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Author Topic: General Questions About The Case  (Read 837643 times)

Offline georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2325 on: March 13, 2020, 05:01:05 AM »
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It doesn't really make sense. the plane they used was a 727 but the stairs were removed for cargo and jumps. they had an arsenal of aircraft for jumping. why use one with the stairs attached?

Exactly couldn’t agree more shutt. That’s why I’m miffed at people who try to explain cooper not knowing how to lower aft stairs and asking they be lowered from the cockpit with having experience with a military version of the 727. There is no evidence or reason for said military version of a 727 with stairs attached to exist.

well,  you must have different docs than I do - there is no record of Cooper asking anyone to lower the stairs from the cockpit ... to be sure the issue came up, after Cooper remarked to Tina the stairs could be lowered from the cockpit after the plane was airborne, but no record he asked the pilot to do it! Tina may have relayed his comment to the pilot and that may have started an exchange - if it did we dont have the details of that except that the pilot commented about it to Flt Ops. There is no record of the pilot telling Tina 'Tell the hijacker we dont have controls in the cockpit to lower the stairs from here . . . '   

For one thing, Cooper never talked directly to the cockpit during that period of time: 18:21- 18:38. I am referring to both the GG docs, the PI Transcript, and the crew interviews.

Cite your passage where Cooper asks the Pilot to lower the stairs, NickyB.    :rofl:   

Here's the two passages from which all the gobblewobble and blowfarb comes from. *Note that one of these passages is between the Pilot and the Ground Control, not between Cooper and the pilot. Again, keep track of the fact everything for and from Cooper is being mediated by ... Tina Mucklow.

Thanks for shedding light on that G, I was just going off what I heard from other people. Nonetheless weather he told Tina they could or asked them to my point remains the same Cooper knew that couldn’t be done and put it out the intent to mislead.

Each to his own propaganda.
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Offline fcastle866

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2326 on: March 13, 2020, 09:46:13 AM »
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It doesn't really make sense. the plane they used was a 727 but the stairs were removed for cargo and jumps. they had an arsenal of aircraft for jumping. why use one with the stairs attached?

Exactly couldn’t agree more shutt. That’s why I’m miffed at people who try to explain cooper not knowing how to lower aft stairs and asking they be lowered from the cockpit with having experience with a military version of the 727. There is no evidence or reason for said military version of a 727 with stairs attached to exist.

well,  you must have different docs than I do - there is no record of Cooper asking anyone to lower the stairs from the cockpit ... to be sure the issue came up, after Cooper remarked to Tina the stairs could be lowered from the cockpit after the plane was airborne, but no record he asked the pilot to do it! Tina may have relayed his comment to the pilot and that may have started an exchange - if it did we dont have the details of that except that the pilot commented about it to Flt Ops. There is no record of the pilot telling Tina 'Tell the hijacker we dont have controls in the cockpit to lower the stairs from here . . . '   

For one thing, Cooper never talked directly to the cockpit during that period of time: 18:21- 18:38. I am referring to both the GG docs, the PI Transcript, and the crew interviews.

Cite your passage where Cooper asks the Pilot to lower the stairs, NickyB.    :rofl:   

Here's the two passages from which all the gobblewobble and blowfarb comes from. *Note that one of these passages is between the Pilot and the Ground Control, not between Cooper and the pilot. Again, keep track of the fact everything for and from Cooper is being mediated by ... Tina Mucklow.

Thanks for shedding light on that G, I was just going off what I heard from other people. Nonetheless weather he told Tina they could or asked them to my point remains the same Cooper knew that couldn’t be done and put it out the intent to mislead.

Each to his own propaganda.

What baffles me is why a multi million dollar passenger plane like the 727 could not have its aft stairs operated from the cockpit.  If you asked 100 people how the rear stairs of that plane were operated, would all 100 say it was only by a handle in the back of the plane and that it was the stewardess or a mechanic that did it?  I say doubtful.  Is it really far fetched to think that those stairs would be activated from the cockpit by a trained pilot versus a stewardess in the back of the plane? 

The whole aft stairs deal is another red herring, just like the Tena Bar money, the lack of an accent, the negotiable currency.  Anyone who walked on a 727 in the 1960's or early 1970's could have seen how those stairs were operated.  The fact that Cooper did not know exactly how they worked shows to me that he did not spend a lot of time on passenger airplanes, and maybe even didn't have much money at all to buy multiple tickets to learn all the steps.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2020, 09:47:38 AM by fcastle866 »
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Offline georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2327 on: March 13, 2020, 12:32:04 PM »
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It doesn't really make sense. the plane they used was a 727 but the stairs were removed for cargo and jumps. they had an arsenal of aircraft for jumping. why use one with the stairs attached?

