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Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 1102419 times)

georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #660 on: April 29, 2015, 03:30:20 PM »
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The best solution to having the stairs down prior to take off would be the element of surprise, they wouldn't know exactly when he jumped. he probably wouldn't have known it would register on the engineer's panel. that's one way of looking at it?

That is your idea not Cooper's! We dont know for sure who Cooper was or what his knowledge was or sure. There is no manual on Cooper!

For all we know Cooper was a Brazilian fresh off the pampas lost in Portland OR USDA! There to sell horsemeat then suddenly needs cash and says: "I think I will hijackie an aeroplane! I have  a grudge against those rich Ameriokans."

Does Tosaw say Cooper intended to bail at Seattle, in his book?


It's possibility, just like any other....

Does Tosaw say Cooper intended to bail at Seattle, in his book?
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #661 on: April 29, 2015, 03:35:53 PM »
I don't know, R99 made that claim....
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #662 on: April 29, 2015, 03:38:32 PM »
According to this article Ratacazak seems to imply that they did signal when he jumped. anyone know about this as fact?

"The F-106 drivers never saw him," Rataczak said. "It was blacker than the ace of spades out there. They just saw a flash of light from us and then he just vanished."

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Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #663 on: April 29, 2015, 04:02:07 PM »
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According to this article Ratacazak seems to imply that they did signal when he jumped. anyone know about this as fact?

"The F-106 drivers never saw him," Rataczak said. "It was blacker than the ace of spades out there. They just saw a flash of light from us and then he just vanished."

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Tosaw's relates an argument between Cooper and Rataczak about taking off with the rear stairs down (but not locked down).  Rataczak claimed that they could not take off with the stairs down and Cooper finally agreed to takeoff with them locked up.  But Cooper then told Tina that he knew they could take off with the stairs down (but not locked).  Basically, this was apparently a communications problem between Cooper and Rataczak who seemed to think that Cooper meant with the stairs locked down.

I have never seen anything previously about the airliner actually flashing their lights when Cooper jumped.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #664 on: April 29, 2015, 04:06:00 PM »
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According to this article Ratacazak seems to imply that they did signal when he jumped. anyone know about this as fact?

"The F-106 drivers never saw him," Rataczak said. "It was blacker than the ace of spades out there. They just saw a flash of light from us and then he just vanished."

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Tosaw's relates an argument between Cooper and Rataczak about taking off with the rear stairs down (but not locked down).  Rataczak claimed that they could not take off with the stairs down and Cooper finally agreed to takeoff with them locked up.  But Cooper then told Tina that he knew they could take off with the stairs down (but not locked).  Basically, this was apparently a communications problem between Cooper and Rataczak who seemed to think that Cooper meant with the stairs locked down.

I have never seen anything previously about the airliner actually flashing their lights when Cooper jumped.


It's mentioned in the transcripts, but that's the only place I've seen this comment made until I read that article.

Did you find anything about Tosaw claiming Cooper wanted to jump early?
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georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #665 on: April 29, 2015, 04:27:54 PM »
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According to this article Ratacazak seems to imply that they did signal when he jumped. anyone know about this as fact?

"The F-106 drivers never saw him," Rataczak said. "It was blacker than the ace of spades out there. They just saw a flash of light from us and then he just vanished."

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Tosaw's relates an argument between Cooper and Rataczak about taking off with the rear stairs down (but not locked down).  Rataczak claimed that they could not take off with the stairs down and Cooper finally agreed to takeoff with them locked up.  But Cooper then told Tina that he knew they could take off with the stairs down (but not locked).  Basically, this was apparently a communications problem between Cooper and Rataczak who seemed to think that Cooper meant with the stairs locked down.

I have never seen anything previously about the airliner actually flashing their lights when Cooper jumped.


It's mentioned in the transcripts, but that's the only place I've seen this comment made until I read that article.

Did you find anything about Tosaw claiming Cooper wanted to jump early?

Whatever Tosaw says or does not say, Rataczak has never said he thought Cooper intended to bail early.

If Cooper planned to bail early why didn't he demand the knapsack he asked for ?  Why didn't he solve the problem of the money early so he could bail early?

What was the point of all of his parameters for extended flight if he's going to bail as soon as they are off the ground? Why doesn't he issue parameters specific to bailing early if that is what he wants and needs?

He has the bomb! He can make them do any damned thing he wants them to do! If its important that he bail early and he tells Tina he knows the 727 can take off with stairs down .... why did he give in? He has the bomb! He can make them do any damned thing he wants them to do!

He's the guy in control - right? He's the guy with the superior knowledge  - yes?  Why is he letting a bunch of amateurs set conditions for him (the expert) when he knows what he wants and needs? Who is in control? Cooper or Rataczak! ??? ;D 

Is he giving in on the knapsack and stairs et cetera because he doesn't want t hurt Rataczak's and Tina's feelings!?
What other myths can we make here?   ;D
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 04:45:39 PM by georger »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #666 on: April 29, 2015, 05:04:27 PM »
Quote
Whatever Tosaw says or does not say, Rataczak has never said he thought Cooper intended to bail early.

