Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 984111 times)

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4230 on: March 20, 2021, 01:56:12 PM »
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They appear to have removed the radial turn. that plot appears to now be placed at Pearson making it the 8:17 plot and the following plot after the radial turn became the 8:18 plot. why, I have no idea. if Cooper bailed minutes back the plane could do flips and it really would matter unless you get critical all the way down to when the plane lands.
Yes, you've said this, but my point is that whoever did that, took it upon themselves to do it without evidence on the map. They invented a plot point. In my mind, that's a problem that needs to be reconciled, and I'm not sure the best way to do it.

You said that Pearson was along V23 so maybe you just split the different and put a plot point there like they have. I don't know. I am probably overanalyzing.
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Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4231 on: March 20, 2021, 02:01:08 PM »
Burying the money with a boat is completely different. Obviously he could bury the cash then take the boat to another marina or beach and go about doing whatever he needs to do on land.

It's not like the cash is in the trunk of his car. It's not like the river is teeming with police.

Frankly it's a hell of a lot more plausible than the other options requiring floating logs, and unnoticed bodies, and money that finds its way out of the bank bag and self buries seven months after the skyjacking.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2021, 02:03:33 PM by EU »
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Offline Chaucer

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4232 on: March 20, 2021, 02:03:40 PM »
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Burying the money with a boat is completely different. Obviously he could bury the cash then take the boat to another marina or beach and go about doing whatever he needs to do on land.

It's not like the cash is in the trunk of his car. It's not like the river is teeming with police.

Frankly it's a hell of a lot more plausible than the other options requiring floating logs, and unnoticed bodies, and money that finds its way out of the bank bag.
Was it L'Hommedieu who said that if he were Cooper, he would have used the river as a reference point on where to jump?
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Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4233 on: March 20, 2021, 02:07:45 PM »
Obviously a jump that puts him near Tomahawk Island is problematic considering the pressure bump. Also, I do not believe DBC could see the ground when he jumped therefore it seems unlikely that he could plan much of anything regarding the eventual LZ.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4234 on: March 20, 2021, 02:10:31 PM »
Criminals don't do "plausible" things. that's why they get caught. we don't even know if Cooper survived. odds say he did. taking any transportation will get you out of any area,

Only if it could be proven one could say he had help. it doesn't suggest that but it's not to be dismissed 100%. a boat or car wouldn't be noticed unless the owner found it missing. you drive, float right out of danger. either works, both can go back and get the money with no need to bury..both are equally plausible IMO. neither appeared to have happened..
« Last Edit: March 20, 2021, 02:25:38 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4235 on: March 20, 2021, 02:11:27 PM »
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Obviously a jump that puts him near Tomahawk Island is problematic considering the pressure bump. Also, I do not believe DBC could see the ground when he jumped therefore it seems unlikely that he could plan much of anything regarding the eventual LZ.

I don't see any evidence of the jump being close to the river..
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4236 on: March 20, 2021, 02:12:49 PM »
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Obviously a jump that puts him near Tomahawk Island is problematic considering the pressure bump. Also, I do not believe DBC could see the ground when he jumped therefore it seems unlikely that he could plan much of anything regarding the eventual LZ.

I don't see any evidence of the jump being close to the river..

Neither do I. In fact, I don't see any evidence of the jump being anywhere other than near Tena Bar.
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4237 on: March 20, 2021, 02:23:09 PM »
Having Bill at the conference will hopefully get some real facts into things. I think prior to his coming to the conference a package should be sent to him with the transcripts, the Air Force map (both) specific 302's surround statements from the crew or what they said so he is not blasted with questions he doesn't know about or seen.

This way, when a question is asked he can say "I read that and disagree or agree" things to bring him somewhat up to speed. (ground speed, of course)  :rofl:
 

Offline Chaucer

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4238 on: March 20, 2021, 02:30:29 PM »
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Obviously a jump that puts him near Tomahawk Island is problematic considering the pressure bump. Also, I do not believe DBC could see the ground when he jumped therefore it seems unlikely that he could plan much of anything regarding the eventual LZ.

I don't see any evidence of the jump being close to the river..
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. With that said, I'll fully admit that there is no smoking gun or concrete evidence that puts Cooper near the river.

However, I think there is strong circumstantial evidence that suggests it's possible. I hope Bill can clear some things up in that regard too.

