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[Shutter]

The discussion of the crew notes didn't go over as well as I thought they would...

Could you please elaborate?

It didn't seem to spark a lot of conversation, and questions.

Perhaps not yet, but they do contain very valuable information.  A lot of color in that pan.  Many thanks for the effort to acquire and post them, and again for directing me toward them.

No problem. glad they are of help...

[georger]

Im not sure there was an effort to claim 'total order'? For example, didn't Larry admit that people were up and moving around, using the head, etc early in the flight even after the crew was aware of the note? With Tina/Flo sitting beside Cooper. B. Simmons got up and went to the head - Cooper glared at him coming and going. Back in his seat Simmons looked back. Several others got up and used the head. Mitchell was sitting right across the isle wondering why the 'old man' was getting all the attention. Didn't Larry confirm all of this?

Once landed, I think the guy you keep calling an FBI cowboy was the FAA guy who came on board and wanted to talk to Cooper? Cooper rejected that. People had to witnesses Tina coming and going ... and that was anything but smooth (except for being an Academy Award performance!) Tina should have been given an Oscar in 71!     

I'll have to check on what Larry said and didn't say. My memory of Ckret's commentaries are hazy, and the Larry "log" developed by the WSHM (?) on his postings are helpful but I've found it incomplete. Perhaps we could establish one here, Shut? Gather all of the Ckret material from the DZ and put it under one roof?

For me, the more important issue is how much moving around by the passengers was actually going on? My previous understanding of the situation was that the passengers were moved forward once the crew settled down in the cockpit - about 20 minutes into the flight, and no one used the rear lav afterwards. That's not what I'm hearing these days, especially from Michael Cooper and Larry Finegold, and it supports what Jack Almstad told me several years back. By the way, I believe that Jack has passed away. His old phone number in Livermore, CA is disconnected, and there is no number listed for his wife Joyce posted in the state of California.

A minor point, "B." Simmons, would be Barbara Simmons, but I believe it was her husband "R." (Richard) who made the claim that Cooper stared at him during a potty run. Sluggo and I talked about this a bit, and Slug felt strongly that Richard was fabricating much of his story since he did not present himself to the FBI at the debrief as one of folks who had a good look at the hijacker or had any kind of encounter or interaction with him. Only five passengers self-identified themselves as being in that category: Mitchell, Labissioniere, House, Gregory, and Zrem-Spreckel.

Adding more confusion, in my mind, the Simmons were sitting in First Class, according to Geoffrey Gray, so why would they hike all the way back to the rear of the plane to pee?

Along those lines, still unresolved for me is where Robert Gregory was sitting. In Tacoma, GG showed FBI docs say 18C, but Himms says that D Cooper was in 18C. Further, Bill Mitchell says his school books were in 18C, his parka in 18 A, and his sleepy-little ass was in 18 B.

As Bill has clammed up on me, and hasn't really talked to any journalists (except for our one brief chat), I'm beginning to mistrust his statements. His description of Cooper as a "geeky" mess with a "turkey gobble" dangling down his neck seems more of a revisionist point of view that is emerging more these days - and I suspect the FBI is behind it - trying to color DB Cooper as more of a "schlub." Geoffrey Gray has begun using that exact term in media interviews these days when he describes DB Cooper, and this contrasts strongly with Tina's characterizations of the skyjacker as a gentlemen, and the many passenger accounts in the newspapers that also say he was a quiet, well-dressed gentleman.

Lastly, G-Man-Johnny is a character put on the plane by Larry Finegold. Larry says he knew the guy who entered the plane when the door opened by name, and he knew he was an FBI agent since they had worked together on cases. Further, Larry says that the FBI guy told him there was a hijacker on board. I ain't making this stuff up. I'm just reporting what one guy- Larry - said. Yes, it's not corroborated by anyone else, yet, but Larry Finegold was the US ADA, so I give his statements a lot of credibility. File this under: "To Be Continued."

That's right - I forgot about Finegold, he is your source. That means the FAA was one more who came aboard. I will check the source for that tonight.

I know about the Simmons story - Ckret didn't buy it. Larry said nothing like that in Simmon's interviews. Simmons gave this report to a reporter later. The tracks are all on DZ.

You will have email later tonight.

   

[georger]

People have a right to an opinion on anything discussed on a public forum. Robert takes things out of context (huge history of this) and gives false impressions of things.

I decided not to get involved with the whole Ariel issue mainly because Robert has attached himself to it. now, the peaceful town has censorship involved with it. he's spending a lot of time spewing hatred about this forum. I don't see once this really gets out how it will help there cause?

The Tavern was never really a profitable business. it's my understanding it wasn't really a store, or a bar. it could possibly end up being public funded year round? who is paying the bills for the off Cooper times? I hope Bryan can pull this off.

In my opinion, these people are aware of issues at hand. That includes economic sustainability. A new generation is now in charge for whatever they can accomplish. The whole county is looking for economic development, post Mt. St Helens (as one official remarked to me). There is an acknowledgement that the area needs development.

Very clearly, Mr. Blevins saw an opportunity and he seized it. Had his meeting on April 9th at Ariel been advertised more widely there might have been wider input! The plan outlined on Blevins' website is:

After a meeting on April 9th, 2016 with both Woodruff and residents of the Ariel area at the store itself, some basics were agreed on, and we have moved forward with a comprehensive plan to help get the job done.

1) It was decided that Mr Woodruff would handle the arrangement of any repairs or corrections required by the county, while Adventure Books would run two fundraisers to assist him, and answer all public questions on both the fundraisers and the progress of the re-opening effort.

