Georger you say "Play it again, Sam. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz' 
"There has been nothing new in the DB Cooper case in the last ____ 13,205.5 days. Still counting."
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 01:23:39 PM by georger »"
 
I say that says it all Georger,  as you have nothing to say as usual.  The rest of us can discuss the case with intelligent discourse in the mean time.

Bob Sailshaw
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You have me confused with somebody else. I am a mere spectator to your fine art of claims and personal attacks.

People have been asking you for some "proof" of your claims for months/years. We have read your endless claims that Peterson lied on matters you say are crucial to the DB Cooper case. Are you ready to finally give us some proof of your claims. Likewise are you ready to give us some proof that any of your claims has anything to do with the DB Cooper case? You have yet to actually put Peterson on the plane, or anyone else for that matter!

You keep attacking me but I have told you hundreds of times I am not the FBI and I cannot do anything in this whole matter except sit here and read your posts of frustration, and watch the coins spin as you drop them now going on five years, or more?

Suggestion: You also fail to make some vital connections, so far as I can tell. You keep saying that all the FBI needs to do is run dna on the socalled 'Cooper Letters' stamps and that will prove Peterson was Cooper? Your test, it seems to me, might connect Peterson with the socalled Cooper Letters but that still does not prove he was DB Cooper. I mean, nobody knows who wrote those socalled 'Cooper letters' ... of which there are a bunch!

What you need, Mr. Sailshaw is something that actually puts Peterson "on the plane", ie some direct unimpeachable proof he "was" DB Cooper, and you have yet to provide anything but your claims which do not meet the standard of evidence required. Don't you get this? Never mind the fact you also ignore which is Peterson's dna was collected and already tested! Various people at the FBI have said publicly that Peterson has been eliminated on that basis. You have dodged that question completely - for years at Dropzone and now here!

If what I have read here (and elsewhere) is accurate, Smith and others say Peterson has denied all of your claims. You have never addressed that here. So where does that leave this matter, which frankly I don't even give a crap about! In fact, you sir, have never addressed 'any' of the facts of the case with respect to Peterson. The physical and psychological profiles don't fit. When and how he planned and conducted the hijacking, how he escaped, where he escaped to, how he died and was resurrected if that was the case?. His notes, his dress, his language, his whole methodology, etc. For all we know you don't have the faintest idea how or even why (I have a grudge) Peterson conducted the hijacking so much as it was just him, without a shred of doubt based on what? "The system to beat the system" and particles on the tie? You claim Peterson was an expert in all phases of the hijacking so how do you explain the lost money? Does Tom Kaye or Geoff Gray think Peterson was Cooper? Who else beside you does? It's details that matter ...   

All I can do is sit here and watch your social media bottle spinning, and your social media coin drops twirl.

Good luck with your quest ... 

Hopefully Prospector will launch his new candidate soon and we can move on to something (and someone) NEW ?

Oh! Before I forget it, in all these years you have yet to explain how the Ingram money find and Peterson fit together? Have you thought about that and do you have an explanation? Something new?

  

         

An Open Letter to Sailshaw

When Georger takes his "happy pills," he is actually a nice fellow, and his commentary makes sense.

Sail, Georger is asking good questions, and I would imagine that your blood pressure probably rose a bit reading the past few posts. But know that although I applaud G's questioning, I do accept that finding answers to his postings may be beyond your resources, time, or energy, so I do not put any pressure on you to rebut his stuff or launch a massive effort to find the answers that he is demanding from you.

You and I are in much the same spot, as most of us here - we do what we can do regarding the DB Cooper case, and in the process of doing that we get excited, draw conclusions, or project speculations. I view your pronouncements of being in that category, and I commiserate with your frustration, especially at the FBI.

Ironically, the one person on this forum who could do more, reveal more, dig a little deeper into what is known-but-not-that-which-is-necessarily-public-information-at-this-time, is Georger himself. He has family and friends in the FBI and in Norjak. He had a personal relationship with Larry Carr. In fact, Carr wanted Georger to head the Citizen Sleuths, as I understand the story from G. Further, Tom Kaye became the head of the CS upon the recommendation of Georger.

Further, G has mentioned occasionally, such as at the DZ, that he has family and friends in the FBI. At the very least, his knowledge of Norjak is vast. He knows more about the money find than anyone else I have encountered.

So, it is plausible that Georger could leverage some of those contacts and provide some of the answers that he is challenging you to provide.

