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I don't say 305 was east of V-23.  Rather, I say that Bill Rataczak told me 305 was east of V-23.  I also write that BR told me he didn't know where he was.

Personally, after reading what is here, I'm thinking 305 was a lot further west than Bill alluded to. I-5-ish at least.

I think they were trying to fly V23 and generally were. I agree they probably would have avoided Portland going west or east around it, then on to Reno. I think Cooper saw the sky-glow of Vancouver-Portland coming up and bailed. When and where is the question. I think the money at Tina's Bar is like the placard. It indicates he landed in the Columbia Water shed and it is isn;t east in the Washougal basin. I think that is all anyone can say without more data. I wish we could have more information!

Please let us know if the news media up thee covers Blevins 'news release to the FBI'. Or is it a total dud?

During the past 4 years I remember reading a few things that I can't find at this time.

1) A teenage girl was at her family owned airport and listened to the chatter of the hi-jacking on her fathers radio. I think she said she heard the plane overhead when it passed.

2) One of the pilots wanted to dump Cooper in the ocean and he started to fly the plane to the west of their intended route.

Again, I am not sure if this is fact or fiction as I can't find the source. Georger, do you have any recollection of these two points?

I think number 1 above originates with Jo Weber who claims it happened somewhere in the Portland area.

Number 2 above definitely happened.  Co-pilot Rataczak came up with the idea and I think it is discussed in the Seattle ground radio transcripts.  But he was over ruled and the flight did not fly over the Pacific at any point.  Nevertheless, the flight crew was aware of the bomb potential and did not want to fly over populated areas when they could avoid them.

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I don't say 305 was east of V-23.  Rather, I say that Bill Rataczak told me 305 was east of V-23.  I also write that BR told me he didn't know where he was.

Personally, after reading what is here, I'm thinking 305 was a lot further west than Bill alluded to. I-5-ish at least.

I think they were trying to fly V23 and generally were. I agree they probably would have avoided Portland going west or east around it, then on to Reno. I think Cooper saw the sky-glow of Vancouver-Portland coming up and bailed. When and where is the question. I think the money at Tina's Bar is like the placard. It indicates he landed in the Columbia Water shed and it is isn;t east in the Washougal basin. I think that is all anyone can say without more data. I wish we could have more information!

Please let us know if the news media up thee covers Blevins 'news release to the FBI'. Or is it a total dud?

During the past 4 years I remember reading a few things that I can't find at this time.

1) A teenage girl was at her family owned airport and listened to the chatter of the hi-jacking on her fathers radio. I think she said she heard the plane overhead when it passed.

2) One of the pilots wanted to dump Cooper in the ocean and he started to fly the plane to the west of their intended route.

Again, I am not sure if this is fact or fiction as I can't find the source. Georger, do you have any recollection of these two points?

I do recall this and I am sure I can find the original account, with some time. Let me come back to this tonight....
Thanks Vicki..
G

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I'm not so sure they can hear the plane from that altitude, at least not from inside. the planes over my house are at about 2,000. I can hardly hear them inside.

The girl/lady who listened to flight chatter on a radio at an airport:

I dont recall her hearing 305 go over overhead, but I could be wrong.
I do recall her description of the flight comms chatter and the discussion with BR wanting to dump Cooper in the ocean...
I do recall something about 305 being west off (something or someplace)?
I also recall posters at DZ being skeptical of this whole story.

Let's try and find the full account ..... 

(I came here to send Shutter a PM... you will have a PM shortly)

I went ahead and searched the DZ. Farflung dissected the story/fallacy.
It can be found here:http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4131876#4131876


Google map: Location of Shady Acres Airport. You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Marianne Scott Lincoln was the 14 year-old girl who told this story, and I broke it on the Mountain News in 2011 after she told me the tale in August.

She was quite adamant about what she told me. She said she listened on her family's radio in the hanger, and listened to the Seattle Center's side of the conversation. She never heard the cockpit, apparently.

Marianne started the conversation by overhearing me tell another person about my book on DB Cooper, and when I mentioned that the skyjacker wanted $200,000, Marianne jumped in and vociferously argued that Cooper had wanted $400,000 and that there was an argument over the radio. Eventually, the skyjacker was talked down to 200K.

Marianne was resolute about that.

She also said that she thought the plane was far east of V-23 and turned left at Gresham and headed up the Columbia River Gorge. She wasn't absolutely sure on that, but that was her basic recall.

Marianne never told me that she heard 305 pass overhead, even though Shady Acres airport is kind of under the flight path.  The person who did tell me that she heard 305 that night was Dona Elliott, who said she heard it plain as day and estimated it was flying at 3-4,000 feet. Later, Dona told me it was raining so hard that she couldn't see across her street at her home in Amboy.

I see that Farflung had lots of trouble corroborating Marianne's story based on antenna heights and radio reception. I have no knowledge about that, and had a bit o' trouble following his arguments. Maybe I need another cup of coffee or more/less meds.....

As for dumping DB Cooper in the brink, Bill Rataczak told me that was his CLEAR intention, and was talked out of it by Paul Soderlind upon the orders of Donald Nyrop, who simply wanted his plane back without any fuss.

As I recall, she was indoors.  Me, Meyer and Blevs heard her say this. We were all sitting around talking, and she blurted this out. Blevs might even have it on his Ariel video. 2012?

Marianne Scott Lincoln was the 14 year-old girl who told this story, and I broke it on the Mountain News in 2011 after she told me the tale in August.

