Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 916588 times)

Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #600 on: March 08, 2015, 07:54:17 PM »
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Ok, here are the new numbers....

KIAS..........172.9
KTAS..........197.6
KTGS.........176.8
MPH............199.0

Wind 225 degree's @ 30

Battleground to 23 miles DME 8:31 seconds
Canby Intersection 9:51 seconds

Note that the "estimated" location at 8:14 PM is a mile or two east of the Portland (Battleground) VORTAC.  And that the flight path in question is not direct but does a lot of wandering around which adds additional distance and time to the DME points we have been discussing.  The numbers we have above indicates that it is questionable if the airliner could have been at the 23 DME point (even at 8:22 PM) if it overflew the Portland VORTAC, much less pass a mile or so to its east and then have to fly back west to compensate for that.

The numbers in the above posts are about as good as they are going to get until more accurate information on the airliner's actual locations and times becomes available.  If that happy day ever arrives, the first thing to do is determine the ground speed for each segment possible.

Then in order to determine estimates of the actual cruise speed and wind direction and velocity, some assumptions will have to be made based on simple good judgment.

The information in the actual un-redacted transcripts will determine future steps in the analysis of the flight path.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 07:58:38 PM by Robert99 »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #601 on: March 08, 2015, 08:03:45 PM »
I flew from BG southeastward for about 1.5 minutes, then rolled right (hard) leveled out for a short period, and then rolled left to re-connect with V23 following it down to Canby.....
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #602 on: March 08, 2015, 08:15:13 PM »
I'm rather pleased with the numbers. it's telling me the system is functioning as one would hope a simulator would do. as I always state about X-Plane......It's as real as it gets!
 

Offline MarkBennett

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #603 on: March 08, 2015, 09:37:17 PM »
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I'm rather pleased with the numbers. it's telling me the system is functioning as one would hope a simulator would do. as I always state about X-Plane......It's as real as it gets!
It works really well when you can keep the plane in the air. :D
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #604 on: March 08, 2015, 09:46:28 PM »
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I'm rather pleased with the numbers. it's telling me the system is functioning as one would hope a simulator would do. as I always state about X-Plane......It's as real as it gets!
It works really well when you can keep the plane in the air. :D


Sadly, I think an NFL kicker has more airtime than you did  ;D :D :D :D :D ;D
« Last Edit: March 08, 2015, 09:49:13 PM by shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #605 on: March 08, 2015, 10:23:23 PM »
I ran the path from BG straight down V23 to Canby.

23 miles DME.........7:57
Canby Inters..........9.22

My KIAS was two knots slower (171.0)

KTAS......193.8
KTGS......166.4
MPH.......196.8
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #606 on: March 15, 2015, 11:34:13 PM »
My plane is back from Rome  ;D

 

Offline Olemisscub

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #607 on: March 15, 2015, 11:52:00 PM »
I'm sure this may have already been answered probably multiple times in this thread, but where was the warning label found in regards to the "official" flight path?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #608 on: March 16, 2015, 12:05:25 AM »
Information is from Citizen Sleuths website.....

The placard was recovered at the location shown in Figure 2 which is near Toutle, and 20 miles north of the Ariel Washington jump zone. This location is almost directly under the FBI flight path. Giving the placard a free fall time of nine minutes and a south west cross wind of 18 knots, then the plane would have to been 2.68 miles from where the placard was recovered and 2.6 miles west of V23 [6]. This distance is well within the official 8 mile width for the Victor airway and is 4 miles east of the theoretical Tena Bar flight path. This data places a constraint on the planes position approximately six minutes before the jump and suggests flight #305 was on the original FBI flight path.



 

Offline Olemisscub

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #609 on: March 16, 2015, 12:09:50 AM »
Interesting stuff, thanks!
 

Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #610 on: March 16, 2015, 01:21:11 AM »
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Information is from Citizen Sleuths website.....

The placard was recovered at the location shown in Figure 2 which is near Toutle, and 20 miles north of the Ariel Washington jump zone. This location is almost directly under the FBI flight path. Giving the placard a free fall time of nine minutes and a south west cross wind of 18 knots, then the plane would have to been 2.68 miles from where the placard was recovered and 2.6 miles west of V23 [6]. This distance is well within the official 8 mile width for the Victor airway and is 4 miles east of the theoretical Tena Bar flight path. This data places a constraint on the planes position approximately six minutes before the jump and suggests flight #305 was on the original FBI flight path.





Shutter, I think the data you cited suggests that the airliner was NOT on the original FBI flight path contrary to the last sentence above.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #611 on: March 16, 2015, 05:55:46 PM »
I didn't really read much of it. I was looking for placard data for OMC. it does appear to say that. I'm going to his site to look at the rest of the page.

I'm guessing the green line is supposed to be V23? but it's not written that way...confusing  :-\

Added: the green line is the tina bar theory, and the white line is the FBI flight path, along with the blue line being the Washougal theory.

Photo & information is from Citizen Sleuths.....com

« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 06:03:13 PM by shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #612 on: March 16, 2015, 06:04:39 PM »
Flying on the west side of V23 would make the red crosses line up....
« Last Edit: March 16, 2015, 06:07:47 PM by shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #613 on: March 16, 2015, 06:30:28 PM »
Tom has a nice High resolution pic of the flight path. the red crosses can be seen all the way up to the start. do these represent the minute marks? it appears they do.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #614 on: March 17, 2015, 05:34:44 PM »
I sent Tom an email about the photo. he replied that the plane was showing the wind drift, and wasn't related to the flight path.