I agree with G that Petey doesn't look good for the skyjacking since his DNA didn't match whatever it is that the FBI tests these days for DBC. But recent discoveries about how the FBI tests DNA leave this issue open. Maybe not WIDE open, but, just because Petey's DNA swab didn't set off fireworks doesn't mean he isn't the skyjacker. We need to continue looking at Petey AND at the DNA issues swirling around the feds.

Perhaps Georger could tell us more about what the FBI is doing to nail down DB Cooper's DNA, and testing the stamps on the letters would be a good avenue to check, imo. Here is what information I would hope Georger could provide us:

1. Exactly when did the cigarette butts go missing? What was their status? Carr said they had been "processed." What exactly does that mean? Is anyone looking for them, now? If not, why not?

2. The tie has DNA from at least three different males. Who are they? Are they suspects, FBI agents, or immaterial bystanders whose spittle zigged when it should have zagged?

3. What is the problem with the epithelial cells that the FBI said they recovered from the tie. What the heck is a "partial" profile? Lt. Benson on Law and Order never has to deal with "partial" DNA samples, so why do we? Besides, labs can now get "touch" DNA. Yee-Gawds, that sound like pretty slick lab work - why does the FBI continue to struggle with this issue if the NYPD can find the right suspect within 42 minutes every week?

I know Georger has posted a ton o' stuff about alleles, chromosomal markers and all, but he presents it in such an overwhelming fashion as to intimidate ALL commentary, bludgeoning everyone into silence. G, in effect, is a cerebral bully, and a very effective one. When he goes Super-Scientific my eyes roll back in my head and my mind goes numb - and I have a degree in Biology! I should be able to keep with him, but I just tune out, which is probably what Georger desires most.

Perhaps one day he will be able to corral his inclinations to shut us up and actually join us in a true dialogue.

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Perhaps the more legitimate question is: Did Peterson know DB Cooper, or did Cooper know him? That it seems to me, is a legitimate question and I cannot help but wonder if the FBI questioned Peterson along those lines. Of course Peterson has never said, or elaborated on his conversations with the FBI. If the posts that have been made on this topic are accurate, Peterson did finally submit to giving a dna sample and was ruled out. That does not mean that someone else familiar with Peterson, or perhaps a friend of his, was DB Cooper? Someone who traveled in the same circles as Peterson who had 'similar exposures and values', including access to the same materials including the Boeing recycling bins, or people working in 'hot' venues related to the real evidence in this case ?

Has Peterson ever had any tangible connection with hijackings or subversive activities of a material kind? That question seems perfectly legitimate to me. Has this ever been brought up before?

Based on Peterson's writings he seems to have had a 'flirtation' with the Cooper affair. The genesis of that has not been well-defined. Which came first - the FBI's interest in Peterson or Peterson's interest in the Cooper hijacking backed up by other political stances Peterson has taken during his life?...

These are excellent questions, and finding answers has been elusive. But here's what I know.

Petey has clammed up or lied about all the leads that take us in these directions. Petey denies knowing Sail or ever living with him, and also denies knowing Cossey.

I had about a dozen email exchanges with Petey, but they were all conducted in an egg-shell environment. We never talked substantively about anything that might lead to Cooper, Nepal, the CIA, or whatever the heck he was doing for 30 years in Asia. So, I've got zip along those lines. But I got some leads to his friends and family, which I followed-up.

Petey's friends at Newsweek whom he knew in Vietnam, think I was a creep for asking investigatory questions about their friend. They were patently offended when I asked if Pete was a CIA agent or some kind of field observer.

Alden Peterson, Petey's brother, thinks it is absolutely crazy to think that his younger brother is DB Cooper.

Petey's teaching buddy, Russ Halot, who also wrote with him at the Eastside Journal, is astonished that Petey says he got all those teaching/writing jobs throughout Asia, because he only covered "fluff" pieces back in the day. He also told me that he was surprised to get a periodic postcard from Petey, postmarked from many of the exotic locales that Petey has described. Russ also acknowledged that he was surprised and somewhat concerned that the postcards were mailed in countries that had a lot of political turmoil, and were dangerous places.

Petey's neighbors at his assisted-living community were glad to see him go when he got kicked out. Some of them told me they were uneasy in his company. One told me that she thought Petey had murdered his wife in the Philippines, which reveals that Petey shared some personal stories with folks that were only neighbors. Others also told me that Petey was very intimidating and critical in the community's writing group. His actions sounded cruel.

