You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

It doesn’t matter what we feel “comfortable” with or what we “think” or what we “accept”. It’s what we can prove.

And we can’t prove 8:13 is the jump time. All we can prove is that the jump occurred sometime after 8:12. It’s possible he jumped directly after the oscillations. It’s also possible it was several moments or minutes after.

It’s all guesswork.

It's not guess work. The exact time was noted by Soderlind which Rataczak says was 8:13. Moreover, the FBI has used the same time. Their search was based off of oscillations starting at 8:10 and running through to pressure bump at 8:13. Regardless, you are nowhere near the Columbia if you roll with the FBI Flight Path.

1. There is a difference between “oscillations” and “pressure bump”.

2. There’s no mention of a “pressure bump” in the transcripts or any time of a pressure bump in the 302s.

3. Rataczak has also given a range between 8:10 and 8:20.

So, yes, I think it’s guesswork. More investigation is needed, and hopefully more 302s and more information from Rat and others will allow us to zero in on an exact time.

Let's not play semantics here.

1) The oscillations refer to Cooper's time on the stairs as he was descending. Again Rataczak told me he could tell as he was walking down the stairs because they were lowering further into the airstream and creating more of a disturbance.

The term "pressure bump" is just a term used to denote the jump. Again, Rataczak referred to this being like a "diving board" springing back.

2) We know perfectly well what transpired whether the files use the term pressure bump or not.

3) You have to understand the context of the conversation relating the last communication with the jump. The important point being that this was during an interview which, by definition, was after the event. This doesn't change that during the event itself the precise time was noted.

No guess work here. We know what happened and when. The question is, where.

Even with a time frame it's guesswork. exact coords and time would not be guess work if this were the case. it's always been reported as the best known area where Cooper bailed. Bill wasn't even certain himself. he's on record stating they didn't know if Cooper was still on the plane. lots of confusion surrounds all of this.

One other thing:

Bill told me--as he has stated before--that the moment they felt Cooper jump (which he described as a diving board-type event) he (Bill) radioed Minneapolis and told them to mark the time/spot. Therefore, a precise time for the jump should have been recorded by Minneapolis.

Here is what is recorded in the teletype transmissions through the ARINC system.  The radio link would probably record these short messages about one to two minutes before the times listed in the teletype print outs.

8:05 PM - The flight crew reported that they had just talked to Cooper over the PA system and he said everything was okay.  This was the last contact with Cooper.

8:12 PM - The flight crew reported getting some oscillations in the cabin.  (He) must be doing something with the air stairs.

An entry in the "FBI Notes" states that 8:11 PM is probably the best time for Cooper jumping.

If there were no further oscillations, then Cooper jumped about 8:11 PM or 8:12 PM.

The above are plain documented facts and there is nothing to contradict them.  Even if Rataczak said some decades later that Cooper didn't even jump at all, these times are still valid.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

One other thing:

Bill told me--as he has stated before--that the moment they felt Cooper jump (which he described as a diving board-type event) he (Bill) radioed Minneapolis and told them to mark the time/spot. Therefore, a precise time for the jump should have been recorded by Minneapolis.

Here is what is recorded in the teletype transmissions through the ARINC system.  The radio link would probably record these short messages about one to two minutes before the times listed in the teletype print outs.

8:05 PM - The flight crew reported that they had just talked to Cooper over the PA system and he said everything was okay.  This was the last contact with Cooper.

8:12 PM - The flight crew reported getting some oscillations in the cabin.  (He) must be doing something with the air stairs.

An entry in the "FBI Notes" states that 8:11 PM is probably the best time for Cooper jumping.

If there were no further oscillations, then Cooper jumped about 8:11 PM or 8:12 PM.

The above are plain documented facts and there is nothing to contradict them.  Even if Rataczak said some decades later that Cooper didn't even jump at all, these times are still valid.

Again, “oscillations” are mentioned, not “pressure bump”. The oscillations were literally defined as “doing something with the stairs”, not “jumping”.

The oscillations didn’t necessarily end at 8:12. That’s simply when they weren’t mentioned again. Cooper could have jumped - thereby causing a pressure bump - any time after 8:12.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

One other thing:

Bill told me--as he has stated before--that the moment they felt Cooper jump (which he described as a diving board-type event) he (Bill) radioed Minneapolis and told them to mark the time/spot. Therefore, a precise time for the jump should have been recorded by Minneapolis.

