New Forum & News Updates

[Shutter]

Bob Knoss is trying to join this forum  his membership just came in...

Dear Bob, similar to the other "bobby" we just don't have room for fabrication. feel free to stop by Roberts site, and join up there. it's my understanding nobody comments there except the admin, so you should be rather valuable over there. that's the land of myths, and deception..a proven fact! Mr. Knoss was another reason things always went sour on the DZ...

"I believe you deserve each other"

[georger]

Here's a truer account of what's really going on at the former Ariel Store & Tavern. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

In addition anyone notice the recent copy of Bruce's Mountain News website logo Mr. Blevins is now using for his logo at Adventure Books? See below. Some people are just shameless copy cats ... at:  You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

 

[Shutter]

I wonder if someone threw Bruce into the Columbia

[Bruce A. Smith]

Report from Ariel

The Ariel Store BBQ was held on Saturday, Aug 27, and the Travel Channel people were there to film it. I know few details of what was going on because of concerns over the ongoing behavior of RMB, who insisted that I was persona non grata even though I had two written invitations from Bryan Woodruff to the shin-dig. As a result, I will continue to encourage Meyer to share his views here.

But I did drive by and observe from a distance for about an hour. When I first arrived, there were about forty people sitting outside, mostly in a clearing on the east side of the Store. They looked bored and nothing obvious was going on. It was like the end of a backyard graduation party for your sister.

Most of the participants looked like Ariel folks, meaning they were a smattering of ZZ Top look-alikes, bikers, and hard-living rural Americana types. I didn't see many people wearing Land's End casual wear, if you catch my drift. But there were some of these folks who came and went. One family came just to see Josh the TC star in action, and couldn't have cared less about DB Cooper.

That was a major difference that I saw at Ariel, compared with the November party - which is filled with lots of Cooper people, like the Formans, who like a good party, good music, and good conversation about DBC. This crowd fills the store and the place is packed. The band is always great and it is the Social Highlight of My Year.

By contrast, the "Deliverance" crowd is mostly out on the street, in the rain and dark talking shit and drinking beer. This group can get scary and one year I left early because I was, well not scared, but uncomfortable. Nowadays, with the clamor for open carry and the fact that one-third of all white men in Washington have "concealed carry permits," it is likely that a lot of people are packin'. And drinkin'. Sweet, eh?

It gives new meaning to the actions of RMB, who alerted the Auburn Police Department a couple of years ago and told them that the local festival had received bomb threats and I was the chief suspect.

But back to the BBQ. Around 6 pm a band cranked up and played instrumentals. It sounded like your sister's boyfriend's band playing for her graduation. Not bad, but at best it was a bar band.

The BBQ actually shut down at 4 pm, I was told, due to health department restrictions on food service. I saw no beer, but clearly some participants had brought their own.

Compared to the November parties, it was a pale second-place. No energy, no excitement, little fun - but lots of parking!

The summertime celebration has one major - and unexpected - impediment: traffic flow on the street outside the Store. The park at Merwin Dam was humming, with three times the number of cars parked than at the BBQ, and traffic was a constant issue as the park people entered or exited the area while BBQ people spilled out of the party and walked into the street. This is not an issue in November, and this dynamic severely limits how much space the Cooperites have to party.

At the BBQ, the Store was closed, and I saw no one enter the building. Not sure where the bathrooms were.

Of note: there was an outdoor merchandise tent selling "T" shirts and hats, and probably lots of other Ariel and DB Cooper memorabilia, including Frisbees. This was a recent addition that Dona had embraced over the past few years. I have an Ariel Frisbee, and I wore my 40th Anniversary "T" to the Sunday gig with the TC. More on this to follow.

Lastly, Bryan accepted my raffle donation of two copies of DB Cooper and the FBI, according to Meyer who delivered them. I didn't get  a thanks, but hey, at least no one popped off a round in my direction.

[377]

Bruce wrote: By contrast, the "Deliverance" crowd is mostly out on the street, in the rain and dark talking shit and drinking beer. This group can get scary and one year I left early because I was, well not scared, but uncomfortable. Nowadays, with the clamor for open carry and the fact that one-third of all white men in Washington have "concealed carry permits," it is likely that a lot of people are packin'. And drinkin'. Sweet, eh?