Exactly couldn’t agree more shutt. That’s why I’m miffed at people who try to explain cooper not knowing how to lower aft stairs and asking they be lowered from the cockpit with having experience with a military version of the 727. There is no evidence or reason for said military version of a 727 with stairs attached to exist.

well,  you must have different docs than I do - there is no record of Cooper asking anyone to lower the stairs from the cockpit ... to be sure the issue came up, after Cooper remarked to Tina the stairs could be lowered from the cockpit after the plane was airborne, but no record he asked the pilot to do it! Tina may have relayed his comment to the pilot and that may have started an exchange - if it did we dont have the details of that except that the pilot commented about it to Flt Ops. There is no record of the pilot telling Tina 'Tell the hijacker we dont have controls in the cockpit to lower the stairs from here . . . '   

For one thing, Cooper never talked directly to the cockpit during that period of time: 18:21- 18:38. I am referring to both the GG docs, the PI Transcript, and the crew interviews.

Cite your passage where Cooper asks the Pilot to lower the stairs, NickyB.    :rofl:   

Here's the two passages from which all the gobblewobble and blowfarb comes from. *Note that one of these passages is between the Pilot and the Ground Control, not between Cooper and the pilot. Again, keep track of the fact everything for and from Cooper is being mediated by ... Tina Mucklow.

Thanks for shedding light on that G, I was just going off what I heard from other people. Nonetheless weather he told Tina they could or asked them to my point remains the same Cooper knew that couldn’t be done and put it out the intent to mislead.

Each to his own propaganda.

What baffles me is why a multi million dollar passenger plane like the 727 could not have its aft stairs operated from the cockpit.  If you asked 100 people how the rear stairs of that plane were operated, would all 100 say it was only by a handle in the back of the plane and that it was the stewardess or a mechanic that did it?  I say doubtful.  Is it really far fetched to think that those stairs would be activated from the cockpit by a trained pilot versus a stewardess in the back of the plane? 

The whole aft stairs deal is another red herring, just like the Tena Bar money, the lack of an accent, the negotiable currency.  Anyone who walked on a 727 in the 1960's or early 1970's could have seen how those stairs were operated.  The fact that Cooper did not know exactly how they worked shows to me that he did not spend a lot of time on passenger airplanes, and maybe even didn't have much money at all to buy multiple tickets to learn all the steps.

What stands out to me is that he is task oriented. He doesn't appear to be the slightest bit afraid of parachuting. He is in charge, one way or another, and constantly moving toward his goal. No deception at all! (Just like the particles on his tie).   
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Offline Robert99

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2328 on: March 13, 2020, 12:36:29 PM »
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It doesn't really make sense. the plane they used was a 727 but the stairs were removed for cargo and jumps. they had an arsenal of aircraft for jumping. why use one with the stairs attached?

Exactly couldn’t agree more shutt. That’s why I’m miffed at people who try to explain cooper not knowing how to lower aft stairs and asking they be lowered from the cockpit with having experience with a military version of the 727. There is no evidence or reason for said military version of a 727 with stairs attached to exist.

well,  you must have different docs than I do - there is no record of Cooper asking anyone to lower the stairs from the cockpit ... to be sure the issue came up, after Cooper remarked to Tina the stairs could be lowered from the cockpit after the plane was airborne, but no record he asked the pilot to do it! Tina may have relayed his comment to the pilot and that may have started an exchange - if it did we dont have the details of that except that the pilot commented about it to Flt Ops. There is no record of the pilot telling Tina 'Tell the hijacker we dont have controls in the cockpit to lower the stairs from here . . . '   

For one thing, Cooper never talked directly to the cockpit during that period of time: 18:21- 18:38. I am referring to both the GG docs, the PI Transcript, and the crew interviews.

Cite your passage where Cooper asks the Pilot to lower the stairs, NickyB.    :rofl:   

Here's the two passages from which all the gobblewobble and blowfarb comes from. *Note that one of these passages is between the Pilot and the Ground Control, not between Cooper and the pilot. Again, keep track of the fact everything for and from Cooper is being mediated by ... Tina Mucklow.

Thanks for shedding light on that G, I was just going off what I heard from other people. Nonetheless weather he told Tina they could or asked them to my point remains the same Cooper knew that couldn’t be done and put it out the intent to mislead.

