Author Topic: General Questions About The Case  (Read 775163 times)

Offline 377

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1596
  • Thanked: 443 times
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #765 on: November 02, 2015, 12:37:49 PM »
Neither of the main rigs had D Rings for attaching a reserve. How do you think he fastened the reserve chute if he took it?

You are right, using a reserve to lower yourself from a tree landing is taught to smoke jumpers.

In my skydiver training they advised us to just wait until help arrived if we landed in a tree, that trying to go down your deployed reserve lines could end up in a bad fall.

377
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #766 on: November 02, 2015, 03:12:59 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Neither of the main rigs had D Rings for attaching a reserve. How do you think he fastened the reserve chute if he took it?

You are right, using a reserve to lower yourself from a tree landing is taught to smoke jumpers.

In my skydiver training they advised us to just wait until help arrived if we landed in a tree, that trying to go down your deployed reserve lines could end up in a bad fall.

377

That was an option if he could attach it. But of course there is no way to prove that is what he did - unless you found both chutes together in the same place, which has never happened. And if that is what happened (if the chutes had been found together) that would nail a 'north of Portland' drop point! And that would mean real problems for any natural explanation for the money find!

People have searched and searched for these chutes. The Amboy chute is the only chute to surface. And trust problems with Cossey are now on the table. The hell of this is: telling the difference btwn silk and nylon is child's play (anyone can do it!) so typing the Amboy chute as silk may have been done irrespective of any input from Cossey.

Nothing is easy in this case! 
 

Offline 377

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1596
  • Thanked: 443 times
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #767 on: November 02, 2015, 07:19:30 PM »
If the riser attachment fittings are still on the Amboy chute risers they could tell us a lot about what kind of rig it may have been attached to.

I don't think it was Cooper's chute but I haven't  seen it up close, just photos and descriptions. Looks like twill material to me and therefore unlikely to have been used in a 1971 setting as an FAA legal emergency chute. Trusting your life to twill when good ripstop C-9s were available dirt cheap would have been insane. Airworthy C 9s were super cheap back then. I saw a bunch of them (looked like about 100 canopies) for $25 each, in perfect condition with lines and risers, at a University of Calif surplus sale in Richmond CA in the early 70s. I have no idea what UC was doing with them. Normal C-9 pricing back then was between $75 and $150 depending on who was selling them

Cossey was a joker about Norjack chutes, so you can't take everything he said as a fact. Bruce doesn't think you can take ANYTHING Cossey said as a fact.

377

 

georger

  • Guest
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #768 on: November 03, 2015, 12:04:03 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
If the riser attachment fittings are still on the Amboy chute risers they could tell us a lot about what kind of rig it may have been attached to.

I don't think it was Cooper's chute but I haven't  seen it up close, just photos and descriptions. Looks like twill material to me and therefore unlikely to have been used in a 1971 setting as an FAA legal emergency chute. Trusting your life to twill when good ripstop C-9s were available dirt cheap would have been insane. Airworthy C 9s were super cheap back then. I saw a bunch of them (looked like about 100 canopies) for $25 each, in perfect condition with lines and risers, at a University of Calif surplus sale in Richmond CA in the early 70s. I have no idea what UC was doing with them. Normal C-9 pricing back then was between $75 and $150 depending on who was selling them

Cossey was a joker about Norjack chutes, so you can't take everything he said as a fact. Bruce doesn't think you can take ANYTHING Cossey said as a fact.

377

Bruce seems to want to throw the baby out with the bath water ?

Cossey was not the black or white figure some are trying to paint him; that seems apparent by the record of his life and the respect a lot of people had for him, coming from many walks of life. 
« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 01:21:57 AM by georger »
 

Offline sailshaw

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
  • Thanked: 4 times
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #769 on: November 03, 2015, 09:51:02 AM »
377  You say: "NB8 with 28 ft C9 surplus canopy."

That is my vote Too! based upon Norm Haden's description of the chute he provided. Or DB could have cut four one ft chunks of parachute cord to tie the "front" chute on to the NB8 carrier that he used.

Bob Sailshaw
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #770 on: November 03, 2015, 01:56:08 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
377  You say: "NB8 with 28 ft C9 surplus canopy."

That is my vote Too! based upon Norm Haden's description of the chute he provided. Or DB could have cut four one ft chunks of parachute cord to tie the "front" chute on to the NB8 carrier that he used.

Bob Sailshaw
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

My God! Three of us agree about something!

 :)
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
  • Thanked: 465 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #771 on: November 03, 2015, 07:02:05 PM »
Sail, when did Norm tell you he supplied an NB-8? He told me he provided two identical Pioneers with 26' Steinthauls.

