Don't know about smoke jumper payloads. I've jumped with about 25 lbs of stuff in addn to my rig. The weight isn't the problem, although it makes landings tricker, it's the aero drag asymmetry that messes things up in freefall. I could probably handle another 75 lbs if the payload pack was symmetrical. More weight makes for a higher speed landing but your canopy glide angle (dictated by L/D) remains unchanged.

377

For me, one witness' statement does not cancel another's statement. I proceed with everything in a state of possibility. What Mike Cooper and Bill Mitchell told me may be true or not. What Flo told the FBI may be true or not, as well.

The bigger issue is who is telling the closest version of the truth, which leads to the question of how do we know who is telling the truth to us.

Since Florence isn't talking to any reporters, and hasn't since at least 2008 when GG says that he talked with her, her comments have a tinge of suspicion. Further, it is increasingly apparent that the NWO and possibly the USG had reason to shape the skyjacking narrative. For NWO it might have been to protect their company's image in the mind of the flying public. For the gov't, it might have been to protect the secret of how to jump from a 727, to the extent that was possible after November 24, 1971.

Bottom Line: We have three witnesses tell us three different stories about the sunglasses and how Dan Cooper boarded the aircraft.

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For me, one witness' statement does not cancel another's statement. I proceed with everything in a state of possibility. What Mike Cooper and Bill Mitchell told me may be true or not. What Flo told the FBI may be true or not, as well.

The bigger issue is who is telling the closest version of the truth, which leads to the question of how do we know who is telling the truth to us.

Since Florence isn't talking to any reporters, and hasn't since at least 2008 when GG says that he talked with her, her comments have a tinge of suspicion. Further, it is increasingly apparent that the NWO and possibly the USG had reason to shape the skyjacking narrative. For NWO it might have been to protect their company's image in the mind of the flying public. For the gov't, it might have been to protect the secret of how to jump from a 727, to the extent that was possible after November 24, 1971.

Bottom Line: We have three witnesses tell us three different stories about the sunglasses and how Dan Cooper boarded the aircraft.

Bruce,

You have given an excellent explanation above of why Flo, Tina, Rataczak, Anderson, and all the other people who have first hand knowledge of the hijacking, have gotten fed up with talking to self-styled reporters and investigators.

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Responses to Meyer Louie above.

Me: Notice that Cooper is very diligent about removing evidence from this crime. 

Mr Louie: This is your original contention, Mr. Rollins.  I cited several examples where this statement can't possibly be true.

Response, Sure, he's not perfect, but after 45 years nobody even knows who he is.  I guess he did something right!

Me: wears sunglasses for most of the flight,

Mr. Louie: There was a brief time where he did NOT wear his sunglasses.  Some people saw him at that time.  Diligent about maintaining his identity?  I'd think he would have never taken off his sunglasses and would have never allowed anyone to see his eyes and eye color.  Again, it begs the question, just how diligent was he?

Response, It might have looked suspicious in 1971 to wear sunglasses on an overcast day with rain showers onto the plane.  So he didn't don the sunglasses until after he gave Florence the note.  Tina never saw his eyes.


Me: retrieves an empty book of matches that Tina discards and puts it in his pocket!  He is going the extra mile to leave no trace. 

Be assured he takes the briefcase with him.

Mr Louie: Be assured that I am not assured that this actually happened.

Response, It's okay to have an opposing opinion, since there is no evidence to support either premise.


Me: I maintain that Cooper planned this caper for at least a month.  He didn't jump unprepared!  He had everything he needed. 

Think of the problems he could solve with just a roll of duct tape (kept in the paper bag). 

Mr Louie: If he had duct tape, I would think he would have used it to seal up the money bag, rather than going to all that trouble of cutting parachute chord and using it to secure the bag.

Response:  And maybe he did!  He had items in his paper bag and briefcase that he didn't want anyone to know he had.  But while the 727 sat on the ground for almost 2 hours being refueled, he made use of that time and the available material on hand, but without revealing the other items that he had with him.

I guess a lot of this comes down to how you view Dan Cooper.  If you consider him to be dumb and careless, then you see all these issues as pertinent to his character.  However, if you consider him to be an intelligent and inventive individual like I do, you see these "mistakes" that he commits as just small oversights in the overall successful big picture.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I think I'm having another deja vue.  Didn't Robert Blevins respond to posts like this -- section by section, piece by piece, over and over again?   

In any event.....we could go back and forth even more on these matters, Mr. Rollins.  You've made your point, and I made min.  You have, however, gotten me to think about another angle here.  What was Cooper's real state of mind and soul at that moment in time?  He may have experienced some excruciating loss and was very distraught.  That was his grudge, this was his reaction to his internal agony.  It's probably safe to say he was a desperate man carrying out a desperate act.  I wonder if anyone has researched this angle and followed up on a military guy in the Portland or Seattle area, prior to that time, who may have lost his family or loved one(s) in some horrible accident, a house fire, or some dereliction of duty by a governmental agency or hospital that resulted in the death of a family member or members.   

