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Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 916625 times)

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #615 on: March 18, 2015, 10:15:51 PM »
Robert99, do these cords sound right....

Maylay
N46.25.96  W122.45.57

Canby
N45.18.63  W122.45.95
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Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #616 on: March 19, 2015, 12:03:40 AM »
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Robert99, do these cords sound right....

Maylay
N46.25.96  W122.45.57

Canby
N45.18.63  W122.45.95

Shutter, following are the positions that I obtained from an online source some time ago (I don't have the exact reference available at this moment):

MALAY:  46 degrees, 25.37 minutes North Latitude;  122 degrees, 45.65 minutes West Longitude.

CANBY:  45 degrees, 18.63 minutes North Latitude;  122 degrees, 45.89 minutes West Longitude.

The format above is the same as used on recent Low Altitude IFR Charts.  Please double check the format you used above.

Note that the Canby Intersection is just slightly WEST of the Malay Intersection.  The distance is actually 0.25 minutes of Longitude further WEST.  If this was at the Equator, Canby would be exactly 0.25 Nautical Miles further WEST.  However, since the distance between Longitude lines is less in the Portland area, Canby is roughly 1000 feet (maybe less) WEST of  Malay.

Moving along a Longitude line, the distance between Latitude lines in the Portland area (and ever where else) is exactly 60 Nautical Miles, or one minute of Latitude equals one Nautical Mile.  So Canby is 66.74 Nautical Miles almost exactly straight SOUTH of Malay.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #617 on: March 19, 2015, 10:13:39 PM »
I got the numbers from Skyvector.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #618 on: March 20, 2015, 11:47:15 PM »
I would like to acknowledge the effort Robert99 has put into helping me "learn how to fly" I learn something every time I talk with him through PM's. I've come a long way. I remember not being able to line up with the runway, I'm reminded of the scene from "Airplane" where sweat (water) was rolling off the pilots head by the gallons while coming in for a landing ;D  ;D :D

Hominid has also been a major contributor to the project.....

Thank You... both of you guys  8)
« Last Edit: March 20, 2015, 11:48:29 PM by shutter »
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georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #619 on: March 21, 2015, 01:04:38 AM »
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I would like to acknowledge the effort Robert99 has put into helping me "learn how to fly" I learn something every time I talk with him through PM's. I've come a long way. I remember not being able to line up with the runway, I'm reminded of the scene from "Airplane" where sweat (water) was rolling off the pilots head by the gallons while coming in for a landing ;D  ;D :D

Hominid has also been a major contributor to the project.....

Thank You... both of you guys  8)

Any conclusions or thoughts about the published flight path yet?
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #620 on: March 21, 2015, 07:03:22 AM »
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I would like to acknowledge the effort Robert99 has put into helping me "learn how to fly" I learn something every time I talk with him through PM's. I've come a long way. I remember not being able to line up with the runway, I'm reminded of the scene from "Airplane" where sweat (water) was rolling off the pilots head by the gallons while coming in for a landing ;D  ;D :D

Hominid has also been a major contributor to the project.....

Thank You... both of you guys  8)

Any conclusions or thoughts about the published flight path yet?


Not at the moment. right now I'm working on a video surrounding a different path, or theory. I've went back & forth on the FBI path, but will have a conclusion soon.

Work is slowing my progress down a bit. I've been working 7 days a week getting home at 6 - 6:30 pm. I should be able to relax a little by the middle of this coming week.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #621 on: March 22, 2015, 10:20:05 PM »
I flew from the Maylay intersection down to Canby. I arrived at 23 miles DME in 20:31 minutes, and crossed the Canby intersection at a time of 21:48 minutes. I passed Tina Bar at 13:27 which is 8 miles DME from Battleground. just shy of 8 miles. the clock was starting to turn to 8 miles. the wind blows me off course constantly......
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Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #622 on: March 22, 2015, 11:00:45 PM »
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I flew from the Maylay intersection down to Canby. I arrived at 23 miles DME in 20:31 minutes, and crossed the Canby intersection at a time of 21:48 minutes. I passed Tina Bar at 13:27 which is 8 miles DME from Battleground. just shy of 8 miles. the clock was starting to turn to 8 miles. the wind blows me off course constantly......

The FBI map has the airliner over the Memorial Airport at Toledo at 7:59 PM and about 1 or 2 NM Southwest of the Mayfield/Malay Intersection at 8:00 PM.  The estimated jump time is given at about 8:12 PM plus or minus a minute or so.  So you are in the right neighborhood.

