Author Topic: General Questions About The Case  (Read 774175 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1620 on: March 03, 2018, 11:46:13 PM »
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Shut, do any of the podcasts describe how and why McNally was released from prison?

I would have to go back to the first part..I skipped through a lot that wasn't related to Cooper...good behavior might of done the trick..the older you get the less trouble you cause in prison..I'll see what I can find...
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1621 on: March 03, 2018, 11:51:34 PM »
By 2009, McNally decided he'd had enough parole hearings to last a lifetime. No more, he told his case manager. Each previous hearing — about a half-dozen throughout the last three decades — had ended with the parole board restating the obvious: McNally's past crimes made him a risk to the public.

But after a miscommunication with a case manager, McNally was nevertheless roused on the morning of July 18, 2009, and told he was expected at a parole hearing the next day. The inmate grumbled, but an order was an order.

The meeting seemed normal enough. The board quizzed him about his record and his activities in prison. By now, McNally had collected about 30 years of generally good behavior. Like Trapnell, McNally had been affected by the 1978 caper and its sobering aftermath. He wrote to his mother about changing her will. "Don't leave me anything," he told her. "I'm never going to get out of prison."

Yet McNally left the parole hearing in a state of dumbfounded bliss, and he walked back to his cell, grinning ear to ear. Against all expectations, he'd been given a release date. The board had evaluated his 37 years in prison and deemed him capable of handling parole.

Six months later, on Jan. 27, 2010, McNally walked out of the federal prison in Atwater, California, and hopped on a Greyhound bus. He initially requested to be settled in Tennessee to live with an old prison buddy, but that plan had been denied. McNally had no interest in returning to his estranged family in Michigan.

He still hasn't set foot on a plane..to paranoid, says McNally...

Released from prison Jan. 27, 2010
Released from parole Oct. 4, 2010

I guess they decided it wasn't worth keeping an eye on the old guy  :chr2:
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 12:02:40 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1622 on: March 04, 2018, 12:18:25 AM »
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I'm curious, what was so bad that caused you to stop listening to the interview? I found McNally interesting. you might even say typical when it comes to a criminal..he fooled me...I seen a young kid in trouble, but I never really looked into his case to see the real McNally..that could very well be the problem with Cooper..McNally got exactly what he deserved..

McNally might not be truthful in all his statements...criminals lie..he seemed sincere, but so did Ted Bundy...

There was a general feeling of creepiness about McNally, the interviewers, and the podcast. It was hard for me to listen, to accept that they were saying. Yes, McNally was honest and transparent, but he also presented a morally unhealthy perspective.

I never heard him apologize or recognize the anxiety he caused among so many. He presented a strange detachment  - and so did the hosts. Their advertisements for cruising all the mafia hotspots in Chicago - seeing where the crimes happened and how they were conducted - felt creepy, too.

None of this occurred when I spoke with Robb Heady, nor when he came to the WSHM and Ariel.

was Robb a career criminal?
McNally was a common criminal..he has paid his debt, so I doubt he will be apologizing anytime soon. it was just another day at the office for him..not all criminals are like this, but most of them are..that's why they can't be trusted...you have to remember these are Federal crimes committed..McCoy was similar to McNally..I don't know much about Heady, but it appears he was in a different league all together...
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1623 on: March 04, 2018, 12:38:00 AM »
A career criminal has no remorse, he doesn't care what happened. the only thing he's sorry for is getting caught. remember that!
they have nothing to lose, and will take anything they can from you without regret, and by any means..

McNally doesn't appear to be a man full of bluffs. in fact, he would call you out first..that's how I read him...cold, perhaps. he had what it takes to attempt something like this...

Reading about Heady, it appears he wasn't a career criminal. as I mentioned, he's in a different league..he suffers from PTSD and obviously depression...he has a conscience, the other clowns don't..
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 01:28:37 AM by Shutter »
 
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Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1624 on: March 04, 2018, 03:06:34 AM »
Thanks, Shut.

Also, I concur with your assessment of a career criminal.
 
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FLYJACK

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1625 on: March 04, 2018, 10:29:04 AM »
McNally had an accomplice.. who was also charged and convicted.

Walter John Petlikowsky

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Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1626 on: March 04, 2018, 11:02:42 AM »
It appears that Cooper was the father of this category of skyjacking...only one comes close to his age..

McCoy was 29
McNally was 28
Heady was 22
Paul Cini  was 27
Garrette Trapnell was 38
Richard LaPoint was 33
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 11:03:16 AM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1627 on: March 04, 2018, 01:01:11 PM »
It appears that Lapoint falls into the same category as Heady...

LaPoint "had just gotten out of Vietnam. He'd never jumped out of an airplane before. He was a very strange guy" with a sometimes shaky memory and occasional explosive temper, recalled his court-appointed defense attorney, Harry Sterling of Denver.
"He thanked me. Said I got him out of a jam he was dumb enough to get into," he said.
The exploits of Cooper and LaPoint did result in one positive thing, Sterling said.
"Right afterward they put up security gates at airports."

