Author Topic: General Questions About The Case  (Read 775133 times)

Offline 377

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1596
  • Thanked: 443 times
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #705 on: September 14, 2015, 01:07:12 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
305 left Seattle at 7::33 approx after landing at 5:45pm. We know that shortly after landing Tina retrieved the money, passengers were allowed to leave, the chutes came on, and according to the stews Cooper put on a back pack shortly after that and began stripping out a small chute of its cordage trying to fabricate a carrier for the money. All of this long before 7:33pm. Presumably Cooper has a back pack on through the long refueling and during his period of preparation ???

Did Cooper sit with the back pack on during this period?  Did he stand?   Can one sit on one of these 727 seats_with a large backpack parachute on?  Can someone enlighten me? Or did Cooper stand the whole time after putting on the large back pack? I can find no testimony which clarifies this. Conceivably Cooper had a back pack on while on the plane for approximately 2.0 hours?
\

When I jumped from the ex SAS DC 9-21 in 2006 all jumpers were seated in normal passenger seats with their gear on. It wasn't too uncomfortable.

377
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #706 on: September 19, 2015, 05:00:15 PM »
Am a bit shocked and dismayed that the NEW files have provoked so little response. I guess people knew it all, had it all - already? Or it doesn't matter - doesn't fit the standard agenda of drama and drum signals through the Cooper forest?

Would brand new data on the brand new Hominid Species found in So Afrika help? That D4DR population who survived by grit and determination on the primeval savannah having just come down from the trees in search of a Cooper Project to think about?

Did Cooper arrive on the Titanic? I'll bet the Foremans and JT know!   
 :D

If no Cooper shoes were found does that mean he died with his boots on!?
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1024 times
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #707 on: September 19, 2015, 05:13:44 PM »
Quote
Am a bit shocked and dismayed that the NEW files have provoked so little response. I guess people knew it all, had it all - already? Or it doesn't matter - doesn't fit the standard agenda of drama and drum signals through the Cooper forest?

I agree, I was set back once they were released and hardly anyone said anything for a while. I kinda thought it would send shock waves, but not much happened... :-\

I did receive several emails about them from members, but the overall response was unexpectedly low..I'll keep pushing on though  8)
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #708 on: September 19, 2015, 05:20:57 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Quote
Am a bit shocked and dismayed that the NEW files have provoked so little response. I guess people knew it all, had it all - already? Or it doesn't matter - doesn't fit the standard agenda of drama and drum signals through the Cooper forest?

I agree, I was set back once they were released and hardly anyone said anything for a while. I kinda thought it would send shock waves, but not much happened... :-\

I did receive several emails about them from members, but the overall response was unexpectedly low..I'll keep pushing on though  8)

I guess people prefer to keep milking the Foreman corpse! It has given about all it can give ?    ;)
 

Offline andrade1812

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 624
  • Thanked: 144 times
    • My Website
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #709 on: September 19, 2015, 11:03:54 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Am a bit shocked and dismayed that the NEW files have provoked so little response. I guess people knew it all, had it all - already? Or it doesn't matter - doesn't fit the standard agenda of drama and drum signals through the Cooper forest?

Would brand new data on the brand new Hominid Species found in So Afrika help? That D4DR population who survived by grit and determination on the primeval savannah having just come down from the trees in search of a Cooper Project to think about?

Did Cooper arrive on the Titanic? I'll bet the Foremans and JT know!   
 :D

If no Cooper shoes were found does that mean he died with his boots on!?

It will take time to absorb and process everything. I printed everything out and started taking notes and making highlights.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4365
  • Thanked: 465 times
    • The Mountain News
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #710 on: September 20, 2015, 05:51:39 PM »
I agree with Andrade; it will take time to process all the information.

One element that keeps it from being really DRAMATIC is that there is no new information that strongly contradicts anyone or the existing narrative of who said what, when, and what they did in response.

If these crew debriefs came out before GG's book, it would have produced more of a wave. Nevertheless, these are important pieces of information and will find their rightful place in the Cooper lexicon. I am considering posting them or some distilled version in my print edition as a reference aide.

I pushed Ayn Dietrich-Williams for more confirmation on them, but she back-peddled and said that the case agent would have to search through thousands of case files to satisfactorily answer my question. Gee, really? I would have thought that the Norjak case agent would have the crew debriefs at his fingertips.
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #711 on: September 21, 2015, 02:07:19 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
I agree with Andrade; it will take time to process all the information.

