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Robb said he tumbled hard for about 15 seconds once he hit the slipstream, which occurred a few moments after he jumped.

Also, remember he was going at least 300 mph.

If jumping from the end of the aft stairs of a 727, you would hit the slipstream in no more than one second.  I believe the 300 MPH guy actually jumped from a side fuselage exit and he would be contacting the slipstream as soon as any part of his body was more than 3 or 4 inches from the outside of the fuselage.

Side fuselage exit?

Robb's plane was a 727. What side exit?

I believe the fellow who jumped over Indiana did so from a DC-10 and it was the one which was going 300 MPH.  The Captain added about another 100 MPH to the aircraft's speed at jump time just for the heck of it.  May as well give the hijacker some thrills.

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Georger wrote:

Quote

Himmelsbach and Jerry Thomas are to NORJAK as Albert Einstein and Rutherford were to Physics, according to MR. Thomas!

I liken Jerry more to Hahn than Rutherford. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

I really enjoyed meeting Jerry and his wife Shelley at the Portland symposium. Despite all our strong disagreement about Cooper's chances of survival (Jerry saying low and me saying high) he greeted me warmly and we had a great time trading opposing views. He has more credentials than I do to opine as an expert, having been a Special Forces survival instructor, military parachutist etc. I have a lot more jumps than he does but every one was made over a DZ, not one night wilderness landing. He also knows the area over which Cooper jumped and I do not.

Still, I think the chances of Cooper landing alive were high.

377

Jerry is pretty solid on an easterly flight path, and a no pull....I spoke with Jerry several times last week, nice guy.

Did he explain why he has one flight path while the FBI/NWA/USAF has another??

As noted at DZ, he usually avoids the real questions -

For example, he never has explained if Himmelsbach is attached to an east path or how H adopted that stance, if in fact H ever adopted that stance. It may involve something Rataczak said about being 20 miles further east.. to H at H's retirement. All we get from JT is gobblewobble. JT has stated publicly 305 crossed the Columbia over the Troutdale airport - did you ask him about that? What did he say? 

 

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Can any of the people who have made deliberate water jumps answer these questions:

1.  Will a back pack or reserve pack, completely unopened, float by itself if it lands in water and is not attached to anything?

2.  If so, how long will it float under the above conditions?  It is understood that it will eventually get saturated with water and then sink.   

That's a great question.  I tend to think the chute packs and money bag would be negatively buoyant after the air is forced out of them.  The Cooper suspects body would probably be negatively buoyant also, because the impact would drive the air from his lungs and because of his body type.  It sounds like he didn't have much body fat, and muscle is about 3 time denser than fat, so in short, muscle tends to sink and fat tends to float.

We do need to find out if the chute packs are buoyant though.

minor point, and I'm not an expert, but I suspect the bolded part would depend on the orientation of the torso on impact. 

the cross section of your rib cage is roughly elliptical, as viewed along the vertical axis (i.e., in the direction parallel to your spine).  if you land flat on your back or front, then, I agree, the impact would force the air out of your lungs.  it further flattens that elliptical cross section, thus decreasing the volume of the lungs, and pressing the air out.  but if you land on your side, you squeeze the ellipse into a shape closer to circular, with larger cross sectional area, thus increasing the volume of the lungs, and sucking air in.

for an illustration of what I'm talking about that is of questionable merit and relevance but is at least adorable, read about the physical therapy treatments for flat chested kitten syndrome:   You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

as to what happens when you impact with your head or feet, it seems complicated and hard to predict what effect there might be on air in your lungs. guessing it tends to reduce your lung volume, but depends on how much the intervening parts of the body absorb the shock (by being damaged...).  also in this case you're probably "piercing" the water like a diver, rather than "smacking" into it as you would in the other orientations, thus spreading out the deceleration in time and reducing the instantaneous force.

or, at least, that's how it all works when I picture it in my head.

   

This was all discussed on DZ.

At terminal v the difference between water vs ground is negligible. The angle at which the body encountered water would make some difference ... but from the examples of people jumping off tall bridges etc.  death ensues in the vast majority of cases.

As for your anatomy lesson:  The body by weight is roughly 65% water; all organs are mostly fluids separated by thin cellular membranes.  When the body impacts something hard, that force is transferred to everything in the body cavity and everything from the walls of vessels to the walls of organs and cells can rupture. This happens in auto accidents all the time. At velocities like terminal v. that outcome is assured on a  massive scale.  At a terminal v impact, the whole internal cavity of the body would fill up with fluids including the lungs, so the question of whether there would be air left in the lungs or not, is a mute point!  The lungs as a viable structure would cease to exist!

The answer is all air would be expelled instantly and replaced by body fluids. The only air holding cavity would be the chest and abdominal cavity likely punctured by bones and bone fragments forced through the sack of the skin, then that cavity would fill up with water ... you get the picture.

The car crash that killed Princess Diana in 1997 was estimated to range somewhere between 70–100 g's. Her autopsy noted massive organ and connecting tissue damage, her lungs and chest cavity full of fluid and torn from the chest walls, and the g-force pulled the pulmonary artery from her heart.

First I heard.

The Indiana guy was Marty McNally, and it was a 727.

Same with 300-MPG-Guy, Robb Heady, a 727. It was not flying dirty, like Cooper, and was having a normal take-off from Reno. Hence, an estimated 300-350 mph, 20 minutes after wheels up.

Side-Exit Guy might have Paul Cini, who is reported to have hijacked a DC-8, with its rear, side-exit hatch.  GG says it was a DC-9, but GG does get a fact wrong every now and then.....  Hence, I go with Koerner, Far Flung, and the newspapers who say a DC-8. BTW, Paulie never jumped, but if he did had, he would have run the risk of a body-strike against the elevators. 377 says a bunch of guys did that when they jumped an "8."

I think you misquoted me Bruce. No sport jumps were made from DC 8s AKAIK, but there have been plenty of horizontal stabilizer strikes from side exits done at high speeds from King Air 90s and other similarly configured jumpships.

How's the book selling?

377

Hello and please excuse my intrusion. Has anyone considered Carson or Stevenson ? 

Welcome NJ71, can you be a little more specific about those names?

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First I heard.

The Indiana guy was Marty McNally, and it was a 727.

Same with 300-MPG-Guy, Robb Heady, a 727. It was not flying dirty, like Cooper, and was having a normal take-off from Reno. Hence, an estimated 300-350 mph, 20 minutes after wheels up.

Side-Exit Guy might have Paul Cini, who is reported to have hijacked a DC-8, with its rear, side-exit hatch.  GG says it was a DC-9, but GG does get a fact wrong every now and then.....  Hence, I go with Koerner, Far Flung, and the newspapers who say a DC-8. BTW, Paulie never jumped, but if he did had, he would have run the risk of a body-strike against the elevators. 377 says a bunch of guys did that when they jumped an "8."

I think you misquoted me Bruce. No sport jumps were made from DC 8s AKAIK, but there have been plenty of horizontal stabilizer strikes from side exits done at high speeds from King Air 90s and other similarly configured jumpships.

How's the book selling?

377

30 copies sold at last counting.  But where's my royalty check?!

Gotcha on the DC-8 and King side exits. I had misunderstood your comments back when...

 Book Discussion About DB Cooper

Started by Shutter « 1 2 3 4 »

I'm sorry, Carson and Stevenson Washington. Meaning "Mr.Cooper's" destination.

Do you realize how far off the flight path those area's are?

Do you mean where he ended up?