Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 916514 times)

Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #465 on: January 18, 2015, 12:16:58 AM »
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I posted a news report stating Scott had to re-configure the flight path. why would this be needed if they relied on radar? how much did they really know about the path?

They should have known the flight path quite well.  Remember that the Air Traffic Controllers were looking at the aircraft on radar and the precise accuracy depends on how far the aircraft was from a radar station.  The radar being used by the ATC people was the same radar system they used ever day and that information was routinely recorded on tape as well as the voice communications.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #466 on: January 18, 2015, 12:24:15 AM »
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I posted a news report stating Scott had to re-configure the flight path. why would this be needed if they relied on radar? how much did they really know about the path?

They should have known the flight path quite well.  Remember that the Air Traffic Controllers were looking at the aircraft on radar and the precise accuracy depends on how far the aircraft was from a radar station.  The radar being used by the ATC people was the same radar system they used ever day and that information was routinely recorded on tape as well as the voice communications.

I kind of figured that, but what makes Scott decide to re-calculate the path? that's like telling someone you took a different route than the GPS recorded in your car?
 

Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #467 on: January 18, 2015, 02:48:19 PM »
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I posted a news report stating Scott had to re-configure the flight path. why would this be needed if they relied on radar? how much did they really know about the path?

They should have known the flight path quite well.  Remember that the Air Traffic Controllers were looking at the aircraft on radar and the precise accuracy depends on how far the aircraft was from a radar station.  The radar being used by the ATC people was the same radar system they used ever day and that information was routinely recorded on tape as well as the voice communications.

I kind of figured that, but what makes Scott decide to re-calculate the path? that's like telling someone you took a different route than the GPS recorded in your car?

After the money was found at Tina Bar, I think someone leaned on Scott to say that the airliner had "drifted" to the east of the earlier flight path in order to support the original jump area.  This, of course, resulted in the development of the Washougal Wash Down Theory which has proven to be baseless. 
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #468 on: February 06, 2015, 06:21:15 PM »
Can anyone tell me exactly where Victor 23 is?

I understand it is an aerial flight corridor eight miles wide, but in the jump zone what are the boundaries?

As for the flight path, for Cooper to have landed in the Ariel area he must have jumped a few miles south and west to account for his drift back north and east in the winds. If Cooper landed in the Ariel-Amboy area that means he jumped south of Woodland and pretty close to the I-5.

No?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #469 on: February 06, 2015, 06:29:41 PM »
V-23 is the orange line running through the map attached. this map is what they used to give possible landing area's. odds are they didn't take into consideration that Cooper was on the stairs prior to jumping. the bump was felt later than the 8:10/12 mark. putting Cooper south of this location searched.

The 3 red lines are the possible flight path.

Amboy is to far off the present flight path. the chute was found right in the middle of point A & B. which is close to Ariel rather than Amboy.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 07:22:31 PM by shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #470 on: February 06, 2015, 09:18:28 PM »
I rushed the video so it might not be of use  :'( anyway it from about 10,000 at about the 8:12 position. you can see Vancouver lake out the cockpit window, and out side you can see lake Merwin. pilots will catch my AOA pitching down. I was trying to maintain 10,000, but was a couple hundred above  :P

Amboy is about 5.7 nautical miles from this point due east.

« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 09:29:36 PM by shutter »
 

georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #471 on: February 06, 2015, 11:46:38 PM »
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Can anyone tell me exactly where Victor 23 is?

I understand it is an aerial flight corridor eight miles wide, but in the jump zone what are the boundaries?

As for the flight path, for Cooper to have landed in the Ariel area he must have jumped a few miles south and west to account for his drift back north and east in the winds. If Cooper landed in the Ariel-Amboy area that means he jumped south of Woodland and pretty close to the I-5.

No?