If these crew debriefs came out before GG's book, it would have produced more of a wave. Nevertheless, these are important pieces of information and will find their rightful place in the Cooper lexicon. I am considering posting them or some distilled version in my print edition as a reference aide.

Obviously the debriefs existed prior to GG or his book. GG told you they looked vaguely familiar?  ;) ;) Maybe GG's book was supposed to supplant the debriefs? Wouldn't that be clever.  :) 
 

Offline Ron and Pat

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #712 on: September 22, 2015, 11:59:20 AM »
Thank you so much for posting the crew notes.  Ron and I have been looking through them ever since.  At one point:
"She (Tina in #5) told him it would be a few minutes longer while they filed a flight plan and he said, "Never mind, they can do that over the radio once we get up. Let's get the show on the road." 
That statement is just one of many that seems to point to D B being a pilot.
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #713 on: September 22, 2015, 01:19:31 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Thank you so much for posting the crew notes.  Ron and I have been looking through them ever since.  At one point:
"She (Tina in #5) told him it would be a few minutes longer while they filed a flight plan and he said, "Never mind, they can do that over the radio once we get up. Let's get the show on the road." 
That statement is just one of many that seems to point to D B being a pilot.

All kinds of people live in and around aviation and know something about how aviation works, without being a pilot. The same applies in every area of life. Remember, FOX News is fair and balanced and knows more than anyone else knows - about everything! Isn't that how some in Cooperland operate?

The most you can say about Cooper is that he gave a lot of orders/requests some of which were technical, and some were true and appropriate, and some of his requests were not true and appropriate. Maybe Cooper had a Boy's Scout Airplane Merit Badge ? Only the Cooper money worms knows.



« Last Edit: September 22, 2015, 01:34:41 PM by georger »
 

Offline Ron and Pat

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #714 on: September 22, 2015, 01:56:46 PM »
Another quote from the new documents:

"Anderson stated that approximately 5 to 10 minutes after the last contact with subject at 8:05 pm, they heard and felt an oscillation of the aircraft and commented that the hijacker could have departed causing the unusual vibration since there had been no change in flight parameters or any other external force which would account for this sudden vibration. They telephoned the company representative ( __________ in ___________) shortly thereafter and stated that the ‘oscillation’ which could have been the hijacker’s departure, would have occurred between 8:05 pm and their call to the company 5 or ten minutes later, the exact time being recorded in the company log. Anderson stated that they had not reached Portland proper but were definitely in the suburbs or immediate vicinity thereof."

This would also coincide with what Barb told us about the jump that night. She stated she went a bit down on the stairs to look for the lights of Portland to start her timing to the jump site, then waited at the top out of the wind to do her timing and wait for the search light from Aurora airport to hit the plane at a 45 degree angle.  Note that with flying in those wind conditions and with that configuration of the airplane, the ride would be quite bumpy.  The pilots would have been more in tune to a slight oscillation in the time directly after the door opened and could easily have missed a second slight oscillation. Or perhaps the second oscillation occurred when there was more buffeting of the plane. 

As we read through these documents we are more convinced than ever that Barb was D B.  The phrases mentioned, the offering of the money, the point where Tina says he shows a sense of humor, all sound exactly like the Barb we knew.   
 

Offline nmiwrecks

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 387
  • Thanked: 3 times
    • MichiganMysteries.com
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #715 on: September 22, 2015, 03:17:25 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Another quote from the new documents:

"Anderson stated that approximately 5 to 10 minutes after the last contact with subject at 8:05 pm, they heard and felt an oscillation of the aircraft and commented that the hijacker could have departed causing the unusual vibration since there had been no change in flight parameters or any other external force which would account for this sudden vibration. They telephoned the company representative ( __________ in ___________) shortly thereafter and stated that the ‘oscillation’ which could have been the hijacker’s departure, would have occurred between 8:05 pm and their call to the company 5 or ten minutes later, the exact time being recorded in the company log. Anderson stated that they had not reached Portland proper but were definitely in the suburbs or immediate vicinity thereof."