I sure wish the rancor would dissipate. Sigh...

But your outsider critique of the BBQ was funny. "ZZ Top crowd".

I would expect that the types  you described Bruce would go a long way for free BBQ. I am surprised there was a lot of room in the parking lot.

And I'll bet that mediocre band was just warming up. It amazing how much better the musicians play after a listener gets intoxicated.

I hope the Ariel Store survives and thrives. I think Blevins was doing his best to help that happen.

377

[377]

Bob Knoss is trying to join this forum  his membership just came in...

Dear Bob, similar to the other "bobby" we just don't have room for fabrication. feel free to stop by Roberts site, and join up there. it's my understanding nobody comments there except the admin, so you should be rather valuable over there. that's the land of myths, and deception..a proven fact! Mr. Knoss was another reason things always went sour on the DZ...

"I believe you deserve each other"

My free speech pitch again: Put all these forum rejects, even Bob Knoss, in a segregated playpen here. This could be a one stop all inclusive site. I know the answer Shutter and I do understand your reasons.

377

[georger]

Report from Ariel

The Ariel Store BBQ was held on Saturday, Aug 27, and the Travel Channel people were there to film it. I know few details of what was going on because of concerns over the ongoing behavior of RMB, who insisted that I was persona non grata even though I had two written invitations from Bryan Woodruff to the shin-dig. As a result, I will continue to encourage Meyer to share his views here.

But I did drive by and observe from a distance for about an hour. When I first arrived, there were about forty people sitting outside, mostly in a clearing on the east side of the Store. They looked bored and nothing obvious was going on. It was like the end of a backyard graduation party for your sister.

Most of the participants looked like Ariel folks, meaning they were a smattering of ZZ Top look-alikes, bikers, and hard-living rural Americana types. I didn't see many people wearing Land's End casual wear, if you catch my drift. But there were some of these folks who came and went. One family came just to see Josh the TC star in action, and couldn't have cared less about DB Cooper.

That was a major difference that I saw at Ariel, compared with the November party - which is filled with lots of Cooper people, like the Formans, who like a good party, good music, and good conversation about DBC. This crowd fills the store and the place is packed. The band is always great and it is the Social Highlight of My Year.

By contrast, the "Deliverance" crowd is mostly out on the street, in the rain and dark talking shit and drinking beer. This group can get scary and one year I left early because I was, well not scared, but uncomfortable. Nowadays, with the clamor for open carry and the fact that one-third of all white men in Washington have "concealed carry permits," it is likely that a lot of people are packin'. And drinkin'. Sweet, eh?

It gives new meaning to the actions of RMB, who alerted the Auburn Police Department a couple of years ago and told them that the local festival had received bomb threats and I was the chief suspect.

But back to the BBQ. Around 6 pm a band cranked up and played instrumentals. It sounded like your sister's boyfriend's band playing for her graduation. Not bad, but at best it was a bar band.

The BBQ actually shut down at 4 pm, I was told, due to health department restrictions on food service. I saw no beer, but clearly some participants had brought their own.

Compared to the November parties, it was a pale second-place. No energy, no excitement, little fun - but lots of parking!

The summertime celebration has one major - and unexpected - impediment: traffic flow on the street outside the Store. The park at Merwin Dam was humming, with three times the number of cars parked than at the BBQ, and traffic was a constant issue as the park people entered or exited the area while BBQ people spilled out of the party and walked into the street. This is not an issue in November, and this dynamic severely limits how much space the Cooperites have to party.

At the BBQ, the Store was closed, and I saw no one enter the building. Not sure where the bathrooms were.

Of note: there was an outdoor merchandise tent selling "T" shirts and hats, and probably lots of other Ariel and DB Cooper memorabilia, including Frisbees. This was a recent addition that Dona had embraced over the past few years. I have an Ariel Frisbee, and I wore my 40th Anniversary "T" to the Sunday gig with the TC. More on this to follow.