Here is what is recorded in the teletype transmissions through the ARINC system.  The radio link would probably record these short messages about one to two minutes before the times listed in the teletype print outs.

8:05 PM - The flight crew reported that they had just talked to Cooper over the PA system and he said everything was okay.  This was the last contact with Cooper.

8:12 PM - The flight crew reported getting some oscillations in the cabin.  (He) must be doing something with the air stairs.

An entry in the "FBI Notes" states that 8:11 PM is probably the best time for Cooper jumping.

If there were no further oscillations, then Cooper jumped about 8:11 PM or 8:12 PM.

The above are plain documented facts and there is nothing to contradict them.  Even if Rataczak said some decades later that Cooper didn't even jump at all, these times are still valid.

Again, “oscillations” are mentioned, not “pressure bump”. The oscillations were literally defined as “doing something with the stairs”, not “jumping”.

The oscillations didn’t necessarily end at 8:12. That’s simply when they weren’t mentioned again. Cooper could have jumped - thereby causing a pressure bump - any time after 8:12.

The oscillations stopped when Cooper jumped and, conversely, Cooper jumped just a second or two before the oscillations stopped.

The airliner was 23 DME miles (nautical miles) south of what is now named the Battleground VORTAC, and on the edge of V-23, at 8:18 PM.  Since the airliner had a ground speed of about 3 Nautical Miles per minute, this does not fit into your theory of a late jump or even jumping north of the Columbia River.

My understanding is that the oscillations lasted one to two minutes. Again, this is when DBC is making his way along the airstairs and any wait time at the end of the airstairs.

The oscillations are only mentioned in the 302s form 8:10 to 8:12. That doesn’t mean that’s how long they lasted.

The oscillations are followed by a pressure bump which denotes when DBC jumped.

The semantics I'm referencing relates to use of the term "pressure bump." Whether the FBI used the term or not is irrelevant. The fact is that the pressure literally did bump thereby creating a sensation in the ears and a bouncing of the dials on the instrument panel.

I’m not arguing that point. I am merely pointing out the difference between oscillations and a pressure bump. The oscillations are not when Cooper jumped. The pressure bump is. There is not time for the pressure bump, therefore no time for the jump.

Rataczak states the pressure bump occurred at 8:13. Therefore, it seems very likely that Cooper actually jumped during the 8:13 minute. If that's not convincing enough, well then okay and it's certainly your prerogative.

He also later states that it was 5 to 10 minutes after last contact and then later 10 to 15 minutes after last contact. If you want to believe one data point and not others, then that’s certainly you’re prerogative.

My point remains that we do not know exactly when Cooper jumped.

He also later states that it was 5 to 10 minutes after last contact and then later 10 to 15 minutes after last contact. If you want to believe one data point and not others, then that’s certainly you’re prerogative.

My point remains that we do not know exactly when Cooper jumped.

You are still not understanding my point. Let me try one more time.

All he was recounting was that the time between the two events was 5-10 minutes. This is because at that point no one had reported to him that the last communication was at 8:05 and that his "mark your maps" comment was at 8:13.

It was merely a general reference of the time between the two events. It does not mean that the authorities hadn't marked precisely the time of each of the two events.

That's as far as I can go with this.

You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

He also later states that it was 5 to 10 minutes after last contact and then later 10 to 15 minutes after last contact. If you want to believe one data point and not others, then that’s certainly you’re prerogative.

My point remains that we do not know exactly when Cooper jumped.

You are still not understanding my point. Let me try one more time.

All he was recounting was that the time between the two events was 5-10 minutes. This is because at that point no one had reported to him that the last communication was at 8:05 and that his "mark your maps" comment was at 8:13.

It was merely a general reference of the time between the two events. It does not mean that the authorities hadn't marked precisely the time of each of the two events.

That's as far as I can go with this.

Let me add my two cents to this.  Cooper is going to get off those stairs as fast as possible.

The wind chill factor alone was as much as 30 or 40 degrees below zero and he was simply not dressed to handle anything close to that.  There was no reason for him to do anything except walk down the stairs and jump.  He could have disposed of the brief case and anything else he wanted to throw away without causing any significant oscillations on the stairs.

There is no rational basis for a jump time outside the 8:11 to 8:13 time frame.