Author Topic: General Questions About The Case (Read 838809 times)

Shutter · « **Reply #1785 on:** April 16, 2018, 09:25:02 AM »

Quote

Why didnt he just ask for a check?

Good one

Today he could go to a check cashing store...maybe even ask for a IOU

FLYJACK · « **Reply #1786 on:** April 16, 2018, 10:47:12 AM »

Hahneman wanted the money to fund political causes in Honduras..

At the time Honduras was a basket case.. political corruption, class warfare, clan warfare, organized crime, military incursions from Nicaragua. One month after Hahneman's hijacking the (US backed) military exercised a coup. The Soviets and Castro were trying to gain influence throughout Latin America and the CIA was very active.

Hahneman was anti-Communist and his cousin was a pro-US high level Honduran politician. I suspect that Hahneman or his cousin may have been CIA assets.. The ransom money was recovered with no explanation.

Initially, the FBI suggested Hahneman was to get the death penalty but served only 12 years.

377 · « **Reply #1787 on:** April 16, 2018, 12:19:49 PM »

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Quote
Why didnt he just ask for a check?

Good one

Today he could go to a check cashing store...maybe even ask for a IOU

Bitcoin, Etherium, etc. No bags, untraceable.

377

FLYJACK · « **Reply #1788 on:** April 16, 2018, 08:43:17 PM »

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(UPI)—Frederick W. Hahneman reportedly told an FBI agent he is strongly anticommunist, but that he channelled $303,000 ransom from an Eastern Air Lines hijacking through a Communist bank to finance causes he backs in Latin America. FBI agent Norman Bliss testified at a hearing Monday about his interview with Hahneman, who is accused of hijacking Eastern’s flight 175 May 5. The hijacker got the ransom money, parachutes, jumping gear and survival equipment in Washington, and bailed out over Honduras. Hahneman did not have the money when he surrendered to U.S. embassy officials in Honduras Saturday. "He said it would eventually wind up in the hands of the people with whom he was working for causes in Central and South America,” Bliss said. He said Hahneman told him the money would be channelled to the unidentified "causes” back through the United States. Bliss, who interviewed Hahneman while returning him to Miami, said Hahneman told him he landed near the town of Tela, Honduras, "took off all his gear, sat down and had a smoke and waited until daylight.” "He said that by Monday, the money was out of his hands,” Bliss said. At the end of the hearing, U.S. Magistrate Michael J. Osman recommended that Hahneman, 49, be taken to Alexandria, Va., to face charges of air piracy, kidnap ing and assault with a deadly weapon.

"Frederick W. Hahneman" aka "Frederick William Hahneman" b 1922 Honduras

father's name "William Frederick Hahneman"

military record search found only a "William H Hahneman" b 1927 Honduras

He enlisted in New Orleans. The hijacker "Frederick W. Hahneman" attended a Community College very close in Mississippi..

"FREDERICK W HAHNEMAN was born 05 July 1922, received Social Security number 427-34-7983 (indicating Mississippi) and, Death Master File says, died 17 December 1991."

So, is this the same person, dual/fake identity? a brother? Two William Hahneman's from Honduras in the US military at the same/close location?

Military record..

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Found info... "William H Hahneman" is Frederick W Hahneman's younger brother by 5 years.

William H Hahneman born Honduras 1927 served in the USAF.. naturalized US citizen.

Where did he go? Was he involved? Back to Honduras? Cooper?

FLYJACK · « **Reply #1789 on:** April 17, 2018, 12:27:50 PM »

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(UPI)—Frederick W. Hahneman reportedly told an FBI agent he is strongly anticommunist, but that he channelled $303,000 ransom from an Eastern Air Lines hijacking through a Communist bank to finance causes he backs in Latin America. FBI agent Norman Bliss testified at a hearing Monday about his interview with Hahneman, who is accused of hijacking Eastern’s flight 175 May 5. The hijacker got the ransom money, parachutes, jumping gear and survival equipment in Washington, and bailed out over Honduras. Hahneman did not have the money when he surrendered to U.S. embassy officials in Honduras Saturday. "He said it would eventually wind up in the hands of the people with whom he was working for causes in Central and South America,” Bliss said. He said Hahneman told him the money would be channelled to the unidentified "causes” back through the United States. Bliss, who interviewed Hahneman while returning him to Miami, said Hahneman told him he landed near the town of Tela, Honduras, "took off all his gear, sat down and had a smoke and waited until daylight.” "He said that by Monday, the money was out of his hands,” Bliss said. At the end of the hearing, U.S. Magistrate Michael J. Osman recommended that Hahneman, 49, be taken to Alexandria, Va., to face charges of air piracy, kidnap ing and assault with a deadly weapon.

