Author Topic: General Questions About The Case  (Read 775178 times)

Offline Prospector

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #810 on: March 07, 2016, 07:26:31 PM »
Correct me if I’m wrong, but as far as I can tell from the research I have done into the DB Cooper mystery, there are three scenarios that exist (discounting conspiracy theories):

1.   Cooper exited the aircraft, could not get his chute open, drilled into the duff and perished;
2.   Cooper exited the aircraft, landed in a water body and perished;
3.   Cooper exited the aircraft, survived the jump, escaped the dragnet, and:
a.   deceased some time afterward, or,
b.   remains alive today.

If #1 is true, considering the time that has passed, Coopers’ remains would likely be decomposed and tied-up in the nutrient cycle of the forest ecosystem and scant evidence may remain intact that could identify who DB Cooper was.  Perhaps one day any surviving evidence will be discovered by a Cooper researcher, logger, hunter, road builder, forest firefighter, etc...

If #2 is true, again considering the time that has passed, it is likely that all physical evidence that could indicate who DB Cooper was may be buried in sediments and/or decomposed to an unrecognizable form and washed out to sea as fish food.  For someone, perhaps a recent kipper entrĂ©e is DB Cooper.  He is part of the food chain. 

If #3a is true, and if he did not meet his fate by foul play and fed to the pigs or dissolved in a vat of acid, it is conceivable that evidence may surface that sheds light on who DB Cooper was.  An autopsy report, a personal item with fingerprints or DNA sample, photographs, etc...

If #3b is true, he walks amongst us today.  It then goes without saying, all the evidence would exist to identify who DB Cooper is.  The trick is spotting him within the 7 billion+ people on the planet today.  Perhaps a simple process of elimination or a sharp-eyed someone is all that is required to solve the enduring mystery.

44 years and counting, 1000+ people scrutinized – and nothing – this despite so many talented people seeking Coopers’ true identity considering the scenarios listed above.  Is it just a matter of people looking in the wrong places or is there another scenario not accounted for – is there some validity to any of the countless conspiracy theories floating around?  After giving it much thought, I suspect he survived the jump and escaped the dragnet.  Observation tells me it is plausible that he may still be with us today.  So now there is yet one more person looking at faces in the crowd for John Doe (a.k.a. Dan Cooper) (a.k.a. DB Cooper).

 

Offline 377

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #811 on: March 07, 2016, 07:36:41 PM »
The cadmium plated harness hardware on the NB8 rig, the ripcord pin cones,  the riser connector links and (stainless steel?) ripcord cable tube could literally survive for centuries.

A long time ago I posted info about submerged unopened WW2 parachutes found 70 years later in great shape.

If above ground, UV would likely destroy all the nylon stuff eventually, but some of the metal parts could last a long long time.

The flexible segmented cable tube is very distinctive and if found with other hardware might cause further inquiry and subsequent identification as parachute gear.

377
« Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 07:37:24 PM by 377 »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #812 on: March 07, 2016, 10:09:18 PM »
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...as far as I can tell from the research I have done into the DB Cooper mystery, there are three scenarios that exist (discounting conspiracy theories)...

Ahhhhh, Prospector! How come you are giving up so easily? Vat? You don't like my time-traveling scenario? (It's my favorite "conspiracy theory" theory.)

But, of the more mainstream/conventional theories of Norjak, whaddaya like?

1. Whuffo, dumb-shit who froze his nuts off in a wind-chill of 120 degrees below zero and cratered with an "X" parachute wrapped around his tootsies?

2. Slick SOG guy who did a one-off over the T-Day weekend, and then went back to his regular Army gig in 'Nam.

3. The gay purser from Northwest Orient?

4. The trans-gender gal from Thun Field?

5. Eagle-eyed Petey who got sick and tired of living in a mud hut in Nepal?

6. The suicidal guy with bad kidneys, but a heart of gold?

7. The UAL Captain who had an ex who hired a look-alike to do the job and frame him?

8. The Wolf Man of Depoe Bay?
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #813 on: March 07, 2016, 10:11:56 PM »
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The cadmium plated harness hardware on the NB8 rig, the ripcord pin cones,  the riser connector links and (stainless steel?) ripcord cable tube could literally survive for centuries.