Lastly, Bryan accepted my raffle donation of two copies of DB Cooper and the FBI, according to Meyer who delivered them. I didn't get  a thanks, but hey, at least no one popped off a round in my direction.

I also have firsthand reports from seven people, five of whom live in this area. It was a "figment of its former self" one remarked. "A bunch of unsavory types outside. I went in and it was the same. Scary. I noticed one biker guy was packing (armed). The mood was sour so I turned around and left". "We have heard nothing today at the Post Office about this and didnt know it happened. I thought this happens in November?" "Looked like a small gang of Woodruff's friends so we didn't stop as we drove by. Nothing was happening. The real crowd was down at the dam and I didnt see any of those people stopping at the BBQ", says another. "A thousand people? No (laughing). Where did you get that? Maybe there were ten people there that I saw?" says another. "I saw a few biker types up there and they looked bored and pissed so we didn't risk going up there", says another.

The "one thousand expected" according to Blevins advertising? No. Bruce's estimate total is more accurate, according to people I talked with today.

But, Blevins says we are "Idiots" and "Low Lifes". He says his friends here (who are informing on us) are: Meyer Louis, 377, and Tom Kaye! 

Promises promises promises. Blevins has yet to deliver ON ANYTHING HE SAYS!   

I wasn't aware Meyer Louis was even here/ Is he?   

[georger]

Bruce wrote: By contrast, the "Deliverance" crowd is mostly out on the street, in the rain and dark talking shit and drinking beer. This group can get scary and one year I left early because I was, well not scared, but uncomfortable. Nowadays, with the clamor for open carry and the fact that one-third of all white men in Washington have "concealed carry permits," it is likely that a lot of people are packin'. And drinkin'. Sweet, eh?

I sure wish the rancor would dissipate. Sigh...

But your outsider critique of the BBQ was funny. "ZZ Top crowd".

I would expect that the types  you described Bruce would go a long way for free BBQ. I am surprised there was a lot of room in the parking lot.

And I'll bet that mediocre band was just warming up. It amazing how much better the musicians play after a listener gets intoxicated.

I hope the Ariel Store survives and thrives. I think Blevins was doing his best to help that happen.

377

Have you got any "actual applicable facts" to share?   

[edit] One email I got today from somebody who knows Blevins and the situation at the Ariel Store explains that what Blevins and Woodruff want is a "Cooper museum" at the Ariel Store, something that would rival the WSHM and "give Blevins a permanent hand in the Cooper legacy" for years to come. This email explains that aside from the fact the Ariel Store served a role in the Cooper case in former times (before the current owner or Blevins), the store sits in a strategic location in terms of the thousands of yearly visitors to the Merwin Dam just down the road from the Ariel Store at Ariel. You have to drive by the store to get to the dam.

Who knows what will happen. Only time will tell.   

[georger]

There is other news about people's visit to Tina Bar, but I am going to defer to others to post about this, as they see fit, when they think its appropriate. 

I had a long productive conservation today ... so will defer to that person and/or others ... as they see fit. Thanks guys!

[Shutter]

My free speech pitch again

What does freedom of speech have to do with this? Knoss is disruptive, and deceptive. nothing productive can come from him.

This is similar to a merchant. "we have the right to refuse service"

Robert was well aware he wasn't welcome when this forum started, his little stunt landed him in trouble. he did it all by himself. the DZ was a nightmare to try and get anything done on that forum due to his behavior, and a few others.

Robert will twist things around to fit his agenda. he must of been upset about the weekend because he lashed out calling people from this forum "lowlifes" & "backstabbers". it's my understanding he removed the comment, or post, but I have it  the screenshot was sent to me. this is the person you wish to have a playpen for?

I hope Bryan gets his head on straight, this is not doing anyone any good! Ariel was always in the background, but nothing bad was ever spoken of about that town.

Robert will read this and state the "hatred" BS like he always does. these are just facts being pointed out, it has nothing to do with hatred!

[Bruce A. Smith]

In some ways the Mountain News functions as a pressure relief valve for this site. Blevins posts freely there, as does good Ole Shut, who likes to sling the shit freely with Bobby. Anyone who misses the action at the DZ can come feast at the MN.