Each to his own propaganda.

What baffles me is why a multi million dollar passenger plane like the 727 could not have its aft stairs operated from the cockpit.  If you asked 100 people how the rear stairs of that plane were operated, would all 100 say it was only by a handle in the back of the plane and that it was the stewardess or a mechanic that did it?  I say doubtful.  Is it really far fetched to think that those stairs would be activated from the cockpit by a trained pilot versus a stewardess in the back of the plane? 

The whole aft stairs deal is another red herring, just like the Tena Bar money, the lack of an accent, the negotiable currency.  Anyone who walked on a 727 in the 1960's or early 1970's could have seen how those stairs were operated.  The fact that Cooper did not know exactly how they worked shows to me that he did not spend a lot of time on passenger airplanes, and maybe even didn't have much money at all to buy multiple tickets to learn all the steps.

The stairs and all the passenger doors were activated by the stewardesses.  There were lights on the flight engineer's panel to show if the doors/stairs were opened or closed but nothing to control them.  You are correct in saying that this is just another red herring.
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Offline georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2329 on: March 13, 2020, 02:11:30 PM »
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It doesn't really make sense. the plane they used was a 727 but the stairs were removed for cargo and jumps. they had an arsenal of aircraft for jumping. why use one with the stairs attached?

Exactly couldn’t agree more shutt. That’s why I’m miffed at people who try to explain cooper not knowing how to lower aft stairs and asking they be lowered from the cockpit with having experience with a military version of the 727. There is no evidence or reason for said military version of a 727 with stairs attached to exist.

well,  you must have different docs than I do - there is no record of Cooper asking anyone to lower the stairs from the cockpit ... to be sure the issue came up, after Cooper remarked to Tina the stairs could be lowered from the cockpit after the plane was airborne, but no record he asked the pilot to do it! Tina may have relayed his comment to the pilot and that may have started an exchange - if it did we dont have the details of that except that the pilot commented about it to Flt Ops. There is no record of the pilot telling Tina 'Tell the hijacker we dont have controls in the cockpit to lower the stairs from here . . . '   

For one thing, Cooper never talked directly to the cockpit during that period of time: 18:21- 18:38. I am referring to both the GG docs, the PI Transcript, and the crew interviews.

Cite your passage where Cooper asks the Pilot to lower the stairs, NickyB.    :rofl:   

Here's the two passages from which all the gobblewobble and blowfarb comes from. *Note that one of these passages is between the Pilot and the Ground Control, not between Cooper and the pilot. Again, keep track of the fact everything for and from Cooper is being mediated by ... Tina Mucklow.

Thanks for shedding light on that G, I was just going off what I heard from other people. Nonetheless weather he told Tina they could or asked them to my point remains the same Cooper knew that couldn’t be done and put it out the intent to mislead.

Each to his own propaganda.

What baffles me is why a multi million dollar passenger plane like the 727 could not have its aft stairs operated from the cockpit.  If you asked 100 people how the rear stairs of that plane were operated, would all 100 say it was only by a handle in the back of the plane and that it was the stewardess or a mechanic that did it?  I say doubtful.  Is it really far fetched to think that those stairs would be activated from the cockpit by a trained pilot versus a stewardess in the back of the plane? 

The whole aft stairs deal is another red herring, just like the Tena Bar money, the lack of an accent, the negotiable currency.  Anyone who walked on a 727 in the 1960's or early 1970's could have seen how those stairs were operated.  The fact that Cooper did not know exactly how they worked shows to me that he did not spend a lot of time on passenger airplanes, and maybe even didn't have much money at all to buy multiple tickets to learn all the steps.

What red herring conducted by whom for what purpose?  Why does this matter? Why is this important?

 :conspiracy:     Have you tried Lysol to get rid of all of the deceptions and red herrings?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2020, 02:27:04 PM by georger »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2330 on: March 13, 2020, 10:57:35 PM »
The parachute drama seems to never end...

1) 226 is not a "serial number' nor is 9/57
2) the Steinthal mentioned is the canopy itself and not the container and is not included in the evidence sheet.
3) one document states it's a pioneer and the other a Steinthal.
4) most serial numbers are two digit then 5 digit...

i'm still going to try and get WSHS to allow a repack in order to check the canopy on the Hayden chute. I should have an answer next week.

