andrade1812    You say:  "Not sure the FBI appreciates the annual "Look at this case the FBI couldn't solve" news cycle right before they visit family on Thanksgiving. However, it wouldn't surprise me if the FBI had a short list of people they thought were Cooper, but never talk about because they don't have actionable evidence."

I asy:   Well the Seattle FBI Office has all they need to solve the case now as I gave Ayn Dirtrich in the Seattle FBI Office all the info they need to solve the case and she replied to me that she had passed my information on to the Seattle FBI "Case Agent".
The heart of my information was that Sheridan Peterson's Alibi to his where about at the time of Norjak was phony and my information was the FLAW in the Alibi that he was in Nepal delivering one of his two children (a requirement of their Female Doctor that all men should deliver their own children) and could not been at the scene of the crime for Norjak.

The FLAW was that neither of his two children were born in the year of Norjak (1971) but were born in: Son 1970 and the Daughter in 1972 and  in Nepal per persopo.com.


That completely blows Sheridan's Alibi and the FBI can use that lie to the FBI (a Federal Crime) to trade for no jail time if Sheridan tells the rest of the DB Cooper story.

So, maybe by this Thanksgiving the FBI will have finally solved the Norjak case. If not then it looks like a FBI cover-up as they have all they need. CASE SOLVED or why else would Sheridan have told a lie to the FBI about his where about during Norjak?

Bob Sailshaw
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Georger wrote: "Except for take off and landing is there anything aerodynamically crucial about the stairs being out ?  No.  It wouldn't take much of an engineer to see that. The stairs are a fig leaf attached to a very functional very powerful aircraft! What's the secret about that! "

I have a different opinion. That extended stair is like a big elevator surface and could cause a substantial pitch down force.  Not a big deal you might say, elevator trim could compensate for it. Imagine the stairs becoming unloaded/loaded and changing position as the autopilot commands an elevator angle change. What if it triggered an autopilot (or pilot caused) pitch oscillation that  became divergent? It would depend on a lot of factors, autopilot servo response times, stair extension spring force and damping, etc. You could also get the stairs themselves wildly oscillating up and down and possibly breaking. You could even get flutter which can go from mild to wild and massively destructive in less than a second.

As to the ability of the 727 to operate safely with the stairs extended, the cockpit crew didn't know. NWA ops didnt know. Boeing, however, did know.

If it was so obvious (G called the extended stairs a "fig leaf" on a .... very powerful acft) why would extensive flight tests have been needed?

What does Sailshaw think? He was a Boeing engineer. We have some other engineers reading this. Your thoughts?

I do not think it was obvious that the 727 could fly safely with the stairs extended. I do not think it was widely known or easily deducible that the stairs could be deployed in flight. It would have been easy for Boeing to have put in a landing gear squat switch activated interlock preventing airstair door opening after liftoff. I think Cooper knew it could be opened. How did he know?

377

My suspicion is the 727 was designed precisely with that rear cargo deployment capability in mind. Either that or its the happiest coincidence since the invention of the 'nose'. But who knows ...
 
Follow the money - R&D - procedures in place for removal of the stairs (direct access to the hole) - and the list goes on. People claiming not to know about this matter IN A PUBLIC FORUM ON THE RADIO - IN THE MIDDLE OF A HIJACKING! - should  taken with a grain of salt. Isn't a little like when God was asked about the "nose" and the "penis" by CNN? God replied, "What nose! I'm busy with the Babylonians right now. Call me later. I never heard of it before!".    

Engineers are the last people to know about or admit to - anything!

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Georger wrote: "Except for take off and landing is there anything aerodynamically crucial about the stairs being out ?  No.  It wouldn't take much of an engineer to see that. The stairs are a fig leaf attached to a very functional very powerful aircraft! What's the secret about that! "

I have a different opinion. That extended stair is like a big elevator surface and could cause a substantial pitch down force.  Not a big deal you might say, elevator trim could compensate for it. Imagine the stairs becoming unloaded/loaded and changing position as the autopilot commands an elevator angle change. What if it triggered an autopilot (or pilot caused) pitch oscillation that  became divergent? It would depend on a lot of factors, autopilot servo response times, stair extension spring force and damping, etc. You could also get the stairs themselves wildly oscillating up and down and possibly breaking. You could even get flutter which can go from mild to wild and massively destructive in less than a second.

