Author Topic: General Questions About The Case  (Read 774696 times)

Offline 377

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1125 on: November 01, 2016, 12:57:38 PM »
Sailshaw wrote: "FBI cover-up of Hillary Clinton..."

FBI hasn't been doing HC any favors of late. 
Even Trump agrees.

Sheridan's alleged lie about birth dates doesn't prove he was DBC. I do not believe a jury would convict Sheridan on the evidence that has been presented so far. His strikingly blue eye color doesn't match the witness descriptions (brown) and there is no evidence that he used colored contacts.
If I represented him I would move for a pretrial dismissal based on the FBI's spoliation of possibly exculpatory evidence (cig butts) and their failure to properly preserve, control custody, and prevent contamination of other evidence (tie) etc. Failing that I'd bet I could get a jury to acquit. The evidentiary standard for a guilty verdict in a criminal trial is proof beyond a reasonable doubt, NOT preponderance of evidence (the civil standard).
No way could that standard be met with regards to Peterson based on the evidence that has been produced so far.

Sheridan sure had ALL the skills needed, but there is a huge difference between a technically qualified DBC candidate and a person who can be convicted of the NORJACK crimes.

377



 

Offline 377

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1126 on: November 01, 2016, 01:45:27 PM »
Pic of asymmetrical gear I jumped.

377
 

Offline George21226

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1127 on: November 01, 2016, 01:56:07 PM »
Nicky, the three of us have assembled a rough chart of former collaborators and crime-partners. Because you've been on Rackstraw longer, we'd love to run it by you, see if you feel we're on the right track.

I don't want to share the details on the blog -- you up for a quick email?
 

Offline andrade1812

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1128 on: November 01, 2016, 04:34:22 PM »
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Pic of asymmetrical gear I jumped.

377

What's the maximum amount of weight you've jumped with? And sort of related, how much gear do smoke jumpers carry with them?
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1129 on: November 01, 2016, 04:56:41 PM »
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[ He probably had coated his fingertips with something and wasn't leaving traceable fingerprints.]

What coating? Duralast?  Duralast-Extra Strength ?   :)) ?

Model airplane glue would probably do just fine.  If you built model airplanes as a youngster prior to 1971, you know that glue gets on your fingers and is difficult to get off.

Cooper getting his original note back from the cockpit probably included concerns about his handwriting being identifiable as well as the note paper being evidence and maybe having his finger prints on it also.

 But overall, Cooper was plainly negligent about leaving evidence behind.

More than that, if Cooper was an engineer, formally trained and savvy about technical/forensic things ... say chemistry, basic science, physics, engineering, and the like ... wouldn't he have had some appreciation for the evolving times he himself was living in? By 1960 the whole world was literally set if not involved in, a world-wide technical Revolution! The Cold War. Sputnik. WWII leading to Korea and Vietnam. Most people's lives were knee deep in the technical revolution breaking with all of the social issues that generated including the whole spat over Vietnam. How could Cooper escape that?

A savvy technical person would have left nothing behind! Unless he was reckless or deaf, dumb, and blind. Or didn't care -   his very hijacking is a concomitant part of the Social Revolution he himself is fostering on Flight 305!  :)) 
   
« Last Edit: November 01, 2016, 04:58:37 PM by georger »
 

Offline 377

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1130 on: November 01, 2016, 05:06:52 PM »
Don't know about smoke jumper payloads. I've jumped with about 25 lbs of stuff in addn to my rig. The weight isn't the problem, although it makes landings tricker, it's the aero drag asymmetry that messes things up in freefall. I could probably handle another 75 lbs if the payload pack was symmetrical. More weight makes for a higher speed landing but your canopy glide angle (dictated by L/D) remains unchanged.

377
 

MeyerLouie

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1131 on: November 02, 2016, 11:42:19 PM »
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Notice that Cooper is very diligent about removing evidence from this crime. 

This is your original contention, Mr. Rollins.  I cited several examples where this statement can't possibly be true.

 wears sunglasses for most of the flight,

There was a brief time where he did NOT wear his sunglasses.  Some people saw him at that time.  Diligent about maintaining his identity?  I'd think he would have never taken off his sunglasses and would have never allowed anyone to see his eyes and eye color.  Again, it begs the question, just how diligent was he?


retrieves an empty book of matches that Tina discards and puts it in his pocket!  He is going the extra mile to leave no trace. 