2) That Mr. Woodruff would be available for interviews or information requests if he chose, but only from recognized, working members of the mainstream media, while public questions, other mainstream media queries, or info requests from DB Cooper fans and armchair Cooper investigators would be handled by Adventure Books of Seattle.

3) It was decided that Adventure Books staff would create and coordinate two separate crowdfunding pages dedicated to raise funds to assist Mr Woodruff, one at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login and the other at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login, with Mr Woodruff being named as the sole recipient of the funds. Some items, such as DB Cooper t-shirts, Cooper-related books, and other materials will be offered up as 'perks' to people donating to this effort. The crowdfunding pages at those sites will open on or around May 2, 2016 and the links will be posted here, at Facebook, and other social media sites.

4) A Facebook business page has been created for the Ariel General Store and Tavern. You can see it HERE.

5) Primary Media and Public Information Contact: Robert Blevins.
Contact email: adventurebooksofseattle AT G Mail Dot Com (spelled out to dodge the evil spammers)


The downside is Blevins' #2 above. He says he is in charge of all communications with Bryan, or about the project? I guess that means Blevins will decide who is legitimate and who is not legitimate. You may apply to Blevins at Adventure Books. Hmmmmmm. Will hand signals, secret codes, and special uniforms or tattoos be involved? Be prepared to give all of your personal info to Blevins and Gayla!

If a person is banned does that mean his wife and all of children and relatives are banned ... by Blevins Uber Alles?
Running the math this could wind up involving the whole population of the State of Washington and other States and Principalities, or whole nations! Is Blevins going to raise an Army? Hmmmmm. This could be BIG!     

I mean this could get really CRAZY!    With fist fights and contact sports at the NEW Ariel Store, all being fought over Mr. Blevins' virtue! Who would have thunk it! ?   

[MarkBennett]

Don't forget that Robert also wants final approval of any articles written, if the author wants to use any of the pictures he has.

It seems pretty clear a lot of the words Robert is using are there just to try to get back at people at this forum.  Who else in the non "mainstream media" might try to contact Bryan?

Oh well, it's the family's building, fund raiser and choice.   I hope they raise the funds to reopen the Ariel Store and Tavern and everything works out for them. 

[georger]

Don't forget that Robert also wants final approval of any articles written, if the author wants to use any of the pictures he has.

It seems pretty clear a lot of the words Robert is using are there just to try to get back at people at this forum.  Who else in the non "mainstream media" might try to contact Bryan?

Oh well, it's the family's building, fund raiser and choice.   I hope they raise the funds to reopen the Ariel Store and Tavern and everything works out for them.

Somebody is going to get screwed, in the end. I give it a year and then somebody is going to get screwed.

[Bruce A. Smith]

And all I ever really wanted at Ariel was wet T shirt contests and mud wrestling - all while wearing an NB-8, or NB-6 if overstuffed with a 28-foot canopy. C-9s optional.

I could see a WWE tie-in, too. Pay-per-view?

How about we invite the Kardashians to Ariel? As usual, Bobby's view is too limited.

[Shutter]

And all I ever really wanted at Ariel was wet T shirt contests and mud wrestling - all while wearing an NB-8, or NB-6 if overstuffed with a 28-foot canopy. C-9s optional.

I could see a WWE tie-in, too. Pay-per-view?

How about we invite the Kardashians to Ariel? As usual, Bobby's view is too limited.

where would the clip on tie go? 

[Bruce A. Smith]

Trick Question!  Cooper didn't wear his tie, so in Ariel no one wears a tie in his honor.

But extra credit will be given to wet T shirts that have a clip-on tie painted on them.

[Shutter]

Trick Question!  Cooper didn't wear his tie, so in Ariel no one wears a tie in his honor.

But extra credit will be given to wet T shirts that have a clip-on tie painted on them.

He had it on when he boarded the plane....

You sure nobody wears a tie in Ariel?


OMG, am I permitted to post these photo's of Ariel 

[Bruce A. Smith]

Clearly, my recollections of Ariel were incorrect.

(smile).

[Bruce A. Smith]

Ariel Update

This just in from Doug Kenck-Crispin -

    On 4/24/2016 5:13 PM, Doug Kenck-Crispin wrote:

Hi Bruce!

I found myself driving by the Woodland exit on I-5 today, so I opted for a quick detour to Ariel. I ended up at the General Store at about noon. I am assuming that it was likely Church Time, and everything was pretty tightly locked up. I poked around a little bit, but didn't see anyone around. I got a bit creepy and looked in the windows- there was a Foos ball table where the dancing usually occurs at the party and quite a few empty boxes strewn about the "stage" area. I saw no evidence to indicate that it had even recently been open to the public. I half expected to see a sign or a memo taped to the window that might say something like "All Media Inquiries Please Contact ABC Books of Auburn," but alas- nothing to indicate much life at all, save some household garbage in the firewood box on the front stoop...

There were a few vehicles on the parking strip and while all the lights were off, there was still active electricity service  to the General Store.

Thought you might like a recent update. Hope all is well! - Doug

***********************************
Here is pix Doug took today of the Old Place:

(Ouch; pop-up says "too big". Shut? Help!)

[Bruce A. Smith]

The above sounds like the Ariel in the "off-season" that I know.

[Shutter]

Nice update! it's kind of expected to be like that after hearing that nothing goes on after Cooper time. Bobby's probably saving up for a giant neon sign 

[Bruce A. Smith]

Since so many of us here are advertising and marketing the Ariel Store, maybe we should charge Bobby a fee for our services. If it wasn't for us, where would the indiegogo and gofundme rebuild program be?

[Shutter]

Since so many of us here are advertising and marketing the Ariel Store, maybe we should charge Bobby a fee for our services. If it wasn't for us, where would the indiegogo and gofundme rebuild program be?

Has the funding started?