As to the ability of the 727 to operate safely with the stairs extended, the cockpit crew didn't know. NWA ops didnt know. Boeing, however, did know.

If it was so obvious (G called the extended stairs a "fig leaf" on a .... very powerful acft) why would extensive flight tests have been needed?

What does Sailshaw think? He was a Boeing engineer. We have some other engineers reading this. Your thoughts?

I do not think it was obvious that the 727 could fly safely with the stairs extended. I do not think it was widely known or easily deducible that the stairs could be deployed in flight. It would have been easy for Boeing to have put in a landing gear squat switch activated interlock preventing airstair door opening after liftoff. I think Cooper knew it could be opened. How did he know?

377

My suspicion is the 727 was designed precisely with that rear cargo deployment capability in mind. Either that or its the happiest coincidence since the invention of the 'nose'. But who knows ...
 
Follow the money - R&D - procedures in place for removal of the stairs (direct access to the hole) - and the list goes on. People claiming not to know about this matter IN A PUBLIC FORUM ON THE RADIO - IN THE MIDDLE OF A HIJACKING! - should  taken with a grain of salt. Isn't a little like when God was asked about the "nose" by CNN? God replied, "What nose! I'm busy with the Babylonians right now. Call me later.".   

The 727's configuration is very easy to convert to a cargo delivery capability through the rear stairs opening even if it wasn't specifically designed for that.

As Georger says, the best way to answer some of the questions here is to follow the path back to the source of the R&D money.

Boeing wasn't the only aircraft designer, going back to the 1950's and military needs/projections on the world stage. It was inevitable we would need efficient-flexible delivery systems which also had commercial utility. The French were bogged down in So-East Asia, we were going to help France and intervene, So-East Asia was going to be the new proving ground for all kinds of technology and politics. The stage was set. The 727 was designed with those needs in mind... Im surprised they didn't press the Wright flyer and the Curtis Jenny into service in Vietnam ... along with the French Nieuport (what a plane!!!) ...   

If not mistaken the crew stated there was a slight pitch in the aircraft when the stairs were deployed. I don't think it had much of an effect on the plane. it did damage the stairs to some extent....

In my search for 727 drop test info I have read a lot about the plane. Very fast aircraft, but a three person cockpit and 3 rather than 2 engines meant that the operating economics just couldn't compete with the later twins having similar specs and needing no flight engineer.

There were a surprising number of aftermarket mods for the 727 trying to make the operating economics more attractive: winglets, re-engining, etc:

Super 27 (from Wikipedia)
"Speed increased by 50 mph (80 km/h), due to replacement of the two side engines with the JT8D-217 or the JT8D-219, which are also found on many MD-80s, along with the addition of hush kits to the center engine. Winglets were added to some of these aircraft to increase fuel efficiency. This modification was originally developed by Valsan Partners, but was later marketed by Quiet Wing Technologies in Redmond, Washington.

There was at least one proposal to modify the 727 to eliminate the flight engineer position but the program could not generate enough purchase commitments to justify the development cost:

In 1995 Aeroworks and Gull Electronic Systems offered a conversion for a 2-man B727 cockpit, eliminating the F/E position. The "DuoDeck" conversion was reportedly "largely based on the Boeing 737-200 cockpit, and Aeroworks claimed that the 2-man cockpit modification would save B727 operators $350,000-$650,000 an aircraft annually in labour and support costs.

Fedex and UPS flew them for a long time after they disappeared from major airline passenger service, but the 727 is no longer in their freighter fleets.