Be assured he takes the briefcase with him.

Be assured that I am not assured that this actually happened.


I maintain that Cooper planned this caper for at least a month.  He didn't jump unprepared!  He had everything he needed. 

Think of the problems he could solve with just a roll of duct tape (kept in the paper bag)

If he had duct tape, I would think he would have used it to seal up the money bag, rather than going to all that trouble of cutting parachute chord and using it to secure the bag.

He could tape his shoes to his legs, tape the briefcase to his chest, and seal off his pant legs and sleeves from the cold and rain.  You have to use your imagination and plan like a man who was intelligent and serious to understand the means Cooper may have used.  Yet, since he had 30 minutes alone in the aft section of the 727, no one realizes how well this man has prepared.  This deception is one of the reasons that after 45 years, no one knows what really happened.  (P.S. He escaped with the money).

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Diligent about everything?  How about the tip he offered Tina?  How about the tie he left behind?  How about the 8 cigarette butts he left behind?  How about not having a clue about how to get the aft stairs to deploy in flight?  That doesn't sound all that diligent to me, not to mention the little buzz he must have had from the cocktails he drank.  I don't think he was as careful and thorough as people believe.  There is a distinct possibility that he was just plain lucky in some instances.  Lady Lucky smiled down on him a couple of times for sure.  His genius, his ability to deceive and outsmart everyone, his label as a folk hero -- well, it's all helped to create the urban legend we know as DB Cooper. 

On the DZ Forum long ago, I remember some discussion about the necessity of being centered, having good center of gravity, on a jump and how important that was to preventing spin on a jump (I do not profess expertise on this topic, however).  If he duct taped the briefcase and shoes to his person -- along with the two parachutes and money bag hanging from his waist -- seems like he'd be really bogged down, unbalanced, without the proper center of gravity -- making the jump more challenging and dangerous than it already was.  I think he chucked the briefcase -- it was bulky and awkward, it had already served its purpose.  It's still out there.  In one piece?  Maybe, maybe not.

If Cooper was a highly trained special ops, creme de la creme, kind of guy -- and I think he was -- then he spent much more than a month preparing.  He spent a whole career honing specialized skills.  He was probably the best of the best at what he did.

Meyer Louie
[/quote]
Diligent about everything?  How about the tip he offered Tina?
This to me just shows that Cooper is not really after the money.  His real motivation is his grudge.  He probably had coated his fingertips with something and wasn't leaving traceable fingerprints.

How about the tie he left behind?  How about the 8 cigarette butts he left behind?
I think the tie was a mistake, he meant to take it with him but probably got caught up in all the other preparations and forgot it.  In 1971, there was no such thing as DNA evidence and electron microscopes in law enforcement, so if neither item could produce fingerprints, he wasn't too concerned.

How about not having a clue about how to get the aft stairs to deploy in flight?  That doesn't sound all that diligent to me, not to mention the little buzz he must have had from the cocktails he drank.  I don't think he was as careful and thorough as people believe.
Larry Carr states that Cooper ordered one drink, a bourbon and soda, and spills half of it.  He doesn't consider that to be a lot of alcohol over the 5 hours Cooper was on the plane.  Cooper obviously knew that the aft stairs could be deployed in flight, but somehow believed they were controlled through the cockpit.  A mistake that didn't hinder his objectives.

I will disagree with you though and say that Cooper was extremely thorough (but not perfect), and his knowledge wasn't infinite.  Luck plays a role in most everything in life, and I can't deny that Dan Cooper had luck on his side on that fateful evening.


Again, my contention is that Cooper is an engineer (per the Citizen Sleuths and their analysis of the metal particles on his tie). 

He also holds at least an instrument rating with a private pilot's license (because of his knowledge of flight operations). 


He knew things the pilots didn't even know!  He knew 10,000 feet, 160 knots, flaps at 30 degrees.  I say that puts him at a potentially high level of knowledge and expertise.  Meyer Louie


I believe he had military training, but probably hadn't made a skydiving attempt in years.  Therefore, he seems informed about skydiving, but certainly doesn't appear to be an expert.

[/quote]
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1132 on: November 03, 2016, 04:21:48 AM »
The Tie

As y'all debate the tie, remember that its existence as true evidence is a tad suspect. A couple of things, which I have mentioned before:

1. The tie only entered the evidence collection in Seattle on Monday November 29, 1971, according to Calame and Rhodes. So- where was it since Wednesday night? Who had it, too?

