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Thanks, G, and Sluggo.

What I'm getting here is that First Class was the first four rows, with two seats apiece on each side of the aisle. That make for sixteen seats total in First Class.

But, how were the rows numbered? Does the numbering system start in First Class, with Rows 1, 2, 3, and 4? Then continuing in "Tourist" as 5, 6, 7, etc.?

If so, then the Tourist section is numbered 5 through, what?  There are some problems in the diagram on the pictured 727-100.

I count 17 rows in "tourist" on the port side of the aircraft, which makes for a total of 21 rows in the aircraft when added to the four rows in First Class. So, are the rows in Tourist numbered 5-21?  If so, what happened to Row 18 being the last row? Where was D Cooper sitting?

Note: the rows on the starboard side are off-set by the galley.

This also makes Larry Finegold's statements more troubling. Since Larry was in Row 6, which is by the galley AND he had a conversation with G-Man Johnny, that means the FBI agent had entered into the aircraft about a third of the way, since the forward entry door was in front of Row 1 and the "wind screen." Hence, this was not a minor incursion.

Plus, I don't see any jump seats for the Fight Attendants, other than the two-seater in the forward section. Where was Florence sitting? I thought she was aft of D Cooper, sitting in a jump seat in the aft galley, as is typical in most planes these days - but there was no aft galley in the 727 as pictured, and the only galley was mid-ship.

Lastly, my understanding of the 727-51 designation meant that this plane was part of the Northwest Orient fleet, and was in fact a 727-100 series model.

Bruce, The fellow who tried to board the aircraft to talk to Cooper was an FAA man who thought it would be a good idea to tell Cooper that he could find himself in a lot of trouble if he hijacked the aircraft.  I suspect that Cooper already knew that.  In any event, the individual was removed from the scene.

The -051 was specific to NWA but it was still not a 727-100 aircraft.  If it had been an NWA 727-100 it probably would have had a -151 suffix.

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Thanks, G, and Sluggo.

What I'm getting here is that First Class was the first four rows, with two seats apiece on each side of the aisle. That make for sixteen seats total in First Class.

But, how were the rows numbered? Does the numbering system start in First Class, with Rows 1, 2, 3, and 4? Then continuing in "Tourist" as 5, 6, 7, etc.?

If so, then the Tourist section is numbered 5 through, what?  There are some problems in the diagram on the pictured 727-100.

I count 17 rows in "tourist" on the port side of the aircraft, which makes for a total of 21 rows in the aircraft when added to the four rows in First Class. So, are the rows in Tourist numbered 5-21?  If so, what happened to Row 18 being the last row? Where was D Cooper sitting?

Note: the rows on the starboard side are off-set by the galley.

This also makes Larry Finegold's statements more troubling. Since Larry was in Row 6, which is by the galley AND he had a conversation with G-Man Johnny, that means the FBI agent had entered into the aircraft about a third of the way, since the forward entry door was in front of Row 1 and the "wind screen." Hence, this was not a minor incursion.

Plus, I don't see any jump seats for the Fight Attendants, other than the two-seater in the forward section. Where was Florence sitting? I thought she was aft of D Cooper, sitting in a jump seat in the aft galley, as is typical in most planes these days - but there was no aft galley in the 727 as pictured, and the only galley was mid-ship.

Lastly, my understanding of the 727-51 designation meant that this plane was part of the Northwest Orient fleet, and was in fact a 727-100 series model.

Bruce, The fellow who tried to board the aircraft to talk to Cooper was an FAA man who thought it would be a good idea to tell Cooper that he could find himself in a lot of trouble if he hijacked the aircraft.  I suspect that Cooper already knew that.  In any event, the individual was removed from the scene.

The -051 was specific to NWA but it was still not a 727-100 aircraft.  If it had been an NWA 727-100 it probably would have had a -151 suffix.

Thanks for posting and finally clearing up the large issue on the FBI COWBOY VS FAA FAA FAA ... MAN MAN MAN!
Bruce doesnt believe anything I say.

So, here is the cigar of the airplane. PLEASE PLACE THE SEATS IN THE CORRECT CONFIGURATION. Lets get that issue settle too finally...

G. 


 

Bruce doesn't believe anything I say either but here is another try at explaining the seating configuration.

At the right side of the cabin diagram, you see the aft stairs.  Then moving to the left, which is forward in the cabin, the head is indicated by the "L" and the galley by the "G".

Row 18 is the first row forward of the head and Cooper was seated in 18E which would be just forward of the letter L.  Tina spent some time in the aisle seat 18D and Cooper had his brief case with the bomb in seat 18F.

Mitchell was apparently seated in 18B just forward of the letter G and had his books in the aisle seat 18C and his coat in the window seat 18A.

The seat rows count down moving forward (to the left) in this illustration.  There is no information about additional galleys or heads in the cabin but my guess is that there was another head at the forward end of the cabin near the cockpit door.  I doubt if there was a second galley on the aircraft.

The exact number of rows in the first class section (with four seats across) is not known.  But there was a divider of some type between the first class section and the start of the tourist section (with six seats across).  This divider included at least a curtain and probably a bulkhead of some type.  There may have been a closet type of arrangement for the first class passengers at the very rear of the first class section.  The unwashed passengers in the tourist section would have to put their coats in the overhead bins or on an empty seat (as Mitchell apparently did).