377


 

Anyone read this new book? You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

377

From:https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2007/december/dbcooper_123107

"A few things to keep in mind, according to Special Agent Carr:

Cooper was no expert skydiver. “We originally thought Cooper was an experienced jumper, perhaps even a paratrooper,” says Special Agent Carr. “We concluded after a few years this was simply not true. No experienced parachutist would have jumped in the pitch-black night, in the rain, with a 200-mile-an-hour wind in his face, wearing loafers and a trench coat. It was simply too risky. He also missed that his reserve chute was only for training and had been sewn shut—something a skilled skydiver would have checked.”"

The loafers are indeed a puzzle, if they were correctly described. Jo says they were actually "ankle boots".

The reserve is no puzzle at all, Cooper really didn't need a reserve. He asked for a pair and would have probably used one if either main rig had D rings, but the inability to use a reserve wasn't a show stopper.

The MAC SOG guys jumped at night, in rain and into hostile territory. Not at all ideal, but doable. A daytime fair weather  jump would have made it easier for aerial searchers to find Cooper.

377

Shootin’ from the hip here, but wasn’t Cooper observed to have a small bag of unknown content with him.  Something like 4”x12”x14”?  Can’t experiment with it now, but used to have a pair of Jungle Boots which I could scrunch down real tight into my kit.  Just guessing, but why not a pair in the bag with skull cap, pair of gloves, small gog’s, and roll of 1” gun tape.  Little bit of kit in a small package could make life a lot easier.  He had about ½ hour on his own back there where no one saw what he did. 

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From:https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2007/december/dbcooper_123107

"A few things to keep in mind, according to Special Agent Carr:

Cooper was no expert skydiver. “We originally thought Cooper was an experienced jumper, perhaps even a paratrooper,” says Special Agent Carr. “We concluded after a few years this was simply not true. No experienced parachutist would have jumped in the pitch-black night, in the rain, with a 200-mile-an-hour wind in his face, wearing loafers and a trench coat. It was simply too risky. He also missed that his reserve chute was only for training and had been sewn shut—something a skilled skydiver would have checked.”"

The loafers are indeed a puzzle, if they were correctly described. Jo says they were actually "ankle boots".

The reserve is no puzzle at all, Cooper really didn't need a reserve. He asked for a pair and would have probably used one if either main rig had D rings, but the inability to use a reserve wasn't a show stopper.

The MAC SOG guys jumped at night, in rain and into hostile territory. Not at all ideal, but doable. A daytime fair weather  jump would have made it easier for aerial searchers to find Cooper.

377

Shootin’ from the hip here, but wasn’t Cooper observed to have a small bag of unknown content with him.  Something like 4”x12”x14”?  Can’t experiment with it now, but used to have a pair of Jungle Boots which I could scrunch down real tight into my kit.  Just guessing, but why not a pair in the bag with skull cap, pair of gloves, small gog’s, and roll of 1” gun tape.  Little bit of kit in a small package could make life a lot easier.  He had about ½ hour on his own back there where no one saw what he did.

The shoes are a serious paradox from our point of view. A gap in his experience-thinking? Planned to jump near enough civilisation he wouldnt need protective footwear? Had help waiting and wouldnt spend much time in the woods? Had much experience and had jumped au naturale before, maybe many times (had hardy well worn feet). While it's not advised in the manual, there are some survivalists who go into very hostile terrain and conditions bare foot and actually prefer bare feet if possible! The conditions Cooper encountered would be a back yard stroll to one of those latter types of all-native guys! Or, perhaps this was all rushed and Cooper wore what he had time and resources to prepare with.  There is latitude in this issue - the fact of loafers does not automatically spell 'crazy'.

In fact, he could have had some type of protective footwear and other gear under his clothing. Dont forget he and he alone visited the rear lav and spent considerable time in there just after landing at Seattle. He could have pulled things out from under his clothing while in the lav and stored things there until the end when he needed them. Nobody but Cooper was in that lav after the plane landed at Seattle. In fact the last passenger to use that lav prior to landing could have pout things in there for him!  Mukluks stow very nicely and you can survive in the Arctic with them.