A long time ago I posted info about submerged unopened WW2 parachutes found 70 years later in great shape.

If above ground, UV would likely destroy all the nylon stuff eventually, but some of the metal parts could last a long long time.

The flexible segmented cable tube is very distinctive and if found with other hardware might cause further inquiry and subsequent identification as parachute gear.

377

As much as I LOVE you, 377, you drive me crazy with your persistence with the NB-6/NB-8 stuff. Whaddabout Hayden's Steinthaul Pioneer?
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #814 on: March 07, 2016, 10:19:57 PM »
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If #2 is true, again considering the time that has passed, it is likely that all physical evidence that could indicate who DB Cooper was may be buried in sediments and/or decomposed to an unrecognizable form and washed out to sea as fish food.  For someone, perhaps a recent kipper entrĂ©e is DB Cooper.  He is part of the food chain. 


Richard Tosaw is your friend, Prospector!

My fantasy object, Mooshie Farnsworth of Parachutist Magazine, is similarly inclined. She feels DBC splattered into a huge mud puddle and entombed himself and all of his gear. If you've ever been to Himmelsbach's 40-acre ranch - next to the Pudding River (need I saw more?) - you can see what serious mud looks like in rain country, and easily believe that Danny Boy made a big mud pie somewhere.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 10:26:30 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #815 on: March 07, 2016, 10:25:49 PM »
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...Is it just a matter of people looking in the wrong places or is there another scenario not accounted for – is there some validity to any of the countless conspiracy theories floating around?...

What do you think of my book and the many possibilities I posit?

Just askin'.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #816 on: March 07, 2016, 10:28:04 PM »
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...is there some validity to any of the countless conspiracy theories floating around?  After giving it much thought, I suspect he survived the jump and escaped the dragnet.  Observation tells me it is plausible that he may still be with us today.  So now there is yet one more person looking at faces in the crowd for John Doe (a.k.a. Dan Cooper) (a.k.a. DB Cooper).

So, Prospector, you ARE a conspiracy nut!!!

I knew you were one of us.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 10:30:05 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #817 on: March 07, 2016, 10:29:19 PM »
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...is there some validity to any of the countless conspiracy theories floating around?  After giving it much thought, I suspect he survived the jump and escaped the dragnet.  Observation tells me it is plausible that he may still be with us today.  So now there is yet one more person looking at faces in the crowd for John Doe (a.k.a. Dan Cooper) (a.k.a. DB Cooper).

This could be the beginning of a wonderful relationship...
« Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 10:30:43 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Prospector

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #818 on: March 07, 2016, 10:52:37 PM »
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...as far as I can tell from the research I have done into the DB Cooper mystery, there are three scenarios that exist (discounting conspiracy theories)...

Ahhhhh, Prospector! How come you are giving up so easily? Vat? You don't like my time-traveling scenario? (It's my favorite "conspiracy theory" theory.)

But, of the more mainstream/conventional theories of Norjak, whaddaya like?

1. Whuffo, dumb-shit who froze his nuts off in a wind-chill of 120 degrees below zero and cratered with an "X" parachute wrapped around his tootsies?

2. Slick SOG guy who did a one-off over the T-Day weekend, and then went back to his regular Army gig in 'Nam.

3. The gay purser from Northwest Orient?

4. The trans-gender gal from Thun Field?

5. Eagle-eyed Petey who got sick and tired of living in a mud hut in Nepal?

6. The suicidal guy with bad kidneys, but a heart of gold?

7. The UAL Captain who had an ex who hired a look-alike to do the job and frame him?

8. The Wolf Man of Depoe Bay?

Multiple choice questions usually have a choice for all of the above or none of the above (sometimes combo’s of choices too).  But since you give me no options like that, I’ll bite on #2 with the codicil that the very slick dude had completed his service tours and rotated back home. 

Why #2? - wasn’t the US$2 bill issued to service members to track where they spent their money while on leave overseas because it was ‘negotiable American currency’?  That and the whole 1971 who knew you could pull off a jump from a 727 given those flight parameters.  Those SOG guys were a skookum bunch, wish I had half the parts needed to have done the job.