2. The four FBI agents who were responsible for collecting all the evidence on Flight 305 when it landed do not remember seeing the tie, nor retrieving it, according to interviews conducted by Calame and Rhodes.

3. Tina Mucklow told Calame and Rhodes that she does not remember the tie, either, despite telling the FBI she did see it during her debrief in Reno on November 24.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 04:22:31 AM by Bruce A. Smith »
 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1133 on: November 03, 2016, 09:23:16 AM »
It would be funny if one of the agents was the owner of the tie. taking it off while looking under the seats etc., and then not saying anything  :)) :)) :))
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 09:23:39 AM by Shutter »
 
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Offline sailshaw

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1134 on: November 03, 2016, 10:44:11 AM »
377  You say:  "Sheridan's alleged lie about birth dates doesn't prove he was DBC. I do not believe a jury would convict Sheridan on the evidence that has been presented so far. His strikingly blue eye color doesn't match the witness descriptions (brown) and there is no evidence that he used colored contacts.
If I represented him I would move for a pretrial dismissal based on the FBI's spoliation of possibly exculpatory evidence (cig butts) and their failure to properly preserve, control custody, and prevent contamination of other evidence (tie) etc. Failing that I'd bet I could get a jury to acquit. The evidentiary standard for a guilty verdict in a criminal trial is proof beyond a reasonable doubt, NOT preponderance of evidence (the civil standard).
No way could that standard be met with regards to Peterson based on the evidence that has been produced so far."

I say:  "You have to take off your Lawyer Hat that teaches you that you can always prove :Black is White" to get your client off free and clear. Then put on your Engineering Hat and deal with the real facts in the DB Cooper case. The FLAW in Sheridan's phony alibi is all I need to know that Sheridan is DB Cooper. The question that leads to that conclusion is "why would he lie to the FBI (a Federal Crime with jail time) unless he had to show he was in Nepal delivering one of his children? Neither child was born in Norjak year (1971) as the son was born in 1970 and the daughter in 1972 and neither were born in 1971." Now that is just my Engineering Logic and I think you can understand that too. I do not think the FBI should put Sheridan in jail but do a trade of no jail for telling us the rest of the story and we can finally close Norjak.

Bob Sailshaw
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PS  Like your skydiving photo it has lots of color.

 

Offline Bill Rollins

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1135 on: November 03, 2016, 11:04:15 AM »
Responses to Meyer Louie above.

Me: Notice that Cooper is very diligent about removing evidence from this crime. 

Mr Louie: This is your original contention, Mr. Rollins.  I cited several examples where this statement can't possibly be true.

Response, Sure, he's not perfect, but after 45 years nobody even knows who he is.  I guess he did something right!

Me: wears sunglasses for most of the flight,

Mr. Louie: There was a brief time where he did NOT wear his sunglasses.  Some people saw him at that time.  Diligent about maintaining his identity?  I'd think he would have never taken off his sunglasses and would have never allowed anyone to see his eyes and eye color.  Again, it begs the question, just how diligent was he?

Response, It might have looked suspicious in 1971 to wear sunglasses on an overcast day with rain showers onto the plane.  So he didn't don the sunglasses until after he gave Florence the note.  Tina never saw his eyes.


Me: retrieves an empty book of matches that Tina discards and puts it in his pocket!  He is going the extra mile to leave no trace. 

Be assured he takes the briefcase with him.

Mr Louie: Be assured that I am not assured that this actually happened.

Response, It's okay to have an opposing opinion, since there is no evidence to support either premise.


Me: I maintain that Cooper planned this caper for at least a month.  He didn't jump unprepared!  He had everything he needed. 

Think of the problems he could solve with just a roll of duct tape (kept in the paper bag). 

Mr Louie: If he had duct tape, I would think he would have used it to seal up the money bag, rather than going to all that trouble of cutting parachute chord and using it to secure the bag.

Response:  And maybe he did!  He had items in his paper bag and briefcase that he didn't want anyone to know he had.  But while the 727 sat on the ground for almost 2 hours being refueled, he made use of that time and the available material on hand, but without revealing the other items that he had with him.

