Author Topic: General Questions About The Case (Read 838960 times)

Robert99 · « **Reply #2820 on:** December 15, 2020, 11:54:26 PM »

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I fail to see any reasoning for the FAA to even be around? wasn't called the FAA at the time, was it?

Decades previously, what is now the FAA (Federal Aviation Agency) was known as the CAA (Civil Aeronautics Administration) if I remember correctly.

Shutter · « **Reply #2821 on:** December 16, 2020, 11:08:20 AM »

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I fail to see any reasoning for the FAA to even be around? wasn't called the FAA at the time, was it?

Decades previously, what is now the FAA (Federal Aviation Agency) was known as the CAA (Civil Aeronautics Administration) if I remember correctly.

It's a little confusing because the CAA split into the CAB as well.

Still not sure exactly what administration was in place. typically, you make the correction when discussing something decades ago. "the FAA was known as the CAA back in that period"

Update: the FAA was the proper term in 1971. it's noted in the transcripts being involved in the conference calls..

Shutter · « **Reply #2822 on:** December 16, 2020, 11:27:47 AM »

Quote

I have no idea why an FAA official would want to board the plane, or even be allowed by the FBI. I have no corroboration on that happenstance, either. Personally, I assume the "FAA" story is a spin job to cover for the presence of an FBI agent aboard 305.

It just doesn't make any sense for any type of aviation administration putting themselves into something they are not trained for or authorized to do. if you don't have any agreement with a suspect to enter a hostage situation you are asking for trouble. big trouble. would of been better off just rushing him vs trying to get close. I think they were a little bit cautious from what happened with November 58.

4:12 Cooper says if anything hinders things he will detonate the bomb.
4:38 he allows any vehicles needed "as long as no funny stuff"
5:01 No stalling and start fueling, stew to pickup money.

Shutter · « **Reply #2823 on:** January 04, 2021, 05:24:39 PM »

I finally got a response from McNally about the stairs..will post his response in a couple minutes..

Monday 3:40 p.m. Stairs----I had the co-pilot open it. He was worried he'd be sucked out and jumped 6' forward as soon as he pushed the lever. I told him I wanted the plane moving at 500 ground speed. He said at that speed I couldn't get out. So he talked to the pilot on the phone to have him adjust speed until it was open 3'. When I was ready to go, I very carefully slowly went down feet first on my ass. When I got to the second stair, I put both legs down to see the push as wind moved the legs. Then I slowly moved my body so that I was facing down.....and eased my body out until I was holding on only by both hands. Then looked up into the plane and thought that if they knew I was in this position they could easily shot me. Then I released my hands and moved away from the plane and was going down feet first at 300 mph. Somehow, don't know how, my body was facing Earth as my hands and legs were out as I flew down. Thought, this is balls. As I was getting ready to pull the ripcord I moved my right arm slowly....and because I left my left arm extended.... I went into a panic spin..... don't remember pulling the ripcord.... chute opened 2' and hit me in the face !!!! Then I slapped my left arm to left leg to make sure I had the mail bag.....it was gone. Pissed me off and I came very close to releasing the harness to end my life. But I quickly decided, the money can be replaced and I'll do it again within 2 weeks. Was working on that when I got arrested on June 28, 1972. Fucking "friends" ratted me out fast. Any questions, just ask. Have a nice day.

Martin McNally

Shutter · « **Reply #2824 on:** January 04, 2021, 05:39:14 PM »

I'm going to see if he is will to do a podcast with Darren. I told him I would ask him a while back. I wanted to get to know Martin as a person first. we have been emailing since May of 2020. he's a character, that's for sure. I've shared some of his emails in the past. hopefully, he will agree and do the podcast.

Shutter · « **Reply #2825 on:** January 04, 2021, 06:36:02 PM »

I think it was Dudeman who stated it probably wasn't a glorious thing jumping off the stairs. no going down backwards or pulling on the bottom of the stairs. he went down on his ass carefully working his way down. even a hardened criminal didn't go like it was nothing or without fear. In a podcast several years ago he explains it about the same. he didn't mention the googles getting ripped off his face. he was a trooper, ready to do it again weeks later...

Bruce A. Smith · « **Reply #2826 on:** January 04, 2021, 08:43:05 PM »

Meals and Maps

Anybody know how the meals, maps and other stuff requested for the pilots got aboard Flight 305? Who brought them onboard? Were they delivered to the forward door? Did Tina retrieve them?

Eric and I had a wonderful conversation today about how many trips Tina Mucklow made outside the plane. I'm saying three - one each for the mains, and one for the reserves. "Two Men" brought the money onboard, according to a few passengers.