But the first row of seats aft of the side entrance door near the cockpit would be the first row in the first class section and was Row 1.  The row numbers then would count consecutively up until reaching the last row at the rear of seats at the rear of the cabin and that was Row 18.

If there were four rows of first class seats with four seats per row, then there would be 14 rows of tourist class seats with six seats per row.  This would give the aircraft a capacity of exactly 100 passengers, plus a three person cabin crew, and plus a three person cockpit crew.

Im playing catchup tonight - sorry. On another matter ...

Where would you consider the 'head waters of the Washougal' to be? Bruce and I discussed this to some extent over the weekend and I'd like your take on this ... at your convenience. For example, how far east of Amboy would you have to be to be in what could be called the 'headwaters' of the Washougal?

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Im playing catchup tonight - sorry. On another matter ...

Where would you consider the 'head waters of the Washougal' to be? Bruce and I discussed this to some extent over the weekend and I'd like your take on this ... at your convenience. For example, how far east of Amboy would you have to be to be in what could be called the 'headwaters' of the Washougal?

I used a National Geographic topographical software program for the state of Washington for this.  I gave all my paper maps of the area to Meyer Louie in 2013 when we visited Tina Bar.

The Washougal River seems to start as a small stream in a wilderness area at Latitude: 45 deg, 47.552 minutes North, and Longitude: 122 deg, 08.586 minutes West.

Amboy is located at Latitude: 45 deg, 54.725 minutes North, and Longitude: 122 deg, 26.809 minutes West.

In the Portland area (and everywhere else, at least in theory) a minute along a lontitude line is equal to one nautical mile.  But in the Portland area a minute along a latitude line is only about 0.6 nautical mile due to the converging of the longitude lines at the North Pole.

The above means that Amboy is about 7 nautical miles north and about 11 nautical miles west of the point where the Washougal River starts.  Further, the Lewis River runs just south of Amboy.  So in my opinion, anything from Amboy would eventually end up in the Lewis River rather than the Washoughal River.

Does this help?

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"... the large issue on the FBI COWBOY VS FAA FAA FAA ... MAN MAN MAN! Bruce doesnt believe anything I say. He wont search for himself. It is absolutely vital Bruce get this straight for his book.

So, here is the cigar of the airplane. PLEASE PLACE THE SEATS IN THE CORRECT CONFIGURATION. Lets get that issue settled too finally...

G. 

A couple things: first, a credible witness says they encountered an FBI agent who was known to them by name - that has to be considered and pursued, which I am doing.

Secondly, whether there was an FAA official also on board Flight 305 is another question, as is: what he was doing there and who authorized it?

Seriously, R99, if you were J Earl Milnes, the FBI agent in charge of the hijacking at Sea-Tac, would you allow an FAA employee to board the plane and risk provoking hostilities? I find that hard to believe, but if true, it would be a remarkable set of circumstances that adds much more flavor to the whole hijacking enchilada.

As for the seating configurations, I appreciate the many sketches that have been provided here, but none so far seem to have only 18 rows of seats. Am I missing something, or is this "cigar" really hard to nail down at this point.

Lastly, as for whether I "believe" you Robert 99 and Georger, it is more of a question of whether I accept your point of views or if the facts compel me to seek a broader interpretation. I believe the latter is the case.

If Flight 305 had four rows in 1st Class, there must have been 14 rows in "Tourist" if DB Cooper was sitting in the last row and his seat was 18-D/E.

My math then proceeds: 16 seats in 1st Class, (4 rows with four seats total per row) and 108 seats in Tourist, (14 rows with 6 seats per row). That makes a total of 124 seats.

But we need to stick a galley in there somewhere. Was the rear galley the only one? What happened to the mid-ship galley on NWO planes?

I understand that there are many sketches of 727 seat configurations, dependent upon individual airline requirements. I'm just trying to find out the most plausible configuration or layout on Flight 305, and of course, who was sitting where.

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If Flight 305 had four rows in 1st Class, there must have been 14 rows in "Tourist" if DB Cooper was sitting in the last row and his seat was 18-D/E.

My math then proceeds: 16 seats in 1st Class, (4 rows with four seats total per row) and 108 seats in Tourist, (14 rows with 6 seats per row). That makes a total of 124 seats.

But we need to stick a galley in there somewhere. Was the rear galley the only one? What happened to the mid-ship galley on NWO planes?

I understand that there are many sketches of 727 seat configurations, dependent upon individual airline requirements. I'm just trying to find out the most plausible configuration or layout on Flight 305, and of course, who was sitting where.

Bruce, hold everything!

Four rows with four seats each equals 16 seats.  There were 14 rows with six seats each in tourist.  Six multiplied by 14 is 84 and NOT 108!

There were 16 first class seats and 84 tourist seats.  Sixteen added to 84 is exactly 100 and NOT 128.

May I suggest that you sign up with Dr. Meyer Louie, a member of this thread and a professional mathematician, for some classes on grocery store arithmetic.

And, let's not even talk about the fact that many planes skip row 13, so there might only be 94 seats.