Georger, you asked twice if Tosaw said this. that's why I asked R99 again about the claim. I thought I would try and get some opinions about this. nothing more...
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Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #667 on: April 29, 2015, 06:04:38 PM »
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Whatever Tosaw says or does not say, Rataczak has never said he thought Cooper intended to bail early.

Georger, you asked twice if Tosaw said this. that's why I asked R99 again about the claim. I thought I would try and get some opinions about this. nothing more...

I have not seen anything anywhere that made a direct claim that Cooper or anyone else with direct knowledge stated that he wanted to jump early.  That is basically an assumption as to why Cooper wanted the rear stairs unlocked and partially down for takeoff.

I think Tina is quoted by Tosaw as saying that Cooper gave in to Rataczak in order to get the plane in the air.  He was in a hurry to get off the ground.
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georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #668 on: April 29, 2015, 06:17:22 PM »
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Whatever Tosaw says or does not say, Rataczak has never said he thought Cooper intended to bail early.

Georger, you asked twice if Tosaw said this. that's why I asked R99 again about the claim. I thought I would try and get some opinions about this. nothing more...

I have not seen anything anywhere that made a direct claim that Cooper or anyone else with direct knowledge stated that he wanted to jump early.  That is basically an assumption as to why Cooper wanted the rear stairs unlocked and partially down for takeoff.

I think Tina is quoted by Tosaw as saying that Cooper gave in to Rataczak in order to get the plane in the air.  He was in a hurry to get off the ground.

As I originally said, it is Ckret so far as I know, who made the claim about Cooper wanting to jump early near Seattle. Most people cite Ckret as making that claim.

The rest is interesting. I can see why he would want to get off the ground - less chance of being apprehended immediately.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 06:18:05 PM by georger »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #669 on: April 29, 2015, 07:46:07 PM »
This is the part of the transcripts I was talking about, but never heard anything about publicly until I read that article....

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georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #670 on: April 29, 2015, 11:19:11 PM »
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This is the part of the transcripts I was talking about, but never heard anything about publicly until I read that article....

It was mentioned and discussed a bit on DZ.

There is another passage where they are asked to go to the nearest airport after he bails ... also mentioned and discussed a little on DZ.

 :)
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #671 on: April 29, 2015, 11:40:58 PM »
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This is the part of the transcripts I was talking about, but never heard anything about publicly until I read that article....

It was mentioned and discussed a bit on DZ.

There is another passage where they are asked to go to the nearest airport after he bails ... also mentioned and discussed a little on DZ.

 :)


Makes one wonder why they flew all the way to Reno?
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georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #672 on: April 29, 2015, 11:45:03 PM »
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This is the part of the transcripts I was talking about, but never heard anything about publicly until I read that article....

It was mentioned and discussed a bit on DZ.

There is another passage where they are asked to go to the nearest airport after he bails ... also mentioned and discussed a little on DZ.

 :)


Makes one wonder why they flew all the way to Reno?

They said they didn't know if he was gone. Just shy of landing at Reno (in the Transcript) Scott says "Im going back and have a look" ... 
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #673 on: April 29, 2015, 11:48:52 PM »
I like the pilots aboard McCoy's flight. they went right back checking to see if he landed. actually, there are two incidents of checking the back of the plane. it was also said during the beginning of the flight...
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Offline MarkBennett

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #674 on: April 30, 2015, 12:14:19 AM »
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Whatever Tosaw says or does not say, Rataczak has never said he thought Cooper intended to bail early.

Georger, you asked twice if Tosaw said this. that's why I asked R99 again about the claim. I thought I would try and get some opinions about this. nothing more...

I have not seen anything anywhere that made a direct claim that Cooper or anyone else with direct knowledge stated that he wanted to jump early.  That is basically an assumption as to why Cooper wanted the rear stairs unlocked and partially down for takeoff.

I think Tina is quoted by Tosaw as saying that Cooper gave in to Rataczak in order to get the plane in the air.  He was in a hurry to get off the ground.

As I originally said, it is Ckret so far as I know, who made the claim about Cooper wanting to jump early near Seattle. Most people cite Ckret as making that claim.

The rest is interesting. I can see why he would want to get off the ground - less chance of being apprehended immediately.

Thanks.

Does anyone know if Ckret is not allowed to speak on the case any more?  Or does he just choose not to on any public forum?   When he was posting on DZ he was willing to answer questions.

I thought Ckret was done with any public comments on the case.  The only exception was in the 2013 symposium in Tacoma.  Geoff Gray said very coyly (if that is a word) that Larry Carr said he might appear.  He didn't (as far as I know) and Gray wouldn't say why he'd suggest such a thing or if he was just speculating.  It was an odd thing to say.
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