377 - so you're going with Cossey and his NB-8 scenario?
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
  • Thanked: 465 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #772 on: November 03, 2015, 07:08:32 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
[ Bruce doesn't think you can take ANYTHING Cossey said as a fact.

377
****
Bruce seems to want to throw the baby out with the bath water ?

Not exactly. I want to dive into the bath water with Cossey and find out who is adding the soap.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2015, 07:09:00 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
  • Thanked: 465 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #773 on: November 03, 2015, 07:10:01 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Bruce doesn't think you can take ANYTHING Cossey said as a fact.

377

Pretty much. You?
 

Offline 377

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1596
  • Thanked: 443 times
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #774 on: November 03, 2015, 07:46:37 PM »
Cossey really was a parachute expert, but you often had no way to know whether he was BSing or telling the truth... so he is what we lawyers refer to as an unreliable witness.

Bruce, how about querying Norman whether he used pure titanium in his machine shop and whether he also used bismuth (sometimes contained in machining lubricants). Ask him if his chutes may have been exposed to these metals (either by being in proximity to the shop or by his handling of them after being in the shop). Also ask about turned aluminum shavings. Show him TK's tie findings and ask if those materials might have been used in his shop. If the tie was Coopers and it got these metals from Norman's rigs we cant assume anything about Coopers use of these materials in his work.

377
 

Offline sailshaw

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 220
  • Thanked: 4 times
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #775 on: November 04, 2015, 09:40:50 AM »
377  You say:   "Bruce, how about querying Norman whether he used pure titanium in his machine shop and whether he also used bismuth (sometimes contained in machining lubricants)."

I say all the things found on DB's tie were available from the Scrap Tub Skids around the outside of the M & P Lab (Materials and Processing Lab) just below Sheridan's Office 2nd floor of the 9-101 Building at Boeing. That is where DB/Sheridan would have picked up the things found on the DB tie. Looking into the tub skids, his tie would have fallen into scrap (as did mine) and picked-up all that was found on the tie. This would have been the only place at Boeing where all the things would have been found and in the N.W. too! The things on the DB tie all point directly at where Sheridan worked at Boeing. End of the story and is very good evidence in my mind.

Bob Sailshaw
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #776 on: November 04, 2015, 12:58:24 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
377  You say:   "Bruce, how about querying Norman whether he used pure titanium in his machine shop and whether he also used bismuth (sometimes contained in machining lubricants)."

I say all the things found on DB's tie were available from the Scrap Tub Skids around the outside of the M & P Lab (Materials and Processing Lab) just below Sheridan's Office 2nd floor of the 9-101 Building at Boeing. That is where DB/Sheridan would have picked up the things found on the DB tie. Looking into the tub skids, his tie would have fallen into scrap (as did mine) and picked-up all that was found on the tie. This would have been the only place at Boeing where all the things would have been found and in the N.W. too! The things on the DB tie all point directly at where Sheridan worked at Boeing. End of the story and is very good evidence in my mind.

Bob Sailshaw
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Will there be a Peterson Revival at the Auburn Theatre this year?

 
 

Offline andrade1812

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 624
  • Thanked: 144 times
    • My Website
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #777 on: November 04, 2015, 02:03:13 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
377  You say:   "Bruce, how about querying Norman whether he used pure titanium in his machine shop and whether he also used bismuth (sometimes contained in machining lubricants)."

I say all the things found on DB's tie were available from the Scrap Tub Skids around the outside of the M & P Lab (Materials and Processing Lab) just below Sheridan's Office 2nd floor of the 9-101 Building at Boeing. That is where DB/Sheridan would have picked up the things found on the DB tie. Looking into the tub skids, his tie would have fallen into scrap (as did mine) and picked-up all that was found on the tie. This would have been the only place at Boeing where all the things would have been found and in the N.W. too! The things on the DB tie all point directly at where Sheridan worked at Boeing. End of the story and is very good evidence in my mind.

Bob Sailshaw
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

If you still have those ties, I'm sure Tom Kaye would be willing to see just what kind of material got on them as a comparison.
 

Offline 377

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1596
  • Thanked: 443 times
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #778 on: November 04, 2015, 05:45:01 PM »
Really good point Andrade1812!!

Sailshaw, most engineers don't throw out their long out-of-fashion ties. How do I know? I still have a bunch of those old 60s and early 70s skinny ties myself as do many of my EE friends. Surely you must have a couple that  dipped into the Boeing scrap bins. Lets get them analysed.

If their metal load matches that found on Cooper's alleged tie, I'd say Sheridan Peterson has some serious splaining to do.

377

 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
  • Thanked: 465 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #779 on: November 04, 2015, 07:14:04 PM »
Oh, no, not those skinny ties from the 60s. I'm starting to have flash backs to my ol' Catholic Boys School, Chaminade.