In reality though, beyond the apparent fact that he “exited the aircraft”, everything else is for me is pure speculation.  Part marks for effort?
 

Offline Prospector

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #819 on: March 07, 2016, 10:55:24 PM »
What other Cooper characteristics other than the following list would lead a prospector to pay dirt?  Anything else that could be added that the seasoned Cooper vets can think of?  I’ll share the claim with the heavy lifters if I strike.


Facial features that closely match composites;

Height and build that closely match witness descriptions;

High hairline, forehead with some kind of unusual slant;

Had dark colored hair, irregular hairline;

Ears somewhat asymmetrical;

Close-set dark eyes, no eyelashes, short bushy angular eyebrows, and black lines above eyelids when open (hooded or droopy);

 â€œTurkey gobble” fold of skin below chin;

Swarthy or olive skin complexion;

Protruding lower lip;

Purses lips, action described as having relaxed and contracted positions (noticeable always or only when distressed, concentrating, etc...?);

Had two crooked front teeth;

Speaks English in a low voice, intelligently, and without any discernible accent;

Can be thoughtful and polite;

Possibly volatile when angered, carries a grudge;

A Caucasian male who was 35 years old or more in 1971 (79 years+ nowadays);

Possible military background, likely combat hardened;

Connected somehow with the Pacific Northwest;

Possible working knowledge of the French language;

Possibly connected with Canada and likely able to pass freely back and forth across the border (i.e. lacking criminal record).


On the “Bing Crosby” composite without sunglasses, there is some kind of shading, or so it would seem, on the bridge of the nose on the left side.  Is this some kind of shading by the sketch artist to indicate a mole or some other mark? I understand witnesses described Cooper as having no distinguishing marks or tattoos.  The age enhanced composite or “B” composite without sunglasses does not appear to have a similar feature.

The high forehead on the Bing composites seems somewhat laterally compressed with a hint of some form of raised bumps about mid-level, however, the B composite appears to show a somewhat more symmetrical forehead. 

There appears to be no description of his hands, which would have been the only other exposed skin surface visible to the various witnesses.  I’m curious if his hands were beefy, boney or somewhere in-between.  Was there anything released publically whether he was right or left handed, or ambidextrous?

If Cooper had a grudge before the skyjack, it would not be a stretch to think that grudge would have been amplified when the realization that the cash was marked set-in.  Good enough reason to write a book and try to at least get some royalties for the effort of it all.  Looking for a really angry old man getting royalty cheques might help. 


 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #820 on: March 08, 2016, 12:16:25 AM »
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What other Cooper characteristics other than the following list would lead a prospector to pay dirt?  Anything else that could be added that the seasoned Cooper vets can think of?  I’ll share the claim with the heavy lifters if I strike.


Facial features that closely match composites;

Height and build that closely match witness descriptions;

High hairline, forehead with some kind of unusual slant;

Had dark colored hair, irregular hairline;

Ears somewhat asymmetrical;

Close-set dark eyes, no eyelashes, short bushy angular eyebrows, and black lines above eyelids when open (hooded or droopy);

 â€œTurkey gobble” fold of skin below chin;

Swarthy or olive skin complexion;

Protruding lower lip;

Purses lips, action described as having relaxed and contracted positions (noticeable always or only when distressed, concentrating, etc...?);

Had two crooked front teeth;

Speaks English in a low voice, intelligently, and without any discernible accent;

Can be thoughtful and polite;

Possibly volatile when angered, carries a grudge;

A Caucasian male who was 35 years old or more in 1971 (79 years+ nowadays);

Possible military background, likely combat hardened;

Connected somehow with the Pacific Northwest;

Possible working knowledge of the French language;

Possibly connected with Canada and likely able to pass freely back and forth across the border (i.e. lacking criminal record).


On the “Bing Crosby” composite without sunglasses, there is some kind of shading, or so it would seem, on the bridge of the nose on the left side.  Is this some kind of shading by the sketch artist to indicate a mole or some other mark? I understand witnesses described Cooper as having no distinguishing marks or tattoos.  The age enhanced composite or “B” composite without sunglasses does not appear to have a similar feature.

