Author Topic: General Questions About The Case (Read 851829 times)

smokin99 · « **Reply #165 on:** March 11, 2015, 02:09:12 AM »

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Shutter, you should try the westbound span of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge - it's a steel mesh deck and you can see the water as you drive! OMG!!! I get the super heebie-jeebies.

As for learning how to do the Cooper jump, Paul Cini was not a good teacher. He choose a DC-8, with only a side hatch for an exit.

Not such a good choice.

I know you guys are enjoying a Group Hug on the notion that jumping from a 727 in 1971 twasn't a big deal and just about anybody cudda known about it if they wanted. That's not what skydivers from that era tell me.

This conversation must be driving 377 crazy, because on November 24, 1971 he had a technical manual on the 727 and didn't know the plane could be jumped until the next day, learning from Cooper like most of the world.

I grew up with a lot of fearless guys. I assure you there are smart fearless people who would do the Cooper hijacking without any hesitation, without skydiving training, any experience flying, etc. The only essential ingredients are deciding to do it, putting together a plan, then doing it! Period. They might get injured or even die doing it but they would 'do it' if motivated to do so. Whether 377 knew the 727 was jumpable or not - is totally irrelevant! Does he think the world at large waits for him to acknowledge something before people do what they do in life thinking they must do it, or it can be done, etc? Manuals are totally irrelevant to this whole thing!

The story of David vs Goliath wasn't in some manual! But every kid with a sling or a bow knew it was possible! People had been bringing down a lot tougher game than Goliath with slings and stones and bows and arrows for millennia! Arm chair manual readers finally had to revise after the fact!

I assume Cooper was one of those. Or he was plain crazy. But the fearless smart people among us accomplish what Cooper did, every day of their lives ..... just getting up and going to work and surviving one more day, and none of them are crazy! It was the system that was wrong (in the manual!).

Off subject kind of but I always kind of like the fact that history has it that the Anglin and Morris Bros Alcatrez escape was plotted using some flotation info from an issue of Popular Mechanics. Who would have thunk it?

Whether they survived or not is up for speculation, and even if their primary motivation was literally a choice between the devil or the deep blue sea, they obviously had the essential ingredients you mentioned to go for it. Who knows - it could have been just some random information that Cooper came across in a news story or magazine or in a bar or maybe he knew just enough to figure out the rest.

georger · « **Reply #166 on:** March 11, 2015, 02:15:25 AM »

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None. Not in 1971.

The information on the 727 and its requirements for a jump was top secret. Even after the DBC jump I understand that a FOIA request only provided a small amount, and that ultimately 10,000 pages of Boeing materials were delivered.

The only person I know who says he was familiar with the metrics before Cooper was Sailshaw. He hasn't said he knew the 727 could be jumped in 1971, he just knows where that information was available at Boeing. Apparently there was an aft stairs lab at the Renton plant.

However, Paul Cini planned a hi-jacking (in an alcohol induced state) two weeks prior to Cooper's jump. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

In addition, Arthur Brinkley, hijacked a plane on June 4, 1970. He was found incompetent to stand trial in November of 1971.
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How much information was published in the newspapers, or on the nightly news?

Smokin99...can you use your magic and find old newspaper articles from these incidents?

The only think I could find was the regular stuff - Cini was about to put the parachute on and jump at 3000 feet from the dc-8 when he got bonked in the head with an ax. Idiot put his gun down to put on the parachute. Cooper: Note to self...don't do what that guy did.

Was Boeing the only source that knew the 727 could be opened in flight and jumped? What about George Doole and his Air America? According to at least one video out there they were at least testing using 727s in early 70s. Yeah, it might have been cover for CIA but sure didn't look like double secret ops to me in the videos. Besides, all any secret needs in order to be common knowledge is two guys sitting at a bar...... or one guy with a video camera
I'll have to research this to get exact dates, but the video is labeled circa 1970,71.

On another note....One thing I did notice is that in many news accounts immediately post hijacking, the officials are talking like jumping from the aft door in flight was no big deal and safer than jumping from any other opening -- just thought it was interesting that it went from the great unknown to "no big deal" overnight.

Exactly. I also think too much has been made of the supposed 'secrecy' of the aft stairs ... jumpable? Any plane with a hole in it big enough to get through (side or rear) is theoretically "jumpable" ?.