Former Special Agent Mary Jean Fryar was both fascinated and suspicious of Petey. She conjured up an excuse to interrogate him a second time after the DNA swab. She knew something was fishy, but she couldn't get anything from him to insure a continued investigation.

Petey's own words about Cooper sound totally bogus to me. His analysis of Cooper's jump for Parachutist magazine sounds like a copycat script from the same guy who was writing Earl Cossey's statements back in the day when Coss was known as more than just a rigger. So, why is Petey so happy to continue to spin the bs about how nasty an NB-8 is?

So, based on all of this, I consider it plausible that Petey was part of an official FBI "brain trust" - along with Earl Cossey - to develop a spin job to discredit DB Cooper and lower his appeal in the public's mind as a super hero who could beat the system and thump Da Man.

I know that speculation about a Psy-Ops program to white-wash Norjak is unappealing to many, and downright disgusting to Georger and few others, but I do think that it would be inappropriate not to consider the possibility. After all, after Marla and LD Cooper and DB Cooper, the potentials are there to be recognized, I say.

So, I think it is clear that Petey knows a lot more about Norjak than he is willing to discuss. The big question is: he is hiding his knowledge of who the skyjacker is, or is he helping to deliver a cover-up into its fifth decade?

Good replies... you say:

So, I think it is clear that Petey knows a lot more about Norjak than he is willing to discuss.

I say:

So, I think it is clear that Petey knows a lot more about Petey than he is willing to discuss. ! The real Petey may not be nearly as interesting as the mythical Petey who apparently has some real accomplishments to his credit. . He may be a passive-aggressive personality who likes attention, actually deserves some attention for his records, then backs off in denial once he gets attention. Isn't that something like what Cossey was like?

Example: Either he rented from Sail or he didn't! I would believe Sail before I would believe Petey. And the hell of it is, maybe neither of them kept any actual proof or thought they would ever need to!

 
 

Georger: Your pills have really got you off the track. Your type of thinking (along with Tom Kaye's leap to the false conclusion that having both types of Titanium meant it was not from Boeing as they only used alloy Titanium), is why the FBI has yet to solve the crime.
However, I have offered two things that the FBI could use to solve the crime:
1)   The DNA under the stamps and envelope flaps of the four letters DB sent to the newspapers and compare them with the DNA they have from Sheridan Peterson. A match would show he was not in Nepal but at the scene of the crime in Portland Oregon.
2)   My best and latest is finding the FLAW in his alibi that he was delivering one of his two children in Nepal as required by the Female Doctor and could not be two places at the same time. The FLAW is that neither of his two children were born in the year of Norjak 1971 as the son was born in 1970 and the daughter was born in 1972 (both in Nepal) per public records from persopo.com. Note Georger that is the proof he lied to the FBI which is a Federal Crime with jail time that could be offered to trade for the rest of the DB story and how he did it, for his freedom. I will give the FBI the rest of this year to finish up the details as they have this info in the hands of the Case Agent per Ayn Dietrich at the Seattle FBI Office.

Georger I suggest you check the birth dates of the two children in Nepal yourself at persopo.com!
Then ask yourself why would he lie to the FBI unless he is DB Cooper!
 

Bob Sailshaw
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I think Georger does a good job in trying to determine what interest the FBI has in Peterson.  And, it's not zero.  They might not consider him a suspect, but they didn't disqualify him out of hand like they've done to so many others.

We don't know what the FBI knows.  And, often, what they say is just generic press statements.  That's why we need to pay more attention to what they do, rather than what they say.

The FBI DID talk to Peterson.  They did take a DNA sample.

Larry Carr wanted to compare DNA to someone in Utah, according to Grays' book.  He doesn't say who, although I suspect Gossett or McCoy.

And, of course, they spent lots of time looking at LD Cooper.  What piqued their interest on him as opposed to others?  There has to be some reason.  I also doubt Marla even knows the answer to that one.

But, other suspects they know they can disqualify immediately.  With Carr involved on DZ, and his talking to Gray, we can be pretty sure that Duane and Kenny were not disqualified simply because they weren't  considered closely enough.

The FBI knows more than we do, that's for sure.  I wish we could figure out what that is.

Yes, it is possible that Petey knows nothing of DB Cooper, Cossey, or anything to do with Norjak, and is simply a secretive recluse for unknown reasons.

Which brings us around again to the beginning: the FBI investigated Petey twice.

Why.

And was their dismissal of Mr. Peterson truly warranted?