The high forehead on the Bing composites seems somewhat laterally compressed with a hint of some form of raised bumps about mid-level, however, the B composite appears to show a somewhat more symmetrical forehead. 

There appears to be no description of his hands, which would have been the only other exposed skin surface visible to the various witnesses.  I’m curious if his hands were beefy, boney or somewhere in-between.  Was there anything released publically whether he was right or left handed, or ambidextrous?

If Cooper had a grudge before the skyjack, it would not be a stretch to think that grudge would have been amplified when the realization that the cash was marked set-in.  Good enough reason to write a book and try to at least get some royalties for the effort of it all.  Looking for a really angry old man getting royalty cheques might help.

The cash was marked ?  Gray claimed this but never explained. Have you a reference to this other than Gray? Other than the serial numbers and each bill being photographed (as explai9ned at length elsewhere) how was it marked?

As for the rest of your questions above, I dont think anyone here can address them. You would have to put these questions to the FBI and at this point I seriously doubt even they could answer these questions ?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 03:16:21 AM by georger »
 

Offline 377

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #821 on: March 08, 2016, 12:28:23 PM »
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The cadmium plated harness hardware on the NB8 rig, the ripcord pin cones,  the riser connector links and (stainless steel?) ripcord cable tube could literally survive for centuries.

A long time ago I posted info about submerged unopened WW2 parachutes found 70 years later in great shape.

If above ground, UV would likely destroy all the nylon stuff eventually, but some of the metal parts could last a long long time.

The flexible segmented cable tube is very distinctive and if found with other hardware might cause further inquiry and subsequent identification as parachute gear.

377

As much as I LOVE you, 377, you drive me crazy with your persistence with the NB-6/NB-8 stuff. Whaddabout Hayden's Steinthaul Pioneer?

You got me Bruce. That rig too.

I still admire the work you did on chute types and ownership. You took commonly accepted "truths", did some feet on the street work, and blew Cossey's chute ownership story to pieces.

I wish you could contact Norman and see if he used the metals found on the "Cooper tie" in his machine shop. Pure titanium, bismuth, aluminum, etc. I have always wondered if Norman's rigs had traces of these metals on them from being carried through his machine shop. If the tie was Coopers and if the tie contacted the metal contaminated rigs, it might explain what Tom and Al found in the lab work.

What do you think?

377
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #822 on: March 08, 2016, 01:39:08 PM »
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The cadmium plated harness hardware on the NB8 rig, the ripcord pin cones,  the riser connector links and (stainless steel?) ripcord cable tube could literally survive for centuries.

A long time ago I posted info about submerged unopened WW2 parachutes found 70 years later in great shape.

If above ground, UV would likely destroy all the nylon stuff eventually, but some of the metal parts could last a long long time.

The flexible segmented cable tube is very distinctive and if found with other hardware might cause further inquiry and subsequent identification as parachute gear.

377

As much as I LOVE you, 377, you drive me crazy with your persistence with the NB-6/NB-8 stuff. Whaddabout Hayden's Steinthaul Pioneer?

You got me Bruce. That rig too.

I still admire the work you did on chute types and ownership. You took commonly accepted "truths", did some feet on the street work, and blew Cossey's chute ownership story to pieces.

I wish you could contact Norman and see if he used the metals found on the "Cooper tie" in his machine shop. Pure titanium, bismuth, aluminum, etc. I have always wondered if Norman's rigs had traces of these metals on them from being carried through his machine shop. If the tie was Coopers and if the tie contacted the metal contaminated rigs, it might explain what Tom and Al found in the lab work.

What do you think?

377

Those particles are the Gorilla in the Closet. Sailshaw says they were readily available in Peterson's environment. They were available in somebody's environment.   
 

Offline 377

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #823 on: March 08, 2016, 02:13:31 PM »
You gotta stay skeptical in the Cooper Vortex. Bias creeps in despite best efforts and good intentions. NOBODY, so far, can put ANY SUSPECT on the plane.

377

 

Offline 377

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Another unsolved air mystery
« Reply #824 on: March 08, 2016, 02:28:59 PM »
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This one has always fascinated me. What did these pilots observe? What caused the huge mushroom cloud?

377
« Last Edit: March 08, 2016, 02:35:42 PM by 377 »