There are many ways Cooper could have come to believe a 727 was jumpable. That the rear door-stairs could be opened in flight. He could have just asked around. He could have asked at an American Legion dinner? He could have called the Sales Div of Boeing and posed as a buyer and somebody probably would have told him! "Our 727 can do anything!"

georger · « **Reply #167 on:** March 12, 2015, 12:59:41 AM »

A very penetrating post showed up at DZ tonight that I think is worth pasting here, for comment - it raises some very important questions which frankly deserve some serious answers. Thanks. G.

Reichenbach

Mar 11, 2015, 9:12 PM
Post #57681 of 57681 (12 views)
Re: [Robert99] McCoy lawsuit [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd like to ask a very legitimate question to you "Cooper fans."

No offense Robert but I can't even get past the fact that the very cover of Into The Blast, represents Cooper with a sport parachute.

If Gray had access to the FBI files, then OMG, where are they in his book? Surely that book would be the textbook, if not the end all reference book on Cooper. Plus the symposium I'm sure was fantastic but your admiration for him for organizing what I see as a successful marketing and promotional event for Skyjack, I don't get. Why are you carrying Gray on your shoulders?

Same with Tosaw, he connects his facts with creative narrative and you people are so eager to regurgitate his pablum as truth. Tosaw discovered what about Cooper?

And the real McCoy? Seriously? I think it's an insult to Dan Cooper to say McCoy was Cooper. McCoy was an obvious idiot. Identical MO?Fingerprints? jumpsuit? Handwriting? Blabbing up a storm? $400k+ in his house? Tina didn't say he's Cooper. Flo didn't say he's Cooper. Alice didn't say he's Cooper. Please.

Just because you CAN write a book about Cooper doesn't mean you know jack about Cooper or that you are close to being even a mediocre author.

So, why do you people have such baseless respect for people who write (entertaining) books about Cooper?

Olemisscub · « **Reply #168 on:** March 12, 2015, 02:27:02 AM »

Just looked at that page on DZ. Blevins says this:

Quote

First, on the cover. It looked cool. We knew it wasn't the 'right' type of chute but frankly, we just didn't care because the book isn't about which parachute Cooper used.

Holy shit....I just....there are no words. "It looked cool." Seriously?

I'll keep his viewpoint in mind when I write my book about the Civil War. On the cover I'll give the Confederates M-16's because, ya know, it looks cool.

georger · « **Reply #169 on:** March 12, 2015, 01:13:11 PM »

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So here's a question I have that doesn't fit anywhere:

Today ties aren't universal. Most people who wear ties regularly, knot them properly. I know of nobody who wears ties and mixes knotted and clip-on ties. The only people I know who wear clip-on ties are kids working as bus boys in restaurants.

When ties were more universal, did people regularly buy both for convenience?

Yes. Believe it or not, a lot of men didn't know how to 'tie' a tie! Or never could remember, or weren't very good at it. The clip on version was therefore mandatory for some. You generally wore ties to formal occasions. Or, as part of a dress uniform (military). You learned how to tie a tie from mom, Dad, older sister, older brother, girlfriend's mom or Dad or older sister or brother ... or drill Sergeant (it's in the manual somewhere!). Bow ties were very difficult for some to learn how to tie and usually reserved for the most formal occasions. Straight tie on dress uniform - bow tie at very formal military events (dances etc at the Academy). Musicians preferred bow tie - leaves the neck open and doesn't restrict air flow - are required for formal concerts. The clip-on tie solves the tying problem, solves the issue of uniformity of appearance in groups of people, and won't hang or strangle you ...

The issue of dimples in hand-tied ties is a separate issue. See chapter-13 in the manual or ask Uncle Levy!

georger · « **Reply #170 on:** March 13, 2015, 02:46:51 AM »

Who FIRST used the term "Cooper Royality"?

Smith, Blevins, and Weber have been sniping back and forth about this for months at DZ, each one accusing the other. The answer is quite simple but it is Robert Blevins who took over the term and has been using it for years in a pejorative manner. Rest assured about that self-evident fact at Dropzone.

The origin of the term "Cooper Royality" is quite simple, as any search shows. It was 377 who invented the term back on Nov 27 2011, then Meyer Louie used the term next on Dec 10 2012, then Blevins picked up the term in response to Meyer Louis ... and Blevins has been the one using the term in a pejorative sense ever since, as follows.