Bruce you really amaze me at times. After all these years you weren't paying attention ? ........ If you still don't know where V-23 is, go look at Sluggo's website and search under /Victor 23/ at DZ .... and you will have the answer to your question .... in addition to having charts galore. Better get moving. The Final is next Friday!  ;)   

Maybe Bruce is not alone?  :-\
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 11:49:27 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #472 on: February 07, 2015, 12:39:43 AM »
That would be Vector-23  :P



« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 12:40:37 AM by shutter »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #473 on: February 07, 2015, 05:49:23 PM »
Let me re-phrase my question:

If Victor 23 is eight miles wide, what are it's western and eastern boundaries in the 8:13 pm time frame?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #474 on: February 07, 2015, 06:06:38 PM »
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Let me re-phrase my question:

If Victor 23 is eight miles wide, what are it's western and eastern boundaries in the 8:13 pm time frame?


West would be just shy of I-5.....east is a little harder to get a fix on visual wise. Moulton Falls Park would be above the position. the plane flew about one mile west of Ariel if I'm correct.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2015, 06:44:47 PM by shutter »
 

Offline Bruce A. Smith

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #475 on: February 08, 2015, 04:30:32 PM »
Okay, now we're getting somewhere.

How do you know V-23's western perimeter was just shy of I-5 at 8:13?  Any maps, etc?
 

georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #476 on: February 08, 2015, 05:26:58 PM »
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Okay, now we're getting somewhere.

How do you know V-23's western perimeter was just shy of I-5 at 8:13?  Any maps, etc?

Because ALL OF THE MAPS AND DIAGRAMS!!!! .... ARE ON DROPZONE OR SLUGGOS WEBSITE, as previously posted by a lot of people since 2008. It is now_2015, seven years later.

The maps are generally too big to post here so you will have to go visit these website and download them there.

Here is a section of one map given us by Farflung which shows V23E, V23, and V23W. Do you remember this? Every Victor airway s eight miles wide - four miles wide on each side of the 'center line'.


 
« Last Edit: February 08, 2015, 05:47:57 PM by georger »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #477 on: February 08, 2015, 05:44:57 PM »
It's rather simple. the plane flew over Battleground around that time. go to Google distance maps and measure. I also measured it through the simulator. V-23 runs through Battleground. see attached maps. Robert99, does this sound correct?

Where are you going with this?

My maps are similar to what Georger added to his post....
« Last Edit: February 08, 2015, 05:46:46 PM by shutter »
 

Robert99

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #478 on: February 08, 2015, 06:44:36 PM »
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It's rather simple. the plane flew over Battleground around that time. go to Google distance maps and measure. I also measured it through the simulator. V-23 runs through Battleground. see attached maps. Robert99, does this sound correct?

Where are you going with this?

My maps are similar to what Georger added to his post....

In 1971 (and going from north to south), V-23 did a dog-leg from the Seattle VORTAC (which was located between the parallel runways on the Seattle Airport) to the Mayfield Intersection (near Toledo and now named the Malay Intersection) and then to the Portland VORTAC (now named the Battlefield VORTAC).  From there, V-23 went direct to the Eugene and then Medford VORTACS and continued south.

Also in 1971, a V-23E went direct from the Seattle VORTAC to the Portland VORTAC and then did a dog-leg to the Eugene VORTAC where it apparently ended.  Today, the segment of V-23E between the Seattle and Portland (now Battleground) VORTACS is known as V-495 and it goes from the Portland VORTAC to the Newburg VORTAC and continues off to the southwest.

At the same time, there was a V-23W that started at the Portland (Battleground) VORTAC and went off to the southwest.  It was apparently renamed V-495 when V-23E and V-23W were deleted.

Copies of maps L1 and L2, which contains the information that the crew of the hijacked airliner would have used on the flight from Seattle to Reno, are available on Sluggo's web page.

Also, I sent Fred Poynter at the WSHM all the original disks on those maps, but I don't know if he has actually put them online.  But I don't want to see them again, actually I have printed copies of them which I use, due to all the hoops I had to be jumped through just to get that information.

So if Bruce wants to view the original map disks, perhaps he should pay Fred Poynter a visit.  Otherwise, Sluggo's web page should be sufficient.

 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #479 on: February 08, 2015, 08:37:02 PM »
Here is another look at the supposed dropzone. it's from 10,000, you can see I-5 easily....