BK is also welcome to post as long as he follows the general rules of etiquette at the MN, which is: no threats, no excessive F-Bombing, and no punitive or revengeful commentaries.

True, many posters are borderline; but if I can tolerate Bob Rackstraw, Bob Blevins and their acolytes and minions, what's not to love?

I say: let's keep this Forum as is. Keep Blevins out until he learns how to respect people. The same with BK, Jo and the other DB whackos we all know and love. This site is an oasis of research and speculation when one is sorely needed. This is a place to discuss, learn and share. It is not a place to rant or dump shit only because some posters have personal needs and can't control themselves. Not everyone has earned the right to drink in public.

Remember, the Mountain News is an online news magazine, and we have a different kind of reader than the DBC Forum, and they have different needs. So far an open slosh of comments and ideas works, and the occasional Cooper Crazy hasn't swamped HMS Mount Newsie.

Toot-toot!

[georger]

My free speech pitch again

What does freedom of speech have to do with this? Knoss is disruptive, and deceptive. nothing productive can come from him.

This is similar to a merchant. "we have the right to refuse service"

Robert was well aware he wasn't welcome when this forum started, his little stunt landed him in trouble. he did it all by himself. the DZ was a nightmare to try and get anything done on that forum due to his behavior, and a few others.

Robert will twist things around to fit his agenda. he must of been upset about the weekend because he lashed out calling people from this forum "lowlifes" & "backstabbers". it's my understanding he removed the comment, or post, but I have it  the screenshot was sent to me. this is the person you wish to have a playpen for?

I hope Bryan gets his head on straight, this is not doing anyone any good! Ariel was always in the background, but nothing bad was ever spoken of about that town.

Robert will read this and state the "hatred" BS like he always does. these are just facts being pointed out, it has nothing to do with hatred!

On the other side of the coin:  could a Cooper Museum at Ariel succeed? Everyone Ive spoken with thinks Ariel might have some potential housing a museum of some kind because of the large volume of traffic that passes through Ariel then just past the store you turn (right?) and go down a steep hill to the dam area, which is a real tourist attraction.

One resident commented to me: "we can't have these biker types out in the street blocking the street at the store with people trying to get by safely going to and from the dam. Party or no party, the store is apparently in a strategic position with respect to traffic passing through and there are concerns about safety and comfort of tourists exposed to people at the store. The area does not wish to lose its tourist traffic visiting the dam. That is an important area economic resource. I heard concern over that issue expressed many times today including by two officials familiar with the store and the situation there. My impression today is officials in this area are well aware of the areas' needs, pro and con, and plan to act in the public interest in any event. 

Is there anyone  who might run a museum at the Ariel Store who really is an expert on the Cooper case? When I hear someone comparing the Ariel Store with the Washington State Historical Museum, I take a deep breath because I just don't see how the two compare at all!    Different people have different visions of reality, I guess.

And let's back up and realise, we wouldn't be talking about any of this unless it had been foisted upon us from the outside. None of us invented this problem! We wouldn't be discussing any of this unless it had become an issue all on it's own. Prior to this year the Ariel store and its owners have never been anything but an item of community interest and an 'asset', frankly. The sudden change this year is not of our making in any way, shape, or form. And none this has anything to do with the Cooper case which is 'why' we are gathered here. We've been given an opportunity by the site owner. Let's don't spoil it or take advantage of it. That's my opinion and commitment.


 

[MarkBennett]

On the other side of the coin:  could a Cooper Museum at Ariel succeed? Everyone Ive spoken with thinks Ariel might have some potential housing a museum of some kind because of the large volume of traffic that passes through Ariel then just past the store you turn (right?) and go down a steep hill to the dam area, which is a real tourist attraction.

It's not quite that easy to find.  You turn right off the main road and go down the hill to get to the Ariel Tavern.  Just past the tavern, the road turns to dirt and I believe that goes toward the dam (although, I've never gone past the tavern to say for sure).

The first time I went there, I missed it.   There is a sign, and you'll see if it you're looking for it, but not impossible to miss.

That being said, places can be advertised and found.  Wall Drugs in South Dakota is advertised with road signs hundreds of miles away.