(A) On Nov 11, 2011, 377 commenting on the up-coming Cooper Symposium in Washington, tagged Brian Ingram and other principles in the Cooper story as "Cooper Royalty". 377 was merely giving a roster of important people who were going to attend the Symposium and no pejorative sense was intended or implied. 377's original post is here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

(B) Almost a year later on Dec 10, 2012, Meyer Louis in reply to a long list of people, addressed Blevins' claim that Blevins' work on KC was ground-breaking and Meyer said: nothing personal, it just seems far fetched to think you hold the key to this crazy case we all call DB Cooper, many claim Marla is nuts, Jo is nuts, Cook is nuts etc.. but I can't see that you have anything special Then Meyer concluded his post with the remark: I have another point to make Blevins. For some reason you think you are on the same level as Georger and others. Well, you're not. Co-writing a book and appearing on Decoded does not make you an expert. Some folks here are playing in the Big League with the big boys. You aren't there yet. Spending years and years on this case, interfacing with the FBI and the key players on a regular basis, for years, makes one an expert -- makes one "Cooper royalty" if you will. There are only a handful of people in this elite group. You're not there yet -- and you want to be so badly. Give it time Blevins.

(C) Blevins replied to MeyerLouie saying he never had considered himself special, but the launched a long winded attack against me and others finally saying: See, here's the Real Deal: ... I'm just Robert the Sci Fi Guy who Occasionally Edits Books. When I'm not doing that, I'm out in the mountains or something listening to Mariner or Seahawk games or MP3's ... Look, if I considered myself "Cooper Royalty" I would have showed up at the Portland Symposium with my slideshow gear and countered Marla's claims with some of my own. ... On Georger: He jumps on every post I make, no matter what it is. So IMHO his credibility, his opinions, mean zip to me. You have to pick and choose when to jump down someone's throat, and that should be for 'ridiculous assumptions' only, not because you just don't like someone. ... And in his next post Blevins picks up and starts using the term "Cooper Royalty" in a pejorative sense, he then wrote his "article" at Newsvine condemning "Cooper Royalty", he then invented a further negative term "Cooperland", and he is still using these terms almost daily at Dropzone, 3 years later! Jo Weber then picked up and began using the term in a negative way, about a year later.

Blevins' argument has always been that "Cooper Royalty" are flawed if not dishonest people, who are untrustworthy and Hate Mongers!

This term "Hate Mongers" is an exclusive term invented and used only by RobertMBlevins!

That is the factual origin and use of the terms "Cooper Royalty" and "Cooperland" and "Hate Mangers". From a completely neutral term coined by Mark (377), to Meyer's use of the term to counter Blevins' claims that Blevins and his work were somehow special, to Blevins' use of the term in a pejorative sense which starts on Dec 10, 2012 and continues right up to today, all at Dropzone.

It was also Mark-377 who coined the term "Venom Magnet" in reference of Bob Blevins clear back in 2010! It was a prophetic assignment of terms.

Quote, RM Blevins: ""...the term 'Cooper Royalty,'...I use the term to refer to a select group of people who think they are better, or smarter than others when it comes to investigating the case....".

Bruce A. Smith · « **Reply #171 on:** March 13, 2015, 04:03:30 AM »

Thank you Georger, for clarifying this Royalty business.

May I post this at the DZ? Or Shut? Perhaps you should do the honors, as kind of an emissary from the royal court.

As for myself, I am proud to be a member of the Cooper Royalty. I think the term suits us well.

It also seems to drive Bobby crazy, which is always fun.

MarkBennett · « **Reply #172 on:** March 13, 2015, 09:55:21 AM »

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This term "Hate Mongers" is an exclusive term invented and used only by RobertMBlevins!

I had heard the term "hate monger" before -- mostly in Washington DC political posturing. It's even in dictionary.com

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georger · « **Reply #173 on:** March 13, 2015, 01:31:15 PM »

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Thank you Georger, for clarifying this Royalty business.

May I post this at the DZ? Or Shut? Perhaps you should do the honors, as kind of an emissary from the royal court.

As for myself, I am proud to be a member of the Cooper Royalty. I think the term suits us well.

It also seems to drive Bobby crazy, which is always fun.

sure - do what you want - B will deny it of course. I spent over an hour running searches using a number of search words in various forms. When it came down to it, it was pretty simple. 377 (referencing the symposium in 2011), then Meyer Louie in reference to RMB claims in 2012, then RMB in response to Meyer, and now it has become a mantra 377 never intended.

I wish we could solve the Cooper case as easily!