In "real life", when the controller has the airliner fly between to different intersections such as from Malay to Canby, he would give the airliner's cockpit crew directions to fly a given "heading" which would include a correction for the wind from the southwest.  And the controller would modify that heading as needed to keep the airliner on a straight line between those two intersections.  It should be noted that the airliner had only VOR/DME and ADF radio equipment for navigation and would not be able to fly exactly between those two intersections using its own navigation capabilities.

In bypassing Portland on the west side, it is obvious that the controller wanted the airliner back on V-23 as soon as convenient.  The Canby Intersection is about 77 Nautical Miles north of the Eugene VORTAC which is the next southbound VORTAC after BTG.

A question.  When flying on a direct line between the Malay and Canby Intersections, what is the radial, "bearing", or whatever, to the BTG VORTAC at the instant the DME from BTG rolls over to "23.0 Nautical Miles"?  And what is the precise time from the Malay Intersection when this happens (20:31?)?

Also, what is the same information at the instant "23.9 Nautical Miles" rolls over to become "24.0 Nautical Miles"?  There should be approximately a 20 second difference in these times.

« Last Edit: March 22, 2015, 11:05:22 PM by Robert99 »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #623 on: March 22, 2015, 11:22:02 PM »
I will have to do another run for what you are asking. I didn't check any bearings at those points. I just shut the flight down, or I could of reversed the flight for the data.

I'll have to put the distance readings back onto the screen. I removed those features while taking video of the plane. the cockpit doesn't give me any readings in tenths (DME counter/gauge/meter), but the data I put in the upper left corner of the screen does show tenths.

I don't have a Garmin in the 727, but I do have what is called Civa Navigation system, but I don't fully understand it. I haven't used it a lot. 

The actual time from the two points was 21:48



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Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #624 on: March 23, 2015, 12:51:29 AM »
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I will have to do another run for what you are asking. I didn't check any bearings at those points. I just shut the flight down, or I could of reversed the flight for the data.

I'll have to put the distance readings back onto the screen. I removed those features while taking video of the plane. the cockpit doesn't give me any readings in tenths (DME counter/gauge/meter), but the data I put in the upper left corner of the screen does show tenths.

I don't have a Garmin in the 727, but I do have what is called Civa Navigation system, but I don't fully understand it. I haven't used it a lot. 

The actual time from the two points was 21:48


If the airliner was at the Malay Intersection at 7:59 or 8:00 PM and at the Canby Intersection at either 8:20:48 or 8:21:48 PM, then this supports the idea that the airliner made the voice radio call that it was "23 DME south of Portland [VORTAC]" at 8:18 PM per the note in the NWA Seattle records and not at the 8:22 PM time hack on the teletype version of the message.
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georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #625 on: March 23, 2015, 01:38:03 PM »
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I will have to do another run for what you are asking. I didn't check any bearings at those points. I just shut the flight down, or I could of reversed the flight for the data.

I'll have to put the distance readings back onto the screen. I removed those features while taking video of the plane. the cockpit doesn't give me any readings in tenths (DME counter/gauge/meter), but the data I put in the upper left corner of the screen does show tenths.

I don't have a Garmin in the 727, but I do have what is called Civa Navigation system, but I don't fully understand it. I haven't used it a lot. 

The actual time from the two points was 21:48


If the airliner was at the Malay Intersection at 7:59 or 8:00 PM and at the Canby Intersection at either 8:20:48 or 8:21:48 PM, then this supports the idea that the airliner made the voice radio call that it was "23 DME south of Portland [VORTAC]" at 8:18 PM per the note in the NWA Seattle records and not at the 8:22 PM time hack on the teletype version of the message.

That's interesting.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #626 on: March 23, 2015, 06:45:41 PM »
I'm having a heck of a time programming this damn Civa navigation system. I'm going to look at the software on my tablet, and see if I can plot the route from there.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #627 on: March 23, 2015, 08:48:07 PM »
R99, can Long. & Lat. be configured in the Garmin instead of airports?
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Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #628 on: March 23, 2015, 10:15:55 PM »
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R99, can Long. & Lat. be configured in the Garmin instead of airports?

You have got me on that.  I don't know since I have never used a Garmin which is modern and I am not.  But I will see if I can find out something about it.
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Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #629 on: March 23, 2015, 10:46:45 PM »
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R99, can Long. & Lat. be configured in the Garmin instead of airports?

You have got me on that.  I don't know since I have never used a Garmin, which is modern and I am not.  But I will see if I can find out something about it.

Shutter, I can't find anything online that would answer your question.  But my guess is that you should be able to enter Longitude and Latitude in some manner.  I presume that VORTACS and Intersections are entered using their names (for intersections) and three letter identifiers (for the VORTACS).  There should be some means to enter the coordinates for an unnamed point.  Are you sure you are using the correct format for the coordinates?
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