But the meals? Was that a fourth trip out; a fifth?

Robert99 · « **Reply #2827 on:** January 04, 2021, 10:11:16 PM »

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Meals and Maps

Anybody know how the meals, maps and other stuff requested for the pilots got aboard Flight 305? Who brought them onboard? Were they delivered to the forward door? Did Tina retrieve them?

Eric and I had a wonderful conversation today about how many trips Tina Mucklow made outside the plane. I'm saying three - one each for the mains, and one for the reserves. "Two Men" brought the money onboard, according to a few passengers.

But the meals? Was that a fourth trip out; a fifth?

Tina reportedly brought everything onboard including a box containing the meals and maps plus all four parachutes and the money bag.

Apparently Alice was standing by the forward passenger door when Tina brought the box with the meals and maps onboard and saw the maps and assumed Cooper had asked for them. In any event, Alice's remarks during her debriefing in Seattle is the only mention by anyone that Cooper asked for the maps.

Al Lee is the one who got the four meals and the maps for the trip south together. Lee and the Seattle detective are also the only two people, other than the refueling crews of one person per truck, who are reported to have been near the airliner.

The witnesses apparently meant that two men brought the money to (not onto) the aircraft. It would have been the ultimate in stupidity for others to try to board the aircraft when Cooper had expressly been told that NWA would cooperate with him.

Shutter · « **Reply #2828 on:** January 04, 2021, 11:06:33 PM »

Lets not forget the pilots would have seen them board the plane..

Bruce A. Smith · « **Reply #2829 on:** January 05, 2021, 04:29:57 AM »

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Meals and Maps

Anybody know how the meals, maps and other stuff requested for the pilots got aboard Flight 305? Who brought them onboard? Were they delivered to the forward door? Did Tina retrieve them?

Eric and I had a wonderful conversation today about how many trips Tina Mucklow made outside the plane. I'm saying three - one each for the mains, and one for the reserves. "Two Men" brought the money onboard, according to a few passengers.

But the meals? Was that a fourth trip out; a fifth?

Tina reportedly brought everything onboard including a box containing the meals and maps plus all four parachutes and the money bag.

Apparently Alice was standing by the forward passenger door when Tina brought the box with the meals and maps onboard and saw the maps and assumed Cooper had asked for them. In any event, Alice's remarks during her debriefing in Seattle is the only mention by anyone that Cooper asked for the maps.

Al Lee is the one who got the four meals and the maps for the trip south together. Lee and the Seattle detective are also the only two people, other than the refueling crews of one person per truck, who are reported to have been near the airliner.

The witnesses apparently meant that two men brought the money to (not onto) the aircraft. It would have been the ultimate in stupidity for others to try to board the aircraft when Cooper had expressly been told that NWA would cooperate with him.

So Tina got the meals before the money? Alice and Flo were both gone right after the money, leaving with the passengers essentially.

BTW, Robert, the passengers I spoke with were very specific and detailed about what they saw. I think it's incorrect, or at least unfair, to tell us what you think they saw.

Simply, the narratives from the crew differ from the passengers. The Big Question is why.

Robert99 · « **Reply #2830 on:** January 05, 2021, 10:27:21 AM »

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Meals and Maps

Anybody know how the meals, maps and other stuff requested for the pilots got aboard Flight 305? Who brought them onboard? Were they delivered to the forward door? Did Tina retrieve them?

Eric and I had a wonderful conversation today about how many trips Tina Mucklow made outside the plane. I'm saying three - one each for the mains, and one for the reserves. "Two Men" brought the money onboard, according to a few passengers.

But the meals? Was that a fourth trip out; a fifth?

Tina reportedly brought everything onboard including a box containing the meals and maps plus all four parachutes and the money bag.

Apparently Alice was standing by the forward passenger door when Tina brought the box with the meals and maps onboard and saw the maps and assumed Cooper had asked for them. In any event, Alice's remarks during her debriefing in Seattle is the only mention by anyone that Cooper asked for the maps.

Al Lee is the one who got the four meals and the maps for the trip south together. Lee and the Seattle detective are also the only two people, other than the refueling crews of one person per truck, who are reported to have been near the airliner.

The witnesses apparently meant that two men brought the money to (not onto) the aircraft. It would have been the ultimate in stupidity for others to try to board the aircraft when Cooper had expressly been told that NWA would cooperate with him.

So Tina got the meals before the money? Alice and Flo were both gone right after the money, leaving with the passengers essentially.

