Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 1102423 times)

georger

  • Guest
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #645 on: March 31, 2015, 12:16:03 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Here is an interesting article.....

Due to poor visibility, his descent went unnoticed by the United States Air Force F-106 jet fighters tracking the airliner. He was initally believed to have landed southeast of the town of Ariel by the edge of Lake Merwin, 30 miles north of Portland, Oregon. Later pilot information puts the jump location about 20 miles further west. This marker is at approximately that point.


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


What later pilot information given by who to whom now given to us by Dude Shri Dude Monad ??? There are more experts on DB Cooper than there are Sallys and Heathers in the phone book!
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 12:19:31 AM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #646 on: March 31, 2015, 12:19:17 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Here is an interesting article.....

Due to poor visibility, his descent went unnoticed by the United States Air Force F-106 jet fighters tracking the airliner. He was initally believed to have landed southeast of the town of Ariel by the edge of Lake Merwin, 30 miles north of Portland, Oregon. Later pilot information puts the jump location about 20 miles further west. This marker is at approximately that point.


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


What later pilot information given by who to whom now given to us by Dude Shri Dude Monad ???

Did you notice it seems to be the same site/style that gave cords to the Amboy chute?
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 12:19:38 AM by shutter »
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #647 on: March 31, 2015, 12:20:15 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Here is an interesting article.....

Due to poor visibility, his descent went unnoticed by the United States Air Force F-106 jet fighters tracking the airliner. He was initally believed to have landed southeast of the town of Ariel by the edge of Lake Merwin, 30 miles north of Portland, Oregon. Later pilot information puts the jump location about 20 miles further west. This marker is at approximately that point.


You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login


What later pilot information given by who to whom now given to us by Dude Shri Dude Monad ???

Did you notice it seems to be the same site/style that gave cords to the Amboy chute?

Yes. Run by who?  Is he Whoish?
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #648 on: March 31, 2015, 12:21:20 AM »
Bob Knoss  ;D :D ;) :)
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #649 on: March 31, 2015, 02:33:01 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Bob Knoss  ;D :D ;) :)

here are his jump coordinates ... long way off any flight path. Check this yourself...
« Last Edit: March 31, 2015, 02:34:09 AM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #650 on: April 01, 2015, 05:58:36 PM »
Quote
here are his jump coordinates ... long way off any flight path. Check this yourself...


I noticed right away, plus you can zoom out on that map they provided..it's just a couple miles further west than Knoss always claimed. you might as well just claim the path was somewhere over Egypt  ;D :D
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #651 on: April 02, 2015, 12:09:54 AM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
Quote
here are his jump coordinates ... long way off any flight path. Check this yourself...


I noticed right away, plus you can zoom out on that map they provided..it's just a couple miles further west than Knoss always claimed. you might as well just claim the path was somewhere over Egypt  ;D :D

It will morph to Siberia!
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #652 on: April 29, 2015, 02:12:37 PM »
What do people think about Cooper wanting out of the plane 5 minutes or so into the flight? are we to believe he wanted out early, or was he setting up for the jump. Rataczak then went to 30 degree's on the flaps to stabilize the plane, but this was eating more fuel, then minutes later went back to 15 degree's.

What would be the benefit of jumping this early into the flight? no, it wasn't to get to Bonney Lake  ;D Bernie was waiting for him near Portland  :P

Also at 8:52 they claim the last contact with Cooper was 55 minute ago? that's not 8:05? they seem to be very precise with this time.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 02:18:25 PM by Shutter »
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #653 on: April 29, 2015, 02:47:42 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
What do people think about Cooper wanting out of the plane 5 minutes or so into the flight? are we to believe he wanted out early, or was he setting up for the jump. Rataczak then went to 30 degree's on the flaps to stabilize the plane, but this was eating more fuel, then minutes later went back to 15 degree's.

What would be the benefit of jumping this early into the flight? no, it wasn't to get to Bonney Lake  ;D Bernie was waiting for him near Portland  :P

This is a myth started by Ckret, imho, based on two fragments of evidence: (1) he wanted the door open and the stairs down at takeoff, (b) according to Hancock and the stews he examined the chutes and began putting one on 'like he had done it before' almost as soon as the chutes came on board, although there is nothing to substantiate that in the Transcripts or the Notes to verify the pilots were told 'he wants to bail asap after take off'. Ckret is the author of the Wanted to Jump Early Theory'. 

In contrast to the above, at 7:54 pm there is a definite communication based on observation: "305 - Miss Mucklow said he apparently has the knapsack around him and thinks he will attempt a jump." Oscillations and the bump follow around 8:11-8:13 on the Transcript timeline.