Trapnell hijacking...FBI negotiators were able to free the prisoners and have Oswald surrender with no injuries or deaths. The bomb that was strapped to her chest later emerged to be railroad flares wired to what appeared to be a doorbell.

photo below of railroad flares..was there a large railroad depot around Vancouver? take the spike off any you have perfect red colored "dynamite" no markings...also the manufactures box..
« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 01:23:42 PM by Shutter »
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1628 on: March 04, 2018, 02:12:17 PM »
This is as real as it gets...


..
 

Offline Lynn

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1629 on: March 04, 2018, 06:13:50 PM »
You're on fire, today, shutter, this is awesome stuff. I promised I was gonna hunker down to my fiction but am down the rabbit hole again.  :good post:
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1630 on: March 04, 2018, 10:37:45 PM »
No experience required.....

Driving through Detroit in January 1972, Martin McNally listened with growing interest to a radio news report of a two-month-old hijacking in the Pacific Northwest. Shortly before Thanksgiving, an unidentified man had commandeered a Boeing 727 after taking off from Portland International Airport.

According to the report, the hijacker had ordered the plane to land and subsequently demanded a parachute and $200,000. Upon receipt, the hostages were released, but the hijacker kept the crew and ordered the plane to take off once again. Forty-five minutes into flight, the man jumped from the lowered stairwell at the rear of plane. Both hijacker and cash had seemingly disappeared without a trace.

In the coming months, McNally would spend hours poring through library books on parachutes and skydiving. An idea took root in his mind. The hijacker on the radio — soon mythologized as "D.B. Cooper" — had demonstrated an effective strategy for air piracy, and it seemed a much easier task than knocking over an armored truck or a bank.
 
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georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1631 on: March 05, 2018, 12:25:26 AM »
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No experience required.....

Driving through Detroit in January 1972, Martin McNally listened with growing interest to a radio news report of a two-month-old hijacking in the Pacific Northwest. Shortly before Thanksgiving, an unidentified man had commandeered a Boeing 727 after taking off from Portland International Airport.

According to the report, the hijacker had ordered the plane to land and subsequently demanded a parachute and $200,000. Upon receipt, the hostages were released, but the hijacker kept the crew and ordered the plane to take off once again. Forty-five minutes into flight, the man jumped from the lowered stairwell at the rear of plane. Both hijacker and cash had seemingly disappeared without a trace.

In the coming months, McNally would spend hours poring through library books on parachutes and skydiving. An idea took root in his mind. The hijacker on the radio — soon mythologized as "D.B. Cooper" — had demonstrated an effective strategy for air piracy, and it seemed a much easier task than knocking over an armored truck or a bank.

Just want to issue a caution:  Im not sure how far one can go extrapolating from a few other hijackers to Cooper. One can build a short list of things other hijackers did that Cooper did not do, and visa-versa.

Likewise one can draw up a short list of things Cooper did not do compared to things a Navy Seal would have done - like setting up a defensive perimeter, which Cooper did not do. Somewhere in all of these comparisons would be the real Cooper vs. others. Its clear Cooper had a plan. The question is 'what kind of a plan' modeled on what? I have always said I feel Cooper was very open in his transactions allowing people on and off the plane. Even requiring Tina to go and off the plane. I think today a swat team would seize that opportunity, and in today's world of highly trained responders a savvy hijacker might not give the same opportunities Cooper gave, or he would be dead. 

 
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 02:04:06 AM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1632 on: March 05, 2018, 05:55:32 AM »
Lots of people feel the need to believe Cooper was some sort of special ops, or a highly skilled pilot, or skydiver. I highlight area's showing that it can be rather simple to gain information to try and pull off the skyjacking. I've even wondered if Cooper was a frequent flyer and watched the stairs come down on a tarmac and put two and two together..you could walk right into a mechanics hanger back then..

I'm not trying to compare the two vs explain how easy one was done with little knowledge. the 302's show people doing this as well. McNally did copy the idea, but the original could of be done in a similar way.."just enough to get himself in trouble"

the video was posted to show how real a hijacking is..Cooper was not a hero and played a dangerous game just as the others did that followed him..Heady was remorseful, so he gets patted on the back, McNally didn't show remorse and is marked evil, and yet they all threatened the lives of others....

Correct, I believe they would storm the plane today..just as they did in 1994. criminals today, most of them have zero remorse..
« Last Edit: March 05, 2018, 06:11:19 AM by Shutter »
 
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Offline Lynn

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1633 on: March 22, 2018, 02:41:00 PM »
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Lots of people feel the need to believe Cooper was some sort of special ops, or a highly skilled pilot, or skydiver. I highlight area's showing that it can be rather simple to gain information to try and pull off the skyjacking. I've even wondered if Cooper was a frequent flyer and watched the stairs come down on a tarmac and put two and two together..you could walk right into a mechanics hanger back then..