I think I'm having another deja vue.  Didn't Robert Blevins respond to posts like this -- section by section, piece by piece, over and over again?   

In any event.....we could go back and forth even more on these matters, Mr. Rollins.  You've made your point, and I made min.  You have, however, gotten me to think about another angle here.  What was Cooper's real state of mind and soul at that moment in time?  He may have experienced some excruciating loss and was very distraught.  That was his grudge, this was his reaction to his internal agony.  It's probably safe to say he was a desperate man carrying out a desperate act.  I wonder if anyone has researched this angle and followed up on a military guy in the Portland or Seattle area, prior to that time, who may have lost his family or loved one(s) in some horrible accident, a house fire, or some dereliction of duty by a governmental agency or hospital that resulted in the death of a family member or members. 

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

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Responses to Meyer Louie above.

Me: Notice that Cooper is very diligent about removing evidence from this crime. 

Mr Louie: This is your original contention, Mr. Rollins.  I cited several examples where this statement can't possibly be true.

Response, Sure, he's not perfect, but after 45 years nobody even knows who he is.  I guess he did something right!

Me: wears sunglasses for most of the flight,

Mr. Louie: There was a brief time where he did NOT wear his sunglasses.  Some people saw him at that time.  Diligent about maintaining his identity?  I'd think he would have never taken off his sunglasses and would have never allowed anyone to see his eyes and eye color.  Again, it begs the question, just how diligent was he?

Response, It might have looked suspicious in 1971 to wear sunglasses on an overcast day with rain showers onto the plane.  So he didn't don the sunglasses until after he gave Florence the note.  Tina never saw his eyes.


Me: retrieves an empty book of matches that Tina discards and puts it in his pocket!  He is going the extra mile to leave no trace. 

Be assured he takes the briefcase with him.

Mr Louie: Be assured that I am not assured that this actually happened.

Response, It's okay to have an opposing opinion, since there is no evidence to support either premise.


Me: I maintain that Cooper planned this caper for at least a month.  He didn't jump unprepared!  He had everything he needed. 

Think of the problems he could solve with just a roll of duct tape (kept in the paper bag). 

Mr Louie: If he had duct tape, I would think he would have used it to seal up the money bag, rather than going to all that trouble of cutting parachute chord and using it to secure the bag.

Response:  And maybe he did!  He had items in his paper bag and briefcase that he didn't want anyone to know he had.  But while the 727 sat on the ground for almost 2 hours being refueled, he made use of that time and the available material on hand, but without revealing the other items that he had with him.

I guess a lot of this comes down to how you view Dan Cooper.  If you consider him to be dumb and careless, then you see all these issues as pertinent to his character.  However, if you consider him to be an intelligent and inventive individual like I do, you see these "mistakes" that he commits as just small oversights in the overall successful big picture.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I think I'm having another deja vue.  Didn't Robert Blevins respond to posts like this -- section by section, piece by piece, over and over again?   

In any event.....we could go back and forth even more on these matters, Mr. Rollins.  You've made your point, and I made min.  You have, however, gotten me to think about another angle here.  What was Cooper's real state of mind and soul at that moment in time?  He may have experienced some excruciating loss and was very distraught.  That was his grudge, this was his reaction to his internal agony.  It's probably safe to say he was a desperate man carrying out a desperate act.  I wonder if anyone has researched this angle and followed up on a military guy in the Portland or Seattle area, prior to that time, who may have lost his family or loved one(s) in some horrible accident, a house fire, or some dereliction of duty by a governmental agency or hospital that resulted in the death of a family member or members.   

The part above in bold is something I've thought about a lot. What was ripping apart a lot of families during this time period?

The Vietnam war of course.

Cooper was described by most to be around 45-50 years old. It's perfectly reasonable then that he may have had a son of Vietnam draft age in the mid-late 60's. So many young men did not come home alive and I've often wondered if Cooper may have had a son killed in Vietnam. He had a grudge against the government for shipping his son off to war only to not come back home again. His whole world was turned upside down by this loss. People react differently to tragedy and tragedy has a way of sending some people off the deep end. Take someone who is maybe not the most emotionally or mentally stable person to begin with and add a personal tragedy of this magnitude on top. Now mix in a feeling of betrayal and grudge against the government for their role in this tragedy. Now you have the recipe for something totally crazy to happen .... you know, like hijacking an airplane and ransoming the government.

When thinking about Cooper's motive, this is one that has always sort of resonated with me.