Author Topic: General Questions About The Case  (Read 774164 times)

Offline 377

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1020 on: May 03, 2016, 12:57:03 PM »
Nobody wishes that DB Cooper had used a radio more than I do, but there is ZERO evidence that he did. Not one scintilla. Zip. Nada.

Would it have worked to enable a rendezvous with a ground man? It is certainly possible. I've made dozens of radio jumps and have first hand experience regarding coverage area etc.

The MAC SOG jumpers used a small portable radio beacon and and very simple direction finding gear (Japanese transistor radios with internal ferrite bar antennas) to meet up after a night jump into the jungle. It was reported to work quite well.

Using just loop antennas for direction finding has a problem in that you get two bearings 180 degrees apart. But that's usually resolvable using logic and a very rough idea of which direction that station lies from you. More advanced DF sets have sense antenna circuits that give only one bearing and eliminate the 180 degree ambiguity.

If DB Cooper had a 1971 vintage CB walkie talkie and an accomplice was on a high peak, ground to ground comms would have been possible over considerable distance. If Cooper could see the peak he could talk to an accomplice there even if it was 20 miles away. I think the chances of Cooper operating a radio on the way down were low. Its hard enough in good weather and daylight.

Could a radio have been useful in meeting up with an accomplice? Unquestionably yes.

Was one used? Zero evidence that it was.

377
 

Offline 377

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1021 on: May 03, 2016, 01:01:54 PM »
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Bruce:   An article on our friend 377 has just been published in the QST mag of the Amateur Radio Hams (May 2016) about radio communications while skydiving. In talking with 377 he estimates that DB Cooper could have talked up to 90 miles when at 10,000 ft which could have made one or two ground helpers if stationed half way between Seattle and Portland be in good contact on CB radios. 377 based his estimate of distance from the work he is currently doing that was in the QST mag. Had the ground men used loop antennas, they could have followed DB to the ground and used CB radio to find out where to pick him up. I know 377 would like to see radio gear a part of the DB Cooper case and he is now gathering info on just how it could have been done. Duane Webber had a lot of CB radio gear in his car per Jo his wife. She would like to make Duane be Cooper but he was never that smart in his other crimes but could have been one of the ground men. The other ground man I think was Cossey from the way he talked when I last talked to him on the phone. DB/Sheridan and Cossey had to know each other as they both worked at the Issaquah Airport teaching skydiving.
My FLAW found in Sheridan's phony alibi should allow the FBI to close the case finally

Bob Sailshaw
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Sailshaw has a point about Cossey and Peterson. Almost impossible that they didn't know each other. The skydiving community was small back then. Dropzones were few and far between. Riggers and instructors were at the top of the pecking order. They might not have been friends but I'll bet they knew who the other person was.

As for Duane playing any role in NORJACK, highly unlikely. If he were involved the case would have been solved long ago due to some screwup. You've heard the term journeyman criminal? Well let's say Duane's arrest and conviction history says he was still in the apprentice program. 

377
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 01:04:54 PM by 377 »
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1022 on: May 03, 2016, 01:25:27 PM »
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Nobody wishes that DB Cooper had used a radio more than I do, but there is ZERO evidence that he did. Not one scintilla. Zip. Nada.

Would it have worked to enable a rendezvous with a ground man? It is certainly possible. I've made dozens of radio jumps and have first hand experience regarding coverage area etc.

The MAC SOG jumpers used a small portable radio beacon and and very simple direction finding gear (Japanese transistor radios with internal ferrite bar antennas) to meet up after a night jump into the jungle. It was reported to work quite well.

Using just loop antennas for direction finding has a problem in that you get two bearings 180 degrees apart. But that's usually resolvable using logic and a very rough idea of which direction that station lies from you. More advanced DF sets have sense antenna circuits that give only one bearing and eliminate the 180 degree ambiguity.

If DB Cooper had a 1971 vintage CB walkie talkie and an accomplice was on a high peak, ground to ground comms would have been possible over considerable distance. If Cooper could see the peak he could talk to an accomplice there even if it was 20 miles away. I think the chances of Cooper operating a radio on the way down were low. Its hard enough in good weather and daylight.

Could a radio have been useful in meeting up with an accomplice? Unquestionably yes.

Was one used? Zero evidence that it was.