I'm not trying to compare the two vs explain how easy one was done with little knowledge. the 302's show people doing this as well. McNally did copy the idea, but the original could of be done in a similar way.."just enough to get himself in trouble"

the video was posted to show how real a hijacking is..Cooper was not a hero and played a dangerous game just as the others did that followed him..Heady was remorseful, so he gets patted on the back, McNally didn't show remorse and is marked evil, and yet they all threatened the lives of others....

Correct, I believe they would storm the plane today..just as they did in 1994. criminals today, most of them have zero remorse..
That hijacking video was jaw-dropping. Once again am reminded of how DBC's bomb changed the game from what it would have been if he were just carrying a gun. Was he the first hijacker to use a bomb rather than another type of weapon? I do recall other planes having been blown up, but were the planes taken initially with bombs or were the crews at gunpoint? Recall several being blown up in like Cuba after the hostages were off the plane. I think georger's right - he had a plan, but we don't know what kind - military, copycat, individual.

I also think shutter's right - he could have just been very good with the research. It's the little things that pull me away from that theory - like his knowing what generally only the crew knew, like where the oxygen was kept on board. To me that's something you wouldn't know offhand, whereas as shutter mentioned, you could observe the 727 steps being lowered and have a dig into how they worked. He did know they could be lowered before take-off without major damage, which is not a fact he could have observed during regular travel - that wouldn't have been done on any civilian flight he may have been on, if the pilots of 305 didn't even know it could be. I don't think he was a complete amateur; but as he could have been an expert in only one or two fields, it doesn't mean he knew everything involved in the jump. He'd have to have researched some stuff. He may have known airplanes, or jumping, or air service, or military ops, or FBI procedures, but it's unlikely he was expert in all those things. We don't know his experiential knowledge vs what he could have learned from research.

He of course also "feels" different from other skyjackers, because those guys all got caught, so stuff was known about them beyond what happened during their incidents. With Cooper, ALL we have is his on-board persona - largely cool and collected, occasionally amused or irritated, never rude or cruel, given to a few hackneyed movie gangster phrases like "no funny stuff/business" and "do the job". A dude in a so-so suit with fine mannerisms and no need for parachute instruction. My feeling on the guy - and of course I could be way off - is that he had some airplane and parachuting experience and knowledge, but was not a career criminal. Which I guess is not really helpful because that's most of the suspect list.  ;)
 

Offline Lynn

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1634 on: March 22, 2018, 03:08:13 PM »
I'm not quite sure which thread this question goes to so am putting it here: Were any of the forum members or guests IN Portland in or around 1971? Can any of you describe the interior of the airport beyond what has already been posted? As for Portland itself, was there a hub, or was it the kind of city where the action is more spread out? What hotels and motels were nearest the airport? Were there any AT the airport?

This is for my own fiction work, so completely self-serving. I'm backing away from post-jump speculation as my own story mainly concerns itself with events up to the jump. I'm brainstorming on where DBC may have been prior. It's possible he got off one plane, strolled through the airport and simply bought a one-way ticket to Seattle without any real link to Portland himself outside the airport. The problem with this idea is obvious: he'd have had to risk a second checkpoint, plus travelling with the "bomb" on an airplane he couldn't jump from. Possibly a small risk, but an entirely unnecessary one, so indicates he probably did stay a bit of time in Portland proper.

Now, having said that, there was no inexplicably abandoned car at the airport or the environs to link to Cooper. No useful leads from taxi drivers or desk clerks. Was there a bus to the airport? Did it stop at particular hotels/motels? He could have waited for hours, even overnight at the airport without notice, DEPENDING ON THE AIRPORT. Or he could have had an accomplice (in the know or just a friend dropping a bro off for his flight) get him to the airport, but if not in the know, that person never made the connection to Cooper. I have no real sense of how large Portland airport was in 1971 so this is where it unravels for me personally; could you hide out there without notice in 1971? Any info here would help. I'd like the story to be as authentic as possible as far as locales of the era go.

Last point: if he did spend a spell in Portland, which seems likely, he'd also have likely gotten his "supplies" in that area - possibly his entire outfit, but at minimum the road flares/dynamite and the battery, likely the cheapo briefcase/attache case (they are technically different sizes; an attache case is considerably thinner), and possibly the cigarettes and book of matches. The cigarettes are too common to have been of any use, but I did look into the availability of dynamite in the area. IF the explosives were real, his best bet would have likely been some kind of farming supply place, as dynamite was sometimes used to remove obstructions to farming, etc. Road flares are more common, but still sold at a limited number of places - sporting stores/departments, marine shops, supply stores for emergency crews possibly. I'd give anything to have a copy of the 1970-71 Portland Yellow Pages. Anyone in Portland, I'd pay for just photocopies of certain sections. Thanks in advance to anyone who can provide anything.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 03:29:00 PM by Lynn »