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Author Topic: Flight Path And Related Issues  (Read 983920 times)

Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4110 on: March 14, 2021, 07:52:55 PM »
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East and west for one between the pilot and copilot. one says west over Woodland while the other says east of V23..

I really don't know. I'm not sure precisely what Rataczak formerly stated about east of V23 or at what point.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4111 on: March 14, 2021, 07:53:49 PM »
I believe he has been quoted flying further east than 2 miles off center of V23...I think Bruce has the answer to that one..
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Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4112 on: March 14, 2021, 07:56:05 PM »
To be clear, Rataczak didn't say anything to me about east or west of V23. He just told me he was flying the jet because they didn't know what to expect with the airstairs down. He said they were in constant contact with Soderlind as well as Soderlind had patched in a Boeing test pilot (maybe Wallick) somehow.
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Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4113 on: March 14, 2021, 07:56:51 PM »
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I believe he has been quoted flying further east than 2 miles off center of V23...I think Bruce has the answer to that one..

Well, when I speak to him next I'll ask him.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4114 on: March 14, 2021, 07:59:26 PM »
It's troubling things we read that cause problems. we have to rely on what is reported by the witnesses. when you read different events about two people in the same event. it causes problems reaching a conclusion. hopefully, we can weed all of this out. I don't think anyone expected you to resolve this in 70 minutes...
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Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4115 on: March 14, 2021, 07:59:53 PM »
Remember, according to Rataczak Cooper jumped before they hit the suburbs of Portland--I'm certain he meant Vancouver which is arguably a suburb of Portland.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4116 on: March 14, 2021, 08:02:15 PM »
Vancouver is a city on the north bank of the Columbia River in the U.S. state of Washington. It is the largest suburb of Portland, Oregon. Incorporated in 1857, Vancouver had a population of 161,791 as of the 2010 U.S. census, making it the fourth-largest city in Washington state.
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Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4117 on: March 14, 2021, 08:02:33 PM »
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It's troubling things we read that cause problems. we have to rely on what is reported by the witnesses. when you read different events about two people in the same event. it causes problems reaching a conclusion. hopefully, we can weed all of this out. I don't think anyone expected you to resolve this in 70 minutes...

I got an answer to the auto-pilot question, his viewing of the FBI Flight Map as well as his recollections of the path, and the airstairs on takeoff BS. I call that pretty damn good.
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4118 on: March 14, 2021, 08:08:07 PM »
As I mentioned about conflicting reports. it's documented twice they used the autopilot..this is what's disturbing when reading the files.
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Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4119 on: March 14, 2021, 08:20:08 PM »
For what it's worth, he immediately told me he was hand flying at the point and why. And, it makes sense.
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Offline Chaucer

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4120 on: March 14, 2021, 08:36:06 PM »
It doesn’t matter what we feel “comfortable” with or what we “think” or what we “accept”. It’s what we can prove.

And we can’t prove 8:13 is the jump time. All we can prove is that the jump occurred sometime after 8:12. It’s possible he jumped directly after the oscillations. It’s also possible it was several moments or minutes after.

It’s all guesswork.
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Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4121 on: March 14, 2021, 08:40:43 PM »
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It doesn’t matter what we feel “comfortable” with or what we “think” or what we “accept”. It’s what we can prove.

And we can’t prove 8:13 is the jump time. All we can prove is that the jump occurred sometime after 8:12. It’s possible he jumped directly after the oscillations. It’s also possible it was several moments or minutes after.

It’s all guesswork.

It's not guess work. The exact time was noted by Soderlind which Rataczak says was 8:13. Moreover, the FBI has used the same time. Their search was based off of oscillations starting at 8:10 and running through to pressure bump at 8:13. Regardless, you are nowhere near the Columbia if you roll with the FBI Flight Path.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2021, 08:42:22 PM by EU »
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Offline Shutter

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4122 on: March 14, 2021, 08:42:06 PM »
It's conflicting. anyway you look at the data. I understand Bill's point but was that the conclusion throughout the flight? they made a statements that is was used most of the time in Washington and further south. it also documents it being procedure. he needs to clear up the confusion. it's not damaging proof of anything so why the conflicting statements?
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Offline Chaucer

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4123 on: March 14, 2021, 08:48:13 PM »
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It doesn’t matter what we feel “comfortable” with or what we “think” or what we “accept”. It’s what we can prove.

And we can’t prove 8:13 is the jump time. All we can prove is that the jump occurred sometime after 8:12. It’s possible he jumped directly after the oscillations. It’s also possible it was several moments or minutes after.

It’s all guesswork.

It's not guess work. The exact time was noted by Soderlind which Rataczak says was 8:13. Moreover, the FBI has used the same time. Their search was based off of oscillations starting at 8:10 and running through to pressure bump at 8:13. Regardless, you are nowhere near the Columbia if you roll with the FBI Flight Path.

1. There is a difference between “oscillations” and “pressure bump”.

2. There’s no mention of a “pressure bump” in the transcripts or any time of a pressure bump in the 302s.

3. Rataczak has also given a range between 8:10 and 8:20.

So, yes, I think it’s guesswork. More investigation is needed, and hopefully more 302s and more information from Rat and others will allow us to zero in on an exact time.
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Offline EU

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Re: Flight Path And Related Issues
« Reply #4124 on: March 14, 2021, 08:52:52 PM »
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It's conflicting. anyway you look at the data. I understand Bill's point but was that the conclusion throughout the flight? they made a statements that is was used most of the time in Washington and further south. it also documents it being procedure. he needs to clear up the confusion. it's not damaging proof of anything so why the conflicting statements?

I don't know if Bill made such statements or not--there is nothing in his 302 from November 24-25. That said, the jet was probably on autopilot from PDX to SEA which may account for any prospective misunderstanding.
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Some men see things as they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?

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