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Author Topic: General Questions About The Case  (Read 774133 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1665 on: March 25, 2018, 12:12:43 PM »
R99, or 377, is it policy for skydiving companies to force someone out of a plane? it's obvious she had second thoughts and didn't want to go. he removed her hands from the plane several times forcing her out of the plane...
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Robert99

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1666 on: March 25, 2018, 12:43:24 PM »
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R99, or 377, is it policy for skydiving companies to force someone out of a plane? it's obvious she had second thoughts and didn't want to go. he removed her hands from the plane several times forcing her out of the plane...

I am not aware of any would be skydiver being thrown out of a plane.  I do know of people going up for their first jump and still being in the jump ship when it landed.  And others who made one jump and called it a career.
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Robert99

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1667 on: March 25, 2018, 01:10:16 PM »
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Quote
and preventing any sabotage to the chutes

That didn't workout to well for him if he had to use the front chute...no D-rings, and a little problem with the canopy. still hard to say if he found out the chute was bad...
Hm, yes, I wish I knew more about skydiving, but I don't wish it enough to actually do it! Out of curiosity, how frequently is the reserve chute used/needed?

I had to use my reserve on my 9th jump due to a complete inversion of the main canopy.  Our DZ buddy Amazon had to use her reserve on her 10th jump for reasons she didn't explain.

Long time jumpers like 377, and probably Amazon also, very likely have to use their reserve chute once in several hundred jumps depending on what they are doing.  Amazon likes to do these extremely high speed vertical free-falls, reaching speeds up to about 300 MPH which is about twice the normal opening speed, and then being unable to slow down to the normal opening speed.  She has broken shroud lines and landed with damaged chutes.  I don't know if she had to use her reserve on one of those jumps. 
« Last Edit: March 25, 2018, 01:11:56 PM by Robert99 »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1668 on: March 25, 2018, 01:14:41 PM »
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R99, or 377, is it policy for skydiving companies to force someone out of a plane? it's obvious she had second thoughts and didn't want to go. he removed her hands from the plane several times forcing her out of the plane...

I am not aware of any would be skydiver being thrown out of a plane.  I do know of people going up for their first jump and still being in the jump ship when it landed.  And others who made one jump and called it a career.

Did you watch the video? it was pretty clear she didn't want to jump..
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Robert99

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1669 on: March 25, 2018, 01:18:46 PM »
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R99, or 377, is it policy for skydiving companies to force someone out of a plane? it's obvious she had second thoughts and didn't want to go. he removed her hands from the plane several times forcing her out of the plane...

I am not aware of any would be skydiver being thrown out of a plane.  I do know of people going up for their first jump and still being in the jump ship when it landed.  And others who made one jump and called it a career.

Did you watch the video? it was pretty clear she didn't want to jump..

It sure looked like she had changed her mind.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1670 on: March 25, 2018, 01:32:00 PM »
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R99, or 377, is it policy for skydiving companies to force someone out of a plane? it's obvious she had second thoughts and didn't want to go. he removed her hands from the plane several times forcing her out of the plane...

I am not aware of any would be skydiver being thrown out of a plane.  I do know of people going up for their first jump and still being in the jump ship when it landed.  And others who made one jump and called it a career.

Did you watch the video? it was pretty clear she didn't want to jump..

It sure looked like she had changed her mind.

She obviously slipped out of the harness, but I don't know if it was from the struggle of not wanting to leave the plane..
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Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1671 on: March 25, 2018, 01:34:51 PM »
watching a followup video the woman claims he didn't force her out...
« Last Edit: March 25, 2018, 02:09:13 PM by Shutter »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1672 on: March 25, 2018, 04:22:30 PM »
It appears she was complaining it was tight. they loosened the straps..the instructor failed to check her harness prior to jumping...one of the straps was seen off her shoulder while waiting...very lucky lady...
« Last Edit: March 25, 2018, 04:22:52 PM by Shutter »
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Offline 377

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1673 on: March 26, 2018, 01:22:04 PM »
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R99, or 377, is it policy for skydiving companies to force someone out of a plane? it's obvious she had second thoughts and didn't want to go. he removed her hands from the plane several times forcing her out of the plane...

It is dangerous trying to get a balking inexperienced jumper back into the plane once they are out or partially out. They flail, twist and turn and can accidentally pull or snag deployment handles in their panic. For that reason, if a jumper balks when out or partially out, SOP is to exit not re-enter the cabin.

A chute deploying inside the plane that snakes out the door and inflates can shred the harnessed jumper through the aluminum side and yes this HAS happened. Or, it can wrap around the elevator and make the plane uncontrollable. In one case the deploying chute actually ripped the whole tail section off of the aircraft. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

And yes, twice I had to do a cutaway use my reserve when my main chute malfunctioned. Once in 1972 using a 1950s surplus 26 foot Navy Conical reserve and once in 2005 using a modern PDR 193 square reserve. The Navy reserve cost $25. I was thinking hard about my thriftiness as I watched the ground rushing up praying that my dirt cheap Plan B would work. My PDR 193 (193 st ft) was state of the art and cost about $1000. I expected it to work flawlessly and it did.

I am jumping next Saturday, March 31. Details at You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login. Georger, I will be working 20M QRP SSB on 14.250 MHz from aloft.

Hope I have had my last reserve ride, but having done it twice, I am a lot more confident about doing a successful cutaway if the need arises.

