bruce A. Smith]

Am I the only one who finds this release of FBI docs by Saint Gray, just a little bit fishy? True.Ink Special Ops?

No, you're not the only one. Now, please excuse me, as I have a lot more reading to do....

[georger]

Am I the only one who finds this release of FBI docs by Saint Gray, just a little bit fishy? True.Ink Special Ops?

No, you're not the only one. Now, please excuse me, as I have a lot more reading to do....

Allow me to help - 
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Both hair specimens presumably male although that is not specified meaning what? No cellular or medullar stain tests were done?  Permanently mounted on a slide (no future access to the hair)? Protocols for basic hair analysis at the time were?