[georger]

On the other side of the coin:  could a Cooper Museum at Ariel succeed? Everyone Ive spoken with thinks Ariel might have some potential housing a museum of some kind because of the large volume of traffic that passes through Ariel then just past the store you turn (right?) and go down a steep hill to the dam area, which is a real tourist attraction.

It's not quite that easy to find.  You turn right off the main road and go down the hill to get to the Ariel Tavern.  Just past the tavern, the road turns to dirt and I believe that goes toward the dam (although, I've never gone past the tavern to say for sure).

The first time I went there, I missed it.   There is a sign, and you'll see if it you're looking for it, but not impossible to miss.

That being said, places can be advertised and found.  Wall Drugs in South Dakota is advertised with road signs hundreds of miles away.

I remember as a kid we used to take summer trips - you would go for miles and see Burma Shave signs, we used to count them and look for them - then in the South West you would see similar signs stretched out for miles - Geronimo 50 miles! - Indian Arrow Heads 20 miles - and you would go for 200 miles and still not come upon Geronimo or the Indian Arrow Heads - then suddenly out of nowhere there would be one lone teepee sitting in the middle of nowhere and Mom would pull over - the stuff inside you could get at Woolworths in any town in the area. What a disappointment ! (laughing).

I just dont see the Ariel Store ever becoming equal to Mount Rushmore or Yellowstone Park! 

Bring back the Burma Shave signs! 

"Volunteers! Help! Set Up the Largest 'DB Cooper' Party Ever!" "Be there or be square!"

[Bruce A. Smith]

... Prior to this year the Ariel store and its owners have never been anything but an item of community interest and an 'asset', frankly. The sudden change this year is not of our making in any way, shape, or form. And none this has anything to do with the Cooper case, which is 'why' we are gathered here....

Cooper World is changing, in my view, and certain interests are "planting their flag," to claim turf - real and metaphorically - in Cooper World. Blevins wants Ariel, the store, a museum and Bryan Woodruff. He's got them, too, as far as I can tell. He's won that battle, and it will re-enforced by the Brad Meltzer docu on Kenny.

Colbert has his turf fight over Rackstraw, Astoria, Corvallis and 3 hours on the History Channel that will be syndicated into infinity.

But our opportunity here, as I see it, is to continue on the higher ground - to use our brains and sweat to explore the DB Cooper saga in an objective and sound manner. We will attract allies along the way, such as the Travel Channel, who will help tell our story. Others will appear in the days to come, probably from out of the blue - just like in 1980 when an 8-year old kid found the ONLY incontrovertible proof in Norjak, and all while he was cooking hot dogs at the beach.

I predict that we who hold to his vision will gain numbers and credibility, and others like Bobby, will fade away over time.

The FBI's closing the case may be an asset to us, because no one now will ever expect them to do anything to help us. That gives us free rein to think outside of the box, to be imaginative, and choose who and what we deem a valid piece of evidence. Hence, our work will be less subject to doubt that the FBI is quietly sandbagging an investigation, such as with Geoffrey and the Marla hoopla that followed.

We can ask among ourselves very troubling questions, such as: Is every crew member lying? Is Rataczak really that stupid that every time reporters asks him where 305 was, he tells a different story? Or is that dementia or age? What if Rataczak and Tina are spinning stories for some yet to be discovered agenda? Were they ordered to appear on the HC docu? Is Allison Berg's nice, really that nice, or did LMNO have a TON o' leverage to get them in front of their cameras?

There is a huge pile of money to be made in Cooper World, and Bobby is clearly cashing in and Colbert's not far behind.

This is really an age-old question: does truth win out in the end? Does fairness still stand when all the dust has settled? Or will the jealousies of Blevins and the fame hunger of Colbert conquer? Will the "star-making machinery" of Hollywood crush us?

I say, "No." We who trust the elegance of ideas, and passionately strive to champion true criminal justice will carry the day in the end.

Our battleground is at this Forum. It's in YouTube, the Mountain News and others places where truth is honored and expressed.

I may be broke, but I ain't down and out. Not by a long shot.