"Frederick W. Hahneman" aka "Frederick William Hahneman" b 1922 Honduras

father's name "William Frederick Hahneman"

military record search found only a "William H Hahneman" b 1927 Honduras

He enlisted in New Orleans. The hijacker "Frederick W. Hahneman" attended a Community College very close in Mississippi..

"FREDERICK W HAHNEMAN was born 05 July 1922, received Social Security number 427-34-7983 (indicating Mississippi) and, Death Master File says, died 17 December 1991."

So, is this the same person, dual/fake identity? a brother? Two William Hahneman's from Honduras in the US military at the same/close location?

Military record..

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Found info... "William H Hahneman" is Frederick W Hahneman's younger brother by 5 years.

William H Hahneman born Honduras 1927 served in the USAF.. naturalized US citizen.

Where did he go? Was he involved? Back to Honduras? Cooper?

Here we go,

can't find any military record for Frederick W Hahneman b Honduras 1922, reports at the time of his hijacking claimed WW2 military.. I did find a record for his brother (attached) William H Hanheman b Honduras 1927. He went into the Air Corps..

Question is, did the FBI mix them up in press releases?

Working theory, the Hahneman brothers did Norjak to fund political causes in Honduras. Both had German father and Honduran mother (mixed Latin). The younger brother from the US Air Corps played "Cooper".. He likely died in the jump but if he survived fled to Honduras, probably without the money (lost). Still in need of money for his political causes, 6 months later the older brother did a copycat hijacking. Lots of similarities except the higher level of violence in the second one. The FBI dismissed Frederick W Hahneman in Norjak without explanation, but what about his brother William H Hanheman.. he would have been 44 in 1971.

This guy is a ghost, I can' find anything on him, the older brother's death record is there (July 5, 1922 - December 17, 1991).

William H Hahneman seems to have disappeared... died, missing or fled to Honduras?

Find him and you might have found Cooper... in Honduras or in the ground in Wa State.. (IMO)

.

Shutter · « **Reply #1790 on:** April 17, 2018, 01:02:39 PM »

The FBI released a photograph of Hahneman and described him as a while male, five feet eight inches tall, with brown hair and brown eyes, and with a scar on the back of his left hand.

FLYJACK · « **Reply #1791 on:** April 17, 2018, 01:06:09 PM »

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The FBI released a photograph of Hahneman and described him as a while male, five feet eight inches tall, with brown hair and brown eyes, and with a scar on the back of his left hand.

and his brother???

find him.

Lynn · « **Reply #1792 on:** April 17, 2018, 09:10:04 PM »

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Wiki statement below....

No passengers were allowed to leave the plane while Eastern Airlines worked to meet Hahneman's demands.[10] These were $303,000 in cash, six parachutes, two bush knives, two jump suits, two crash helmets,[11] fuel, food[12] and two cartons of his favourite Benson and Hedges[13] cigarettes.[14]

Offhand, the description of this hijacking is of a far "rougher" sounding suspect than Cooper. He pressed a gun into the stomachs of passengers who left their seats. He made the pilot wear a NOOSE, ffs. The hijacking was also done in a very different way - the passengers knew they were being hijacked (tactically, this could have been a mistake, and one Cooper avoided); the hijacker demanded the plane go back for larger bill denominations (this would make sense if he were Cooper and had lost the bulkier 305 loot in the jump); it sounds like the hijacker had direct contact with the pilot; used a gun rather than a bomb and was less concerned about minimizing time on the ground - re-configuring the bill denominations alone took 4 hours.

A skyjacker's a villain in damned near any script, but compared to Hahneman, Cooper sounds like a choirboy. However, they do have age in common - a very unusual age for skyjackers, as shutter has mentioned previously, and the description of him before the flight was similar to how ppl described Cooper. I don't think he's Cooper, but it's an interesting angle, and it would be interesting to know his rationale for the assortment of gear he wanted. Hahneman's wife's story is heart-rending. I hope her life got better in later years.

Shutter · « **Reply #1793 on:** April 17, 2018, 09:19:17 PM »

He was the same height as Tina...she would know if someone was the same height as herself...this is a Kenny issue that is hard to get over...Fly has now directed his attention to the brother...I see too much violence with this guy, odds are his brother is about the same...they could be different though...

Lynn · « **Reply #1794 on:** April 17, 2018, 09:25:58 PM »

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He was the same height as Tina...she would know if someone was the same height as herself...this is a Kenny issue that is hard to get over...Fly has now directed his attention to the brother...I see too much violence with this guy, odds are his brother is about the same...they could be different though...

Yeah, I eliminate anyone Tina's height or under, too. I'm late to this suspect; do we know anything about the brother? Siblings can be quite different and still follow each other to some degree. Frederick H's motive, however, reminds us that Cooper's "grudge" and/or motivation for wanting a large sum of money could have been damned near anything. Politics as a motive has come up before. And there were so many of these causes back then. Someone was always funding revolutionaries somewhere.