This would also coincide with what Barb told us about the jump that night. She stated she went a bit down on the stairs to look for the lights of Portland to start her timing to the jump site, then waited at the top out of the wind to do her timing and wait for the search light from Aurora airport to hit the plane at a 45 degree angle.  Note that with flying in those wind conditions and with that configuration of the airplane, the ride would be quite bumpy.  The pilots would have been more in tune to a slight oscillation in the time directly after the door opened and could easily have missed a second slight oscillation. Or perhaps the second oscillation occurred when there was more buffeting of the plane. 

As we read through these documents we are more convinced than ever that Barb was D B.  The phrases mentioned, the offering of the money, the point where Tina says he shows a sense of humor, all sound exactly like the Barb we knew.
Another interesting item is the tie and tie clasp.  A logical explanation of the clasp being found on the left side is that shirt it was attached to was a women's shirt, with the buttons on the opposite side.

I'm compiling a list of suspects and their attributes for Shutter's website.  Do you know Barb's height, weight, hair and eye color and age at the time of the skyjacking event? 
"If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got." - Henry Ford
 

Offline Ron and Pat

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #716 on: September 22, 2015, 06:28:15 PM »
Barb was 5'8".  Her eyes were a bit odd in color, almost a steel gray, but they were listed as blue. Her hair was brown and she would have been 44 at the time of the jump. Her description was what made me initially not believe her story, but the research we did after her death convinced me that I was wrong.

We asked Barb about the discrepancy in height. She told us that she appeared taller because she has a longer torso and appears taller when she is seated.  I remember looking at her at the time she said that.  She was sitting next to Ron. He is 5'9" and Barb appeared to be about 2 inches taller when they were sitting next to each other. 

She told us that she used black shoe polish to darken her hair. We experimented with this on a wig obtained from the Goodwill and the affect was similar to the description given by one of the witnesses that the hair was "black like patent leather shoes". 

Tina stated that the only time she saw Cooper standing was when he went to the lavatory and it's unclear whether she was standing or sitting at the time.  She also stated that she never saw his eyes due to the dark glasses.

There has been a lot of research done on eye witness accounts since the emergence of DNA testing.  Reliable sources say that only one in five eye witness accounts are accurate and it has been proven that the existence of a weapon makes people overestimate weight and height.

With all this, I am surprised that the FBI would use the fact that someone did not match the eye witness accounts as the only reason for eliminating someone.
 

Offline Ron and Pat

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #717 on: September 22, 2015, 06:54:50 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Barb was 5'8".  Her eyes were a bit odd in color, almost a steel gray, but they were listed as blue. Her hair was brown and she would have been 44 at the time of the jump. Her description was what made me initially not believe her story, but the research we did after her death convinced me that I was wrong.

We asked Barb about the discrepancy in height. She told us that she appeared taller because she has a longer torso and appears taller when she is seated.  I remember looking at her at the time she said that.  She was sitting next to Ron. He is 5'9" and Barb appeared to be about 2 inches taller when they were sitting next to each other. 

She told us that she used black shoe polish to darken her hair. We experimented with this on a wig obtained from the Goodwill and the affect was similar to the description given by one of the witnesses that the hair was "black like patent leather shoes". 

Tina stated that the only time she saw Cooper standing was when he went to the lavatory and it's unclear whether she was standing or sitting at the time.  She also stated that she never saw his eyes due to the dark glasses.

There has been a lot of research done on eye witness accounts since the emergence of DNA testing.  Reliable sources say that only one in five eye witness accounts are accurate and it has been proven that the existence of a weapon makes people overestimate weight and height.

With all this, I am surprised that the FBI would use the fact that someone did not match the eye witness accounts as the only reason for eliminating someone.

Should also mention that the 5'8" was the height from when Barb joined the Merchant Marines at the age of 17.  When standing next to Ron she appeared to be the same height so we have always called her 5'9". 
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1024 times
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #718 on: September 22, 2015, 08:31:14 PM »
Lets not gloss over this green paper bag thingy, what could that be?
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #719 on: September 23, 2015, 12:43:12 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Lets not gloss over this green paper bag thingy, what could that be?

So where did "small brown paper bag" come from, and go to? Now it turns out to be green? How did it get to be brown, if it was green ? Somebody was color blind?

What stores in the Portland area sold things in green paper bags? Hardware store?
« Last Edit: September 23, 2015, 01:52:42 AM by georger »