377

.. - - .. ,  There is no evidence he knew where he was or where he would jump to coordinate with a helper, unless the target was the Portland-Vancouver area. In spite of it looking like he wanted to be ready to jump quick/early, which he did not do and he hadn't even lowered the stairs for (by the way), he waited until the next large landmarks were visible in front of him if you believe Rataczak ("we were in the suburbs of Vancouver when the bump happened"). If he had always planned to jump in that area then 'yes', a radio and a helper might have helped.

One value of a radio that I see is an ability to keep track of news on radio stations, to listen to law enforcement (possibly), to know what law enforcement is doing, and possibly for direction finding. He could very easily have had a small transistor AM/FM pocket radio. He could have used that radio to know when he was getting close to Vancouver-Portland (just like aviators did when making bombing runs in WWII).

But, nobody saw him with a radio at the airport or on the plane. We have no testimony that the crew heard a radio playing in the back. But, he could have used ear plugs. There are always hypothetical options in what is hypothetical to begin with.  :)   

ps: If Cooper intended to bail early to stay with a plan and a schedule/appointment (the Carr Theory) he sure didn't press the issue, just as he didn't press the issue of the missing backpack, the stall in refueling until Rataczak called an end to that ruse, and not having the stairs out! These stalls and allowances by Cooper put his first opportunity for jumping somewhere between Ariel and Vancouver, if the record is accurate. If you can add a few more minutes, now his area of drop falls in the Vancouver area proper and he is dangerously close to when the plane crossed the Columbia. The fact everyone seems to be missing here is Cooper intentionally waited! He could have easily forced issues to get an earlier liftoff and stair out at take off or shortly thereafter! The "Intended to Bail Early Theory" just does not square with the facts of what Cooper actually did, and he was in control of the situation. However you read the facts, the idea that he always intended to bail close to Vancouver-Portland is a definite possibility. And of course some of his money turns up ... just west of Vancouver. I think the dots connect ???     

If Cooper intended to bail out early close to Seattle, he sure screwed it up! That is not the mark of someone who is an expert tactical technician ... like Special Forces! Special Office Worker maybe?  ;)   
   
« Last Edit: May 03, 2016, 03:11:46 PM by georger »
 

Offline 377

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1023 on: May 03, 2016, 04:55:43 PM »
G wrote: The fact everyone seems to be missing here is Cooper intentionally waited! He could have easily forced issues to get an earlier liftoff and stair out at take off or shortly thereafter! The "Intended to Bail Early Theory" just does not square with the facts of what Cooper actually did, and he was in control of the situation.

Interesting point. Hadn't thought about that before. I like it when folks take fresh look at old evidence and see something new.

I keep wondering how DBC could reasonably expect to elude searchers unless he had help on the ground. No vehicle, massive manhunt and cops had a pretty decent idea of the area that needed to be searched (presuming the exit point was accurately calculated). It wasn't an entire state that needed searching or anything close to that. I keep wondering if he intentionally jumped far from the presumed exit point. That would minimize the risk of immediate capture.

377
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1024 on: May 03, 2016, 04:59:24 PM »
Quote
presuming the exit point was accurately calculated

That's part of the key right there....
 

Offline 377

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1025 on: May 03, 2016, 05:11:51 PM »
If Cooper wore brown contacts and if he actually exited long after the pressure bump was felt, law enforcement would be searching for the wrong guy in the wrong place. That would dramatically reduce his chances of immediate capture and make it unlikely that he would be identified later.

I've always wondered why he was so casual about being seen up close. If you had a false eye color you'd want somebody to notice.

Colored contacts are a HUGE longshot, but they would have really helped DBC. Could that long bathroom delay be caused by dropping one of them while removing them for the jump?

377
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1026 on: May 03, 2016, 11:37:11 PM »
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If Cooper wore brown contacts and if he actually exited long after the pressure bump was felt, law enforcement would be searching for the wrong guy in the wrong place. That would dramatically reduce his chances of immediate capture and make it unlikely that he would be identified later.

I've always wondered why he was so casual about being seen up close. If you had a false eye color you'd want somebody to notice.

Colored contacts are a HUGE longshot, but they would have really helped DBC. Could that long bathroom delay be caused by dropping one of them while removing them for the jump?