I'll try to compile the evidence I have and post it here.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4239 on: March 20, 2021, 02:53:41 PM »
Bill himself appears to have given a time of 8:13...you can't place the plane near the river with that time frame. the plane would have to travel an average speed above the sweet spot calculated for optimal distance. we have documented speeds ranging from 155 to 180 in one entry. the others were multiple times with 165 and 170. 330 knots will damage the landing gear. if the radar plots are not accurate then you can't rely on them.

The simulation was able to match a lot of the parts of the flight. IMO, it doesn't answer any questions. lets say I found the exact 8:13 spot which was close to where the map shows it to be. they searched that area, now what? things start skewing passing Battle ground. I reach 7 minutes prior to crossing the river. plot or no plot.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2021, 02:54:36 PM by Shutter »
 

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4240 on: March 20, 2021, 02:54:06 PM »
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Obviously a jump that puts him near Tomahawk Island is problematic considering the pressure bump. Also, I do not believe DBC could see the ground when he jumped therefore it seems unlikely that he could plan much of anything regarding the eventual LZ.

I don't see any evidence of the jump being close to the river..
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. With that said, I'll fully admit that there is no smoking gun or concrete evidence that puts Cooper near the river.

However, I think there is strong circumstantial evidence that suggests it's possible. I hope Bill can clear some things up in that regard too.

I'll try to compile the evidence I have and post it here.

I've read the "absence of evidence is not evidence" line before. I disagree. It can be construed as circumstantial in many cases.

Here's why.

First, in the case of identifying the wrong LZ, you will always find nothing. Therefore, not finding anything looks exactly like what one would expect if they're searching in the wrong area.

Second, the fact that the area has been walked over for decades and nothing has been found is problematic. For example, if the FBI theory was that DBC jumped over downtown Portland, and after 50 years not a shred of evidence had been found, I think it would be reasonable to deduce that the theory is wrong.

In my opinion, both of the above points are applicable in this case as it pertains to the FBI Flight Path and LZ.

On a separate issue...what is your working theory here? Is it that DBC jumped and landed near the Columbia River? Near PDX?
Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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Offline georger

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4241 on: March 20, 2021, 03:04:40 PM »
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Obviously a jump that puts him near Tomahawk Island is problematic considering the pressure bump. Also, I do not believe DBC could see the ground when he jumped therefore it seems unlikely that he could plan much of anything regarding the eventual LZ.

I don't see any evidence of the jump being close to the river..
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. With that said, I'll fully admit that there is no smoking gun or concrete evidence that puts Cooper near the river.

However, I think there is strong circumstantial evidence that suggests it's possible. I hope Bill can clear some things up in that regard too.

I'll try to compile the evidence I have and post it here.

Well ... whether you know it or not progress is being made finally. Nobody now seriously thinks that CPR bailed in the lake Merwin area. For whatever reason Wm Scott firmly believed that, or should I say 'that was his public stance'. Scott never gave any reasons! And so far as I know neither Rczk or Andy would ever be nailed down to a specific time or place for CPR bailing.

Today we are talking 8:10-8:xx just north of Vancouver. (We were in the suburbs of Portland ... we could see the lights of coming up ...). Oscillations vs Bump is being discussed seriously. FJ is speculating 'the largest oscillation was the bump'. Dudeman has previously specified the causes of oscillations'. The Heisson Store robbery is finally on the table; likewise the rail line which comes down and goes just east of Tina Bar. FJ has produced an actual spread sheet of FP error and a brand new rounded graphic of the FBI flight path accounting for error! That's a first. ......................................... that's progress!     
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4242 on: March 20, 2021, 03:07:02 PM »
I reach the 8:16 location at 6:51. 6 minutes and 51 seconds into the flight. that's almost 7 minutes at the 8:16 location.
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4243 on: March 20, 2021, 03:36:03 PM »
What do we conclude with this?
 

Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4244 on: March 20, 2021, 03:38:37 PM »
Flyjack, you need to place markers and times on the map...flying the path only shows one wide turn. 8:16 to the river location. the talk about wild turns is a ploy to deflect against the map. 8:12 to 8:13 are not huge or wide rolls. the lines you have drawn will remove the heavy roll at the 8:16 location.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2021, 03:45:28 PM by Shutter »