377
« Last Edit: March 26, 2018, 01:24:45 PM by 377 »
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FLYJACK

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1674 on: April 02, 2018, 10:38:38 AM »
I am looking a tight group of three friends/associates...
One was in an environment that matches the tie particles and time frame.
One is a dead ringer for the 2nd Cooper sketch..
All were pilots.

But that would suggest a possible accomplice scenario. Colbert has the Wally Foss story where 3 people and small planes were involved, they picked up the hijacker at Goheen Airport and flew to another small airport then another plane to Portland. Stories like this often get embellished or twisted over time but may have some kernel of truth to them.

However, I am having a difficult time figuring this possibility out. These guys were all pilots had small planes and were very experienced at landing in fields..

How would they know the flightpath (V23). Was it broadcast? Could they have heard the radio transmissions to track the 727 take off time, flightpath and position? Could they sufficiently track the plane?

How could they rendezvous with a jumper where a small plane could land? Seems very difficult.. Is there a military procedure? Radio? Flare, Signal? Could they track the the jumper?

Seems a tough ask, but I don't really know much about this stuff..
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Offline 377

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1675 on: April 02, 2018, 12:39:59 PM »
I like to fantasize that DBC used radio gear to communicate with a pick up person, but its just fantasy, zero evidence that he had any kind of radio gear. He really should have carried a pocket-sized tunable VHF receiver (under $30 at Radio Shack in 1971). He could have easily monitored all comms between the plane and the various ground units.

On Sat March 31st, I set a new parachute to ground radio distance record, talking with Lloyd G. Rasmussen W3IUU in Maryland while I was flying my canopy over Byron CA at about 8000 ft. My radio was a book sized battery powered Yaesu FT 817 putting out slightly less than 5 watts on 14.250 MHz USB. Lloyd is blind and learned about my upcoming jump through a network of blind hams.

I had a very busy jump. My canopy opened with line twists but since I opened so high I had plenty of time to kick them out. I was carrying a Go Pro camera driving a 5.8 GHz transmitter for live air to ground video. I also had APRS telemetry gear that broadcast my GPS data and heart rate and blood oxygen percentage to ground stations that auto-posted the data on the Internet in real time. Had to unwind and deploy a trailing wire end fed dipole antenna. Also had a VHF UHF radio to communicate with the DZ and get up to date wind info.

My resting HR is 67 BPM. The telemetry data showed a peak of 173 BPM!!! during the more stressful parts of the jump. Worst SpO2 was 84%, getting better as I descended into denser air.

377

« Last Edit: April 02, 2018, 12:40:31 PM by 377 »
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1676 on: April 02, 2018, 04:10:47 PM »
Line twists? 377! You're giving me gray hairs!!!

Well, at least the ones I have left...
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Offline 377

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1677 on: April 02, 2018, 05:02:33 PM »
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R99, or 377, is it policy for skydiving companies to force someone out of a plane? it's obvious she had second thoughts and didn't want to go. he removed her hands from the plane several times forcing her out of the plane...

I am not aware of any would be skydiver being thrown out of a plane.  I do know of people going up for their first jump and still being in the jump ship when it landed.  And others who made one jump and called it a career.

Actually, there is a very disturbing video that I can't locate at the moment that shows a group of hypoxic loopy skydivers literally rolling UNCONSCIOUS skydivers out the door of a Lockheed Constellation. Fortunately, these involuntary jumpers came to at lower altitudes and managed to deploy their canopies, no injuries or fatalities.

Here is something similar with two hypoxic jumpers making terrible decisions, skip to 2:09: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

377

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Offline MEYDC

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1678 on: April 02, 2018, 09:47:35 PM »
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I am looking a tight group of three friends/associates...
One was in an environment that matches the tie particles and time frame.
One is a dead ringer for the 2nd Cooper sketch..
All were pilots.

But that would suggest a possible accomplice scenario. Colbert has the Wally Foss story where 3 people and small planes were involved, they picked up the hijacker at Goheen Airport and flew to another small airport then another plane to Portland. Stories like this often get embellished or twisted over time but may have some kernel of truth to them.

However, I am having a difficult time figuring this possibility out. These guys were all pilots had small planes and were very experienced at landing in fields..

How would they know the flightpath (V23). Was it broadcast? Could they have heard the radio transmissions to track the 727 take off time, flightpath and position? Could they sufficiently track the plane?

How could they rendezvous with a jumper where a small plane could land? Seems very difficult.. Is there a military procedure? Radio? Flare, Signal? Could they track the the jumper?

Seems a tough ask, but I don't really know much about this stuff..
I wonder if a small plane with accomplices of DBC could have followed the 727 at some point to spot him jumping.
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1679 on: April 03, 2018, 12:30:28 AM »
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How would they know the flightpath (V23). Was it broadcast? Could they have heard the radio transmissions to track the 727 take off time, flightpath and position? Could they sufficiently track the plane?


Ron Forman discusses this at length in his book "Legend of DB Cooper - Death by Natural Means." Ron says that he and other local pilots knew all commercial flights heading southbound at 10K were in Victor 23. Other researchers, particular here, says that there are variants on that, such as a Victor-23 A flight path that was still east of the mountains.

The bigger question is how far down the rabbit hole do you want to go? Commandos, extractions teams, hi-end comms on both ends, inside info from McChord and Seattle Center? Etc. If you follow this wacky wabbit as far as he can hop, just about anything is possible. In my view, the only real impediment to discussing this kind of scenario is how dearly one wants to hold on to the notion that the "government (military, et. al.) would never do that kind of thing..."
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