Look at this document again..evidence marked E doesn't mention it was found. only states what was on the packing card. the lower portion is mainly in reference to the canopy and mentions being found on the plane..."evidence E"

evidence F doesn't mention being found on the plane..the lower portion once again explains that..."evidence F"

someone possibly opened the chute in Reno or it had two packing cards and only one got back into the container...
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 12:37:59 AM by Shutter »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2331 on: March 14, 2020, 12:28:49 AM »
I doubt we had anything else other than Hayden's chutes and Cossey's chest packs and a bunch of confused agents writing things down...the first part of the serial numbers also don't always reflect the manufactured year...the pink parachute serial number is 58-53912 and was manufactured in 1959. the serial number doesn't start with 59....
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 12:36:37 AM by Shutter »
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Offline georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2332 on: March 14, 2020, 12:53:52 AM »
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I doubt we had anything else other than Hayden's chutes and Cossey's chest packs and a bunch of confused agents writing things down...the first part of the serial numbers also don't always reflect the manufactured year...the pink parachute serial number is 58-53912 and was manufactured in 1959. the serial number doesn't start with 59....

Thats what I think - confused agents writing screwed up/ incomplete accounts.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 12:55:37 AM by georger »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2333 on: March 14, 2020, 01:06:01 AM »
It's not really the FBI's fault. it's out of there area and just started jotting things down. that's why you see it stated as a pioneer on one document and a Steinthal on the next. 24 feet in length etc. they had no idea what was what...
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Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2334 on: March 14, 2020, 01:07:37 AM »
The only question left would be is to how they knew a Steinthal was in the container....
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Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2335 on: March 14, 2020, 10:07:22 AM »
Quote
Back chute Cooper left on plane serial number 60-9707 manufactured 1960 is consistent with Steinthal serial number system.

60-9707 is only 6 digits...Steinthal in photo is 66-12982 consistent with most chutes. 226 matches nothing and proves nothing given those numbers...

The packing card appears to be a new one with Hayden's chute. no others packed it prior to Cossey? the date on the strap pf Hayden's chute states APRIL 4/57 while the card states SEPT 9/57. that's also wrong. the "226" is carried over from the description above it..."26' ripstop conical 226"

Since only one rigger was on the card in 71, it's possible another card was with the chute and never put back in the pack..

Newspapers and documents tend to be WRONG...
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 10:25:55 AM by Shutter »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2336 on: March 14, 2020, 11:05:25 AM »
The packing card is NEW.. as in no other packing dates prior to 71 and Cossey taking the first line of many packings...I didn't claim it was new dating November 1971..where is the rigging information prior to 1971 for a container and chute a decade old? we see info a decade later...
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 11:06:00 AM by Shutter »
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Offline georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2337 on: March 14, 2020, 03:24:07 PM »
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The packing card is NEW.. as in no other packing dates prior to 71 and Cossey taking the first line of many packings...I didn't claim it was new dating November 1971..where is the rigging information prior to 1971 for a container and chute a decade old? we see info a decade later...

Finegold's account is probably true. Nobody would make something like that up!

But what does that do to the Dawson account, which nobody has brought up so far? (below)  ;D

Evidently McChord chutes were sent before the order was cancelled? Were Finegold's McChord chutes left on the plane or removed by somebody after they were delivered, before Hayden and Cossey chutes were also brought on board?

Why is there no mention of these chutes being brought on the plane by an FBI agent in the flt com transcript? The transcript mentions others coming and going off the plane ...

It sounds like a circus of people coming and going on and off the plane after it landed at SEA!

Is Dawson's account flawed? 

« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 03:28:46 PM by georger »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2338 on: March 14, 2020, 03:28:32 PM »
McChord was pushed out by powers above...

Hayden's chute is marked as evidence. he only got one chute back....seems pretty simple to me?

what are we up to now...
2 from Cossey
2 from Emerick
2 from Hayden
2 from McChord
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Offline georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #2339 on: March 14, 2020, 03:29:40 PM »
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McChord was pushed out by powers above...

Hayden's chute is marked as evidence. he only got one chute back....seems pretty simple to me?

what are we up to now...
2 from Cossey
2 from Emerick
2 from Hayden
2 from McChord

Not according to Finegold!  So you dont believe Finegold - why ?

Or, the agent Finegold recognised was delievering non-McChord chutes ?  Were McChord chutes sent or not? Dawson seems to say no...

The only way McChord chutes can be sent, is if they had already been sent before Dawson's order was cancelled later.
Cooper was wise to reject McChord chutes in any event.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 03:38:23 PM by georger »
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