377

Agree - to me he acts a bit fatalistic. But that could be flat out wrong. He leaves evidence, he's seen up close, his voice is even recognisable ... either he expected to escape and had deep cover after that, or he didn't care and was taking his chances. Its that damnable dualism between Expert vs Lucky Schmuck! 
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1027 on: May 04, 2016, 03:30:29 AM »
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Its that damnable dualism between Expert vs Lucky Schmuck!


That pretty much sums up the scope of the discussion.
 

Offline Parrotheadvol

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1028 on: May 04, 2016, 07:30:16 PM »
He wanted the rear door down on take off. That, to some, is evidence that he wanted to bail very early on. That argument can certainly be made.

But, one thing we know for a fact is that Cooper had trouble getting the door open in flight. To the point of basically having someone else do it for him. So, if Cooper is sitting on this plane, and he knows that he don't know how to open the aft door. Does it not make perfect sense that he would want it open before take off? After all, if he can't get it open once the plane is in the air, he is a sitting duck, and he knows this.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 07:31:13 PM by Parrotheadvol »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1029 on: May 04, 2016, 09:34:04 PM »
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He wanted the rear door down on take off. That, to some, is evidence that he wanted to bail very early on. That argument can certainly be made.

But, one thing we know for a fact is that Cooper had trouble getting the door open in flight. To the point of basically having someone else do it for him. So, if Cooper is sitting on this plane, and he knows that he don't know how to open the aft door. Does it not make perfect sense that he would want it open before take off? After all, if he can't get it open once the plane is in the air, he is a sitting duck, and he knows this.

Not quite a sitting duck, imho. He's got Tina to show him how to deploy the stairs. Plus, he still has the bomb, regardless of whether it really was a bomb - it functioned as a bomb. Hence, he still had a degree of leverage to get someone on board to open the stairs.
 

Offline nmiwrecks

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1030 on: May 04, 2016, 09:59:50 PM »
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But, one thing we know for a fact is that Cooper had trouble getting the door open in flight. To the point of basically having someone else do it for him. So, if Cooper is sitting on this plane, and he knows that he don't know how to open the aft door. Does it not make perfect sense that he would want it open before take off? After all, if he can't get it open once the plane is in the air, he is a sitting duck, and he knows this.
I never looked at it that way, but I think you're spot on. 
"If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got." - Henry Ford
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1031 on: May 04, 2016, 10:36:47 PM »
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But, one thing we know for a fact is that Cooper had trouble getting the door open in flight. To the point of basically having someone else do it for him. So, if Cooper is sitting on this plane, and he knows that he don't know how to open the aft door. Does it not make perfect sense that he would want it open before take off? After all, if he can't get it open once the plane is in the air, he is a sitting duck, and he knows this.
I never looked at it that way, but I think you're spot on.


It could be as simple as that. everyone's busy putting labels on Cooper when it's very possible that he was just an ordinary guy.


                                                     "No Experience Required"
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 10:37:09 PM by Shutter »
 

georger

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1032 on: May 04, 2016, 11:29:48 PM »
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He wanted the rear door down on take off. That, to some, is evidence that he wanted to bail very early on. That argument can certainly be made.

But, one thing we know for a fact is that Cooper had trouble getting the door open in flight. To the point of basically having someone else do it for him. So, if Cooper is sitting on this plane, and he knows that he don't know how to open the aft door. Does it not make perfect sense that he would want it open before take off? After all, if he can't get it open once the plane is in the air, he is a sitting duck, and he knows this.

Very good point. And if his bomb is not real, then what?  :)
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1033 on: May 05, 2016, 03:58:06 AM »
Whether the bomb is real or not is a secondary consideration - really just an idle intellectual exercise. The more important fact is that the people responsible for taking action, ie: crew, NWO bosses, FBI bosses, thought it was real, or at the very least made the decision it was more important for safety's sake to treat the bomb as legit. Really, who would take the chance of gambling on the bomb and risking someone's death?

Anyone here willing to take that chance? If you were in charge on November 24, 1971, would you have made a different choice than the one made as recorded in history? If so, please identify yourself and explain your decision-making process, for I consider you a very dangerous person and would like to steer clear of you.
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: General Questions About The Case
« Reply #1034 on: May 05, 2016, 03:59:46 AM »
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It could be as simple as that. everyone's busy putting labels on Cooper when it's very possible that he was just an ordinary guy.


Isn't that just another label, "ordinary guy?"