As for Mr. Cossey... Georger says:
"...He may be a passive-aggressive personality who likes attention, actually deserves some attention for his records, then backs off in denial once he gets attention. Isn't that something like what Cossey was like?..."

Cossey passive-aggressive? Hmmm. I would never peg him as p-a. He was wildly deceptive and very manipulative, and lied to me repeatedly. Yet, he wasn't passive. He consistently refused to meet in person for an interview, but spoke freely on the phone at length. As for backing-off from his accomplishments, I don't know of any instances when Coss did so. If anything, he seemed to relish being in the spotlight.

If anyone around here is passive-aggressive, Georger, it is you. You consistently refuse to discuss matters at depth, frequently ignore questions directed at you, and you mock most people who peeve you. I would say that is a passive-aggressive disposition.

To wit: You ever gonna talk about your relationships with the FBI?

Of course, we still love you, or at least we'll keep trying to...

First Bruce, I dont think you know what passive-aggressive is and how it works, or you are applying the term incorrectly. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Just as the word says, it has two poles. A passive phase and an aggressive phase. Behavior cycles back & forth between those two poles. First usually comes the aggressive phase where people take overt steps to get attention. That is followed by attempts to then wave off the very attention that was originally sought. You sometimes see this behavior in dating activity. At the core of the behavior is a 'failure' on the part of the instigator to connect the dots and process basic cause & effect logic. It's like a child who continually steps out in front of traffic without any consideration of what the effect may be (to others and to the individual themselves). Then when something does happen the instigator denies any responsibility in the whole affair and will go to great lengths to deny and get out of any responsibility.

A passive-aggressive person has a poorly defined sense of social limits. The causes of this condition can run the gamut. In older people it can be due to senility, an actual medical condition. In younger people that can be due to a simple lack of experience. Passive-aggressive people commonly infringe on other people's rights.

I think most people understand and have a feeling for what passive-aggressive behavior is; just as most people know what appropriate vs. inappropriate behavior is. The ancient Common Law is based on the distinction.

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I see Peterson and Cossey as alike in this matter. Both were skilled people who actually sought attention and even claimed importance, but demurred resorting to ' sullenness, stubbornness, and negative expressions, and even trickery and hostility' in response to getting the attention they wanted in the first place. Both appear to have had "secret lives" in addition to their normal social lives and identities. You can see there is a disconnect in the basic logics driving their lives. Both participated in dangerous life-threatening activities during their lives coupled with a denial of those same activities. I think it was a fundamental part of their identities which as most people know can have negative consequences, sooner or later.

So far as I understand the syndrome, passive-aggressive personalities may have a rich fantasy life. At the core of this syndrome may be profound feelings of loneliness, emptiness, feelings of inferiority and inadequacy on the part of the individual. Passive-aggressive activity could be an attempt to compensate (or fill the void) for such feelings thus elevating the person's self importance, in their own minds.

One example could be a person who continually asks another person in an open forum 'what's your special relationship to the FBI' as if there is one ...  when in fact there is none.

All views I give are mine and mine alone.

 
 

         

I would love to join the club. So far, I've spoken once to Larry Carr, exchanged one email with Curtis Eng about my cyber security issues in 2012-2013, and I spoke with Himms for about 20 minutes when I dropped in uninvited. I also spoke on the phone, briefly with both John Detlor and Russ Calame - and that's its for my relationship with FBI agents closely involved with Norjak.

As I ventured further from the inner sanctum, I've had more success - Mary Jane Fryer and George Grotz concerning Petey, and Gary Tallis down in Portland during the 2011 Symposium.

But that's it. It's a pretty skinny list, imo.

Maybe you could introduce me to a few of your friends? Ya know, put in a good word? 

Just askin'.

Shutter:   You say "Sailshaw, can you provide the information from the link you provided? that's a pay site."

I say:   Yes, persopo.com sent back the following answer as to what the public record birthdays for Sheridan two children, born in Nepal, as follows:

The son Sheridan Ramon Peterson was born Sept. 12, 1970 and the daughter Ginger Lucena Peterson was born October 1972. Please remember Norjak was November 24, 1971 which shows that Sheridan Peterson's alibi to the FBI was a lie and is a Federal crime with jail time. The FBI could trade jail time for the "rest of the story" from Sheridan and the case could finally be closed.

Yes, persopo.com is a pay site

Bob Sailshaw
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Anything showing where the kids were born?

It would be highly unlikely the FBI would do anything about someone lying to them. that happens all the time in LE.