BTW, Robert, the passengers I spoke with were very specific and detailed about what they saw. I think it's incorrect, or at least unfair, to tell us what you think they saw.

Simply, the narratives from the crew differ from the passengers. The Big Question is why.

Bruce, I didn't say Tina got the meals before the money and I don't believe Flo and Alice left before the passengers.

The answer to your Big Question is at least one of those narratives is wrong.

EU · « **Reply #2831 on:** January 05, 2021, 11:17:57 AM »

The way it is portrayed in the FBI files is as follows:

Trip 1) Get the money. After which the passengers were released.

Trips 2, 3 & 4) Get the four parachutes.

Trip 5) Get the plates and meals...perhaps radio too?

The most important part of this process relates to the money and specifically what the passengers told Bruce about its delivery.

Also, the passenger manifest--on NWO letterhead shown in Part 2 of the Harrison files on Shutter's site--is apparently incorrect according to Bruce in that it lists three people with the last name McPhearson. According to Scott McPhearson, in an interview with Bruce, the FBI made a mistake listing three McPhearson's and that "S. McPhearson" and "Scott McPhearson" are the same person listed twice. This would mean that 305 carried 36 passengers including DBC, not 37 as shown on the NWO letterhead manifest.

With all of this in mind, I have to ask: If they can't even get the damn passenger manifest right, why the fuck are they viewed as infallible when it comes to something as big and complicated as the flight path?

Oh, let us also not forget the Palmer Report fiasco which was a colossal fuck up in that Palmer identified the 1970 dredge on Tena Bar as the 1974 dredge on Tena Bar which of course had major implications with respect to the timing of the money arriving at Tena Bar.

It's important to note these errors and consider that there may be many more--i.e., FBI Flight Path.

Cheers!

Shutter · « **Reply #2832 on:** January 05, 2021, 11:50:58 AM »

Quote

With all of this in mind, I have to ask: If they can't even get the damn passenger manifest right, why the fuck are they viewed as infallible when it comes to something as big and complicated as the flight path?

You are looking at things in it's totality and doesn't reflect one general thing. the Air Force has nothing to do with the amount of passengers or who got on the plane first or last. The FBI has nothing to do with the flight path other than what was given to them. Northwest is the one who made the manifest. I doubt the FBI fact checked the document. it's not even relevant to them. they have a list themselves from the interviews. they know exactly who was on the plane. no press conference needed to correct NWO.

The FBI has to rely on what is given to them. have they made mistakes, they certainly have. it's nothing new in investigations.

The biggest misconception with the flight path is constantly saying people believe it's infallible. many claim it's close or somewhere in the area shown, even pretty accurate is stated by some. I don't recall anyone saying it's perfect or infallible. I've stated many times over the years that it could be pretty close and never made any claim it was infallible.

Bruce A. Smith · « **Reply #2833 on:** January 05, 2021, 05:07:02 PM »

As for the passenger list, there is one version that can be assumed to be 100% accurate and that is the one the FBI agent on the bus used to roll-call everyone. But where is that list?

Also, one can further assume that NWO had all the 305 tix and boarding passes. Did a list from that pile get compiled?

All of this makes me wonder why the "official" manifest is wrong - official in the sense that it is published on NWO stationery. None of the 302s sort this mess out, either, as far as I can tell.

BTW, the NWO and the FBI both misspell Mac Pherson. Scott told me that "Mc" is incorrect. Also, no "a" in Pherson. Again, other simple but telling mental errors.

There are other misspellings, as well. The NWO manifest spells WJ Murphy as Murphey, and Jack Almstad's name with an added “e,” Almstead.

Further, GG spells Georger Kurata's name different than NWO, which lists this passenger as Georger Kurota, with an “o.” I believe GG has it correct, Kurata.

Bruce A. Smith · « **Reply #2834 on:** January 05, 2021, 05:09:36 PM »

Robert, since you cite Alice seeing Tina bringing the meals and maps onboard and Alice left shortly after the money came onboard and before the parachutes, I deduced you saying that the meals and maps came onboard before the money and chutes.

No? Are you saying something else?

It is my understanding that Alice and Flo left after the money came onboard and the passengers deplaned. Not sure why they didn't hitch a ride on the bus, as I hear they got a ride with a fuel truck - I assume the "air lock" one, after it got bumped and the second one was pulling in.

Author Topic: General Questions About The Case (Read 838960 times)

Robert99

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Shutter

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Bruce A. Smith

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Robert99

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Bruce A. Smith

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Robert99

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EU

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Bruce A. Smith

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Bruce A. Smith

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