Shutter · « **Reply #174 on:** March 13, 2015, 02:25:20 PM »

Mr. Blevins seems to speak for the Christian family as if he is a member. how would he have any rights to say what is being written about Christiansen? I understand he has rights to Lyle's story, but where does he fall into making legal decisions on things not related to what he wrote?

It has been written in the past that Kenny had young kids at his home, and bought them gifts. this wouldn't fly today! If Mr. Blevins had the same information, and was against Kenny, he wouldn't shut up about the quote from Gray's book! every other
post would have the quote in it.

He has yet to prove his story is truthful let alone something else being said about Kenny.....

Olemisscub · « **Reply #175 on:** March 13, 2015, 06:13:10 PM »

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Mr. Blevins seems to speak for the Christian family as if he is a member. how would he have any rights to say what is being written about Christiansen? I understand he has rights to Lyle's story, but where does he fall into making legal decisions on things not related to what he wrote?

The dead have no cause of action for defamation nor do their survivors unless the allegedly harmful words independently defame the survivors themselves.

#PaidAttentionInLawSchool

Olemisscub · « **Reply #176 on:** March 13, 2015, 06:19:29 PM »

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It has been written in the past that Kenny had young kids at his home, and bought them gifts. this wouldn't fly today!

It would certainly appear to be suspicious these days and it was probably suspicious back then as well given that people were aware of it enough to remember it happening. Whether or not he had an inappropriate relationship with the boys is something it's probably not fair to speculate on since there really isn't enough evidence. However, I don't think it's base speculation to suggest that KC was gay. Of course, his sexuality is completely irrelevant to the crime unless his "grudge" had to do with homophobia or something.

Shutter · « **Reply #177 on:** March 13, 2015, 06:43:24 PM »

I agree that it has no bearing on the case, but it is basic knowledge Kenny was gay, and did have relations with younger kids. I believe this was told by someone who stayed with him when he was younger. it does sort of give a profile into his past though?

The real question would be, what legal ability would he have speaking for the Christian family. he has rights to what is said in his book, but can he dictate what others say about Christiansen, I don't see where he has any grounds?

Added: I just seen your post above about the dead....I missed it at first...

georger · « **Reply #178 on:** March 14, 2015, 12:34:18 AM »

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Mr. Blevins seems to speak for the Christian family as if he is a member. how would he have any rights to say what is being written about Christiansen? I understand he has rights to Lyle's story, but where does he fall into making legal decisions on things not related to what he wrote?

It has been written in the past that Kenny had young kids at his home, and bought them gifts. this wouldn't fly today! If Mr. Blevins had the same information, and was against Kenny, he wouldn't shut up about the quote from Gray's book! every other
post would have the quote in it.

He has yet to prove his story is truthful let alone something else being said about Kenny.....

I have reached the point (like Gray) where Kenny's personal affairs dont even matter next to the deeper issue: has RMB proved KC was Cooper or even come close to proving that? I dont think RMB has presented any more proof that KC was or even could have been Cooper, than RMB has presented proof that elephants are in the same genus as five-toed winged purple snails! That is the only issue at stake!

Where is the family dna Blevins supposedly has produced for Kenny? Let me guess: hate mongers, cooper royalty, slapped down red hair step children, wage earner sheeple, and other Untrustworthy people in Cooperland - only Trusted Friends of Adventire Books like Danielle10-10 get to see it?

And "Cooper Royalty can kiss my ass!"

georger · « **Reply #179 on:** March 14, 2015, 02:02:53 PM »

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Thank you Georger, for clarifying this Royalty business.

May I post this at the DZ? Or Shut? Perhaps you should do the honors, as kind of an emissary from the royal court.

As for myself, I am proud to be a member of the Cooper Royalty. I think the term suits us well.

It also seems to drive Bobby crazy, which is always fun.

Well that backfired bigtime, as I predicted it would... leading to the 50,000th recitation of the 'History of the World' by Narcissist-I and Narcissist-II who have always substituted soap opera for facts.

So let me ask! What would the real DB Cooper think if he could look back and read Dropzone!?

That really is all I have to say about this craziness -

Author Topic: General Questions About The Case (Read 851829 times)

smokin99

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georger

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georger

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Olemisscub

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georger

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georger

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Bruce A. Smith

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MarkBennett

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georger

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Shutter

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Olemisscub

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Olemisscub

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Shutter

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georger

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georger

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