Lynn · « **Reply #1795 on:** April 17, 2018, 10:24:11 PM »

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I see an average nose on Cooper...this guy has 3 of them side by side...very wide nose..the marcelled hair is from a passenger who also claims the suit was rustic red I believe the color was..nobody else gave that color..specially the stews who had a reason to watch him...

You just jogged my memory - what was that show where Bill Mitchell was interviewed by a British guy? He thought something - he couldn't quite pin it down - didn't "match" in Cooper's attire. Didn't Tina think Cooper's suit was brown with a black pinstripe? I had a brown suit with that kind of pin years ago - it looked awful although it was in style at the time - and it almost came off as having a reddish-brown quality. Anyway, though black is supposed to match everything, plenty of people don't like to wear brown and black together. Coop's overcoat was black, his suit likely dark brown. Maybe that was what Mitchell thought didn't quite match.

By the way, I only recently realized Cooper wasn't wearing a watch. He asked Mucklow for the time at one point (God knows why time mattered to him, but whatever) and none of the witnesses mentioned a watch. I would have expected most people to wear one in 71 (though you do hear of people who can't wear watches because they "stop on their wrist" - no idea if there is any science behind it.)

Shutter · « **Reply #1796 on:** April 17, 2018, 10:27:26 PM »

I don't know if McCoy was wearing a watch, but he pretty much flew the plane from the back by asking for constant updates..don't know if he asked about the time but I would guess he had a watch..he was very critical in his timing...

georger · « **Reply #1797 on:** April 17, 2018, 11:28:30 PM »

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I see an average nose on Cooper...this guy has 3 of them side by side...very wide nose..the marcelled hair is from a passenger who also claims the suit was rustic red I believe the color was..nobody else gave that color..specially the stews who had a reason to watch him...
You just jogged my memory - what was that show where Bill Mitchell was interviewed by a British guy? He thought something - he couldn't quite pin it down - didn't "match" in Cooper's attire. Didn't Tina think Cooper's suit was brown with a black pinstripe? I had a brown suit with that kind of pin years ago - it looked awful although it was in style at the time - and it almost came off as having a reddish-brown quality. Anyway, though black is supposed to match everything, plenty of people don't like to wear brown and black together. Coop's overcoat was black, his suit likely dark brown. Maybe that was what Mitchell thought didn't quite match.

By the way, I only recently realized Cooper wasn't wearing a watch. He asked Mucklow for the time at one point (God knows why time mattered to him, but whatever) and none of the witnesses mentioned a watch. I would have expected most people to wear one in 71 (though you do hear of people who can't wear watches because they "stop on their wrist" - no idea if there is any science behind it.)

Where in the transcripts is Cooper asking Tina for the time? I missed that?

FLYJACK · « **Reply #1798 on:** April 18, 2018, 12:03:21 AM »

I don't believe FWH was 5' 8".. he looks taller in this pic with agents escorting him, unless the agents are really short. Didn’t they have a minimum height back then. The 5’ 8" description was issued early when they were looking for a suspect. The FBI was the source but what was their source? The context for the 5' 8” was in regards to a suspect description so we can’t confirm its accuracy..

FWH was described as white but looks latin. His brother was also described as white in military records. The White Latino thing..

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But, the character and aggressiveness during the hijacking plus the unknown reason that FBI eliminated him makes me look at his brother, WHH.

Plus, more reasons to look at his brother..

Just discovered he had a brother and his military enlistment record, he was in the Air Corps.
Motive, funding a “political” cause in Honduras could be a shared ideology with family. The “GRUDGE"
Brother was also half German, half Honduran. (Latin appearance)
Brother would have been 44 in 1971
His brother seems to have gone missing, or left the US for Honduras.
Their mother and her family remained in Honduras., never came to the US.
Both were born in Honduras and later naturalized US citizens.

If Norjak failed, he died or lost some/all of the money, FWH would still need the money for his “cause” in Honduras. Pulling off another hijacking himself six months later makes sense.

We just have to find the brother to confirm or exclude him.

Their father was German, mother Honduran.

Hijacker: Frederick William Hahneman b 1922 d 1991
Father's name: William Frederick Hahneman
Mother's name: Delia Pastore Ordóñez (she remained in Honduras, FWH briefly hid at her home)
Brother's name: William H Hahneman b 1927

Since, the father was German and their names were German, the middle H in the brother’s name is likely German.

Top german names in 1920’s starting with H

Hans
Heinz
Horst
Helmut / Helmuth
Herbert
Heinrich
Hermann
Harald
Harry / Harri
Henri / Henry
Hugo
Hubert

Shutter · « **Reply #1799 on:** April 18, 2018, 12:20:37 AM »

Average height Latin America (see below)

Author Topic: General Questions About The Case (Read 838809 times)

Shutter

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