Benefits to bailing early at Seattle? None. That would be the same as jumping right into the hands of the FBI and law enforcement. The plane is not configured for him to jump vs. the long involved procedure Cooper himself begins around 8:05pm asking the plane be slowed and stabilised etc ... so he can jump!

I dont see any evidence that he intended to bail early. I think this is all Ckret's opinion. Later there is concrete evidence he intends to jump, and he jumped then, and the crew reported it.

For me, all of this amounts to some people trying to force ideas on the case, and I don't know why that is. We also have 'someone' saying: "Some short time passed between the moment the airstairs-open indicator light came on up in the cockpit, and when the so-called 'pressure bump' occurred". I guess it depends on what you call a "short time". The Transcripts say the airstair light came on a 7:42 pm: "305 - We now have an aft stair lite on." Then a full 30 minutes later at 8:12 pm  we have: "305: Getting some oscillations in the cabin. Must be doing something with the air stairs." 

A short time later?

He intended to bail early just outside Seattle?

Maybe Cooper screwed up and hijacked the wrong airline and thought he was in Brazil?   >:(  They do say he had olive skin and Flo says he may have been Latin? Ela de Carioca and the Brazil Grill are just south of the Portland Itl Airport! Holly crap! Cooper thought he was in Brazil!  There are endless permutations you can make out of a box of Crayons and a pile of blank paper and a hank of hair.
 You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

 ;) 
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 03:10:06 PM by georger »
 

Robert99

  • Guest
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #654 on: April 29, 2015, 03:03:22 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
What do people think about Cooper wanting out of the plane 5 minutes or so into the flight? are we to believe he wanted out early, or was he setting up for the jump. Rataczak then went to 30 degree's on the flaps to stabilize the plane, but this was eating more fuel, then minutes later went back to 15 degree's.

What would be the benefit of jumping this early into the flight? no, it wasn't to get to Bonney Lake  ;D Bernie was waiting for him near Portland  :P

This is a myth started by Ckret, imho, based on two fragments of evidence: (1) he wanted the door open and the stairs down at takeoff, (b) according to Hancock and the stews he examined the chutes and began putting one on 'like he had done it before' almost as soon as the chutes came on board, although there is nothing to substantiate that in the Transcripts or the Notes to verify the pilots were told 'he wants to bail asap after take off'. Ckret is the author of the Wanted to Jump Early Theory'. 

In contrast to the above, at 7:54 pm there is a definite communication based on observation: "305 - Miss Mucklow said he apparently has the knapsack around him and thinks he will attempt a jump." Oscillations and the bump follow around 8:11-8:13 on the Transcript timeline.

Benefits to bailing early at Seattle? None. That would be the same as jumping right into the hands of the FBI and law enforcement. The plane is not configured for him to jump vs. the long involved procedure Cooper himself begins around 8:05pm asking the plane be slowed and stabilised etc ... so he can jump!

I dont see any evidence that he intended to bail early. I think this is all Ckret's opinion. Later there is concrete evidence he intends to jump, and he jumped then, and the crew reported it.

For me, all of this amounts to some people trying to force ideas on the case, and I don't know why that is. We also have 'someone' saying: "Some short time passed between the moment the airstairs-open indicator light came on up in the cockpit, and when the so-called 'pressure bump' occurred". I guess it depends on what you call a "short time". The Transcripts say the airstair light came on a 7:42 pm: "305 - We now have an aft stair lite on." Then a full 30 minutes later at 8:12 pm  we have: "305: Getting some oscillations in the cabin. Must be doing something with the air stairs." 

A short time later?

He intended to bail early just outside Seattle?

Maybe Cooper screwed up and hijacked the wrong airline and thought he was in Brazil?   >:(  They do say he had olive skin and Flo says he may have been Latin? Ela de Carioca and the Brazil Grill are just south of the Portland Itl Airport! Holly crap! Cooper thought he was in Brazil!
 You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

 ;)

The story about wanting to takeoff with the rear stairs unlocked first appears in Tosaw's 1985 book.  So it wasn't developed by Ckret.
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #655 on: April 29, 2015, 03:06:10 PM »
It's all basic speculation anyway we cut it, but one has to ask if Cooper had all of this knowledge about the plane, why did he open the stairs so early, or wanting the stairs down prior to take off? if you know how to use a gun, you don't fire it early?
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #656 on: April 29, 2015, 03:11:47 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
What do people think about Cooper wanting out of the plane 5 minutes or so into the flight? are we to believe he wanted out early, or was he setting up for the jump. Rataczak then went to 30 degree's on the flaps to stabilize the plane, but this was eating more fuel, then minutes later went back to 15 degree's.