I guess a lot of this comes down to how you view Dan Cooper.  If you consider him to be dumb and careless, then you see all these issues as pertinent to his character.  However, if you consider him to be an intelligent and inventive individual like I do, you see these "mistakes" that he commits as just small oversights in the overall successful big picture.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 11:08:42 AM by Bill Rollins »
 

Offline 377

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1136 on: November 03, 2016, 12:32:27 PM »
Sailshaw writes: "I say: "You have to take off your Lawyer Hat that teaches you that you can always prove :Black is White" to get your client off free and clear."

You are flipping things around Sail. As defense counsel I don't have to prove ANYTHING. The burden of proof is 100% on the prosecution. I don't think the prosecutor could prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Sheridan Peterson did the skyjack. I'd defend Sheridan free if he were indicted and would let me represent him. I'd have a pretty good chance of getting the case dismissed before it ever went to a jury based on FBI mishandling and loss of key evidence.

His alleged Nepal birthdate lie does not prove he is DBC. You are a logical engineer and you know that statement is correct. An alibi lie is circumstantial evidence of guilt, I will admit that, but it's not proof.

Here is a typical jury instruction on the subject:

CALCRIM Jury Instruction 362 – Consciousness of Guilt: False Statements
If the defendant made a false or misleading statement before this trial relating to the charged crime, knowing the statement was false or intending to mislead, that conduct may show (he/she) was aware of (his/her) guilt of the crime and you may consider it in determining (his/her) guilt.


377
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 12:32:52 PM by 377 »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1137 on: November 03, 2016, 04:10:30 PM »
Sunglasses

It's not exactly clear when he put them on. Bill Mitchell says that he saw Dan Cooper put on his shades as they crossed the tarmac to board the plane, just as Bill did since the sun was coming out in a classic "sun break" so common to the PNW. This scenario refutes what Florence has supposedly said.

Adding more confusion, Mike Cooper, the other "Cooper"  -remember coming in from Montana - says that he was standing with Tina at the top of the stairs during the brief lay-over at Portland, and Cooper was one of the first to approach the plane to board. Mike says Tina turned him around for reasons that are unclear, but in general framework of: "we're not ready to board passengers just yet." I will clarify that with Mike in the near future, and as to whether Dan Cooper was wearing his sunglasses, and when.

Of course, I could clarify that with Tina, too, but as we all know she has said everything that needs to be said about Norjak, as per Allison Berg and the Nice People at LMNO.

As for Florence and what she saw about sunglasses and when, well, it appears that even the nicest niceness from the Nice People is not nice enough.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 04:12:45 PM by Bruce A. Smith »
 

Offline Bill Rollins

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1138 on: November 03, 2016, 04:42:04 PM »
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The Tie

As y'all debate the tie, remember that its existence as true evidence is a tad suspect. A couple of things, which I have mentioned before:

1. The tie only entered the evidence collection in Seattle on Monday November 29, 1971, according to Calame and Rhodes. So- where was it since Wednesday night? Who had it, too?

2. The four FBI agents who were responsible for collecting all the evidence on Flight 305 when it landed do not remember seeing the tie, nor retrieving it, according to interviews conducted by Calame and Rhodes.

3. Tina Mucklow told Calame and Rhodes that she does not remember the tie, either, despite telling the FBI she did see it during her debrief in Reno on November 24.

In the FBI interviews directly after the hijacking, Florence gives a physical description of Cooper and mentions that he is wearing a thin black tie.  Alice states that he wore a white shirt and tie.  Tina, in her second interview in PA, states that Cooper impressed her as being an executive by his dress, special mannerisms, and the consideration that he exhibited for her while he was on the aircraft. 

So it appears that Cooper wore a tie onto the airplane.  What may have happened to it from there, obviously, is debatable.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1139 on: November 03, 2016, 08:49:12 PM »
Yes, I agree that DB Cooper probably wore a thin, black tie during the skyjacking. I also believe that there is a strong probability that he took it off and left it on the plane. For me, the big issue who is making iron-clad statements about it, and why.

Knowing more about Red Campbell might be useful, since he was in charge of the evidence retrieval in Reno. What kind of guy was he? What was his standing in the Bureau? Respected? Tolerated? Hated? Bill Jensen was supposed to be looking into this a bit because he said he wanted to find the 8 missing cigarette butts, which also falls into Campbell's purview. But I haven't heard a word from Billy.