She was quite adamant about what she told me. She said she listened on her family's radio in the hanger, and listened to the Seattle Center's side of the conversation. She never heard the cockpit, apparently.

Marianne started the conversation by overhearing me tell another person about my book on DB Cooper, and when I mentioned that the skyjacker wanted $200,000, Marianne jumped in and vociferously argued that Cooper had wanted $400,000 and that there was an argument over the radio. Eventually, the skyjacker was talked down to 200K.

Marianne was resolute about that.

She also said that she thought the plane was far east of V-23 and turned left at Gresham and headed up the Columbia River Gorge. She wasn't absolutely sure on that, but that was her basic recall.

Marianne never told me that she heard 305 pass overhead, even though Shady Acres airport is kind of under the flight path.  The person who did tell me that she heard 305 that night was Dona Elliott, who said she heard it plain as day and estimated it was flying at 3-4,000 feet. Later, Dona told me it was raining so hard that she couldn't see across her street at her home in Amboy.

I see that Farflung had lots of trouble corroborating Marianne's story based on antenna heights and radio reception. I have no knowledge about that, and had a bit o' trouble following his arguments. Maybe I need another cup of coffee or more/less meds.....

As for dumping DB Cooper in the brink, Bill Rataczak told me that was his CLEAR intention, and was talked out of it by Paul Soderlind upon the orders of Donald Nyrop, who simply wanted his plane back without any fuss.

Question:

"far east of V-23 and turned left at Gresham and headed up the Columbia River Gorge. She wasn't absolutely sure on that, ... "     

turned left at Gresham?

So how does 305 get back to Lake Oswego south of Portland at approx 8:20-22, to rendezvous with the T33 ?

If it turns left at Gresham and flies 'up the George' how does it get back going south to Reno?

Even if she heard one side of the comms, assuming she heard anything and didn't make the story up!,  that is no guarantee she heard what she thought she heard, got every detail correct, etc etc. Some of the story holds togther; some doesn't.

I got a kick out of Farflungs analysis at the time. 377 joined in. 
 
[edit] East of V23 means what-if-what? Where east of V23? Has ANYONE ever given anything to hang a hat on, 'east of Victor-23'?  Miles? A place? A name? A vector? A hank of hair, a dog, a bone .... anything!?

RB presumably said: east of V-23" and the world comes running. Gold has been discovered east of V23! But, has anyone got any to show?


   

All I've got are stories, Georger. I collect them, and try to make sense of them.

If an eight year-old girl can provide the FBI with their most promising suspect, then who am I to say that a 14 year-old girl all grown up can't provide a little perspective too, especially when it jives with what Himmelsbach and Rataczak told me.  Yes, they could all be zooming me for whatever reasons, and Himms has a pretty lousy track record for Cooper facts, but it is what it is.

Have there ever been any other hijackings where the airplane was LOST?  That only happens in Hollywood ? 

BR's suggested solution of taking Coop out over the ocean seems to imply that Cooper can't see where he's at, isn't asking, isn't looking, etc ? Why would BR think that?   Is this another example of BR "freaking out in the cockpit" ?

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All I've got are stories, Georger. I collect them, and try to make sense of them.

If an eight year-old girl can provide the FBI with their most promising suspect, then who am I to say that a 14 year-old girl all grown up can't provide a little perspective too, especially when it jives with what Himmelsbach and Rataczak told me.  Yes, they could all be zooming me for whatever reasons, and Himms has a pretty lousy track record for Cooper facts, but it is what it is.

Have there ever been any other hijackings where the airplane was LOST?  That only happens in Hollywood ? 

BR's suggested solution of taking Coop out over the ocean seems to imply that Cooper can't see where he's at, isn't asking, isn't looking, etc ? Why would BR think that?   Is this another example of BR "freaking out in the cockpit" ?

Don't forget that there was an overcast at 5000 feet ASL.  Rataczak wanted to climb above that overcast and then go out over the Pacific.  Since Cooper would not have been able to see either the ground or ocean in the middle of the night, he would not have known where the airliner was located.

Yes. Of course if the bomb is real and get detonated then 305 debris is lost .... in the ocean. Better to stay over land, give a few reference points which will bolster the hijacker's sense of security ... and let him bail over a cow lot or .... a BIG RIVER!? When you can't have the ocean maybe a BIG RIVER is close substitute?     Maybe? 

Full cooperation! Miss nothing! Enable the guy in every way. Lot's of hugs and kisses. Slow the plane, speed up the plane, climb, lower, anything he wants. Deploy the sky hooks and air brakes. Hover! Anything he wants and needs. Tina turns at the curtain and pines: "See ya later Big Guy. I love you Baby!". Cooper replies, "See ya later Babe. I will leave something for you at a place I know called "Tina's Bar". It's a beautiful place on the Columbia not too far from here. Now scoot! I have things to do!". A few last minutes comms: "slow, slow, steady steady.". Swoosh and out he goes. Money left at Tina's Bar ... as promised. Kenny can count on Tina - she will keep his secret - the reluctant gay guy wants to turn his life around and make the most out of his stamp collection. He and Tina can retire together .... near Gresham ... and raise chickens and holly hocks!  It's too late for babies. Life is Harsh. But they will have their memories, and many walks together as the suns set over a thousand shared tears and smiles. Tina stops and thinks: "The psychiatrist predicted this would happen for Kenny and me!"