What would be the benefit of jumping this early into the flight? no, it wasn't to get to Bonney Lake  ;D Bernie was waiting for him near Portland  :P

This is a myth started by Ckret, imho, based on two fragments of evidence: (1) he wanted the door open and the stairs down at takeoff, (b) according to Hancock and the stews he examined the chutes and began putting one on 'like he had done it before' almost as soon as the chutes came on board, although there is nothing to substantiate that in the Transcripts or the Notes to verify the pilots were told 'he wants to bail asap after take off'. Ckret is the author of the Wanted to Jump Early Theory'. 

In contrast to the above, at 7:54 pm there is a definite communication based on observation: "305 - Miss Mucklow said he apparently has the knapsack around him and thinks he will attempt a jump." Oscillations and the bump follow around 8:11-8:13 on the Transcript timeline.

Benefits to bailing early at Seattle? None. That would be the same as jumping right into the hands of the FBI and law enforcement. The plane is not configured for him to jump vs. the long involved procedure Cooper himself begins around 8:05pm asking the plane be slowed and stabilised etc ... so he can jump!

I dont see any evidence that he intended to bail early. I think this is all Ckret's opinion. Later there is concrete evidence he intends to jump, and he jumped then, and the crew reported it.

For me, all of this amounts to some people trying to force ideas on the case, and I don't know why that is. We also have 'someone' saying: "Some short time passed between the moment the airstairs-open indicator light came on up in the cockpit, and when the so-called 'pressure bump' occurred". I guess it depends on what you call a "short time". The Transcripts say the airstair light came on a 7:42 pm: "305 - We now have an aft stair lite on." Then a full 30 minutes later at 8:12 pm  we have: "305: Getting some oscillations in the cabin. Must be doing something with the air stairs." 

A short time later?

He intended to bail early just outside Seattle?

Maybe Cooper screwed up and hijacked the wrong airline and thought he was in Brazil?   >:(  They do say he had olive skin and Flo says he may have been Latin? Ela de Carioca and the Brazil Grill are just south of the Portland Itl Airport! Holly crap! Cooper thought he was in Brazil!
 You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

 ;)

The story about wanting to takeoff with the rear stairs unlocked first appears in Tosaw's 1985 book.  So it wasn't developed by Ckret.

You mean Tosaw says Cooper wanted to bail early at Seattle?  ... in his book?

There is no automatic association between wanting the door open and the stair out at takeoff at Seattle and wanting to jump at Seattle ?

There are a whole slate of options here for why Cooper wanted the stairs out at takeoff at SEA. One option is he may have thought it could only be done "on the ground"! He may have been unsure the stairs could be put out once in flight?

« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 03:19:20 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #657 on: April 29, 2015, 03:18:40 PM »
The best solution to having the stairs down prior to take off would be the element of surprise, they wouldn't know exactly when he jumped. he probably wouldn't have known it would register on the engineer's panel. that's one way of looking at it?
 

georger

  • Guest
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #658 on: April 29, 2015, 03:23:03 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The best solution to having the stairs down prior to take off would be the element of surprise, they wouldn't know exactly when he jumped. he probably wouldn't have known it would register on the engineer's panel. that's one way of looking at it?

That is your idea not Cooper's! We dont know for sure who Cooper was or what his knowledge was or sure. There is no manual on Cooper!

For all we know Cooper was a Brazilian fresh off the pampas lost in Portland OR USDA! There to sell horsemeat then suddenly needs cash and says: "I think I will hijackie an aeroplane! I have  a grudge against those rich Ameriokans."

Does Tosaw say Cooper intended to bail at Seattle, in his book?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 03:26:11 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9300
  • Thanked: 1025 times
Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #659 on: April 29, 2015, 03:26:58 PM »
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login
The best solution to having the stairs down prior to take off would be the element of surprise, they wouldn't know exactly when he jumped. he probably wouldn't have known it would register on the engineer's panel. that's one way of looking at it?

That is your idea not Cooper's! We dont know for sure who Cooper was or what his knowledge was or sure. There is no manual on Cooper!

For all we know Cooper was a Brazilian fresh off the pampas lost in Portland OR USDA! There to sell horsemeat then suddenly needs cash and says: "I think I will hijackie an aeroplane! I have  a grudge against those rich Ameriokans."

Does Tosaw say Cooper intended to bail